Cryovac ??

Submitted: Monday, May 28, 2007 at 13:03
ThreadID: 45983 Views:5391 Replies:13 FollowUps:9
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Haven't seen this exact topic before but here goes ; have bought a vacuum seal machine and would like to know how long the food will last in the bottom of my 60ltr Waeco set to 0 deg..

Any advantage to freeze it 1st ie; will it only extend it by a day or so ??

I'm hopeful that it will last 3 weeks !! Or am I way off the mark ??
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Reply By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 13:14

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 13:14
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Steve
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Reply By: Member - John G- Monday, May 28, 2007 at 13:15

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 13:15
G'day Gronk

Our rule of thumb - from the butcher - is:

1. Up to 6 weeks for red meat without bones
2. Up to four weeks for read meat with bones
3. Forget about chicken - even though it is said to be OK up to two weeks, it smells after about one and you have to be brave to to cook / eat it.

We don't freeze it

Cheers
John
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Follow Up By: LCRUZA (VIC) - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 13:54

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 13:54
We find chicken is OK as long as there is no skin or bones!!

Also we always drain and dry the meat and then let it breath for 15 minutes before cooking to remove the strong smell and taste.

Ron
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Reply By: Peter McG (Member, Melbourne) - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:20

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 14:20
remember that you're machine will not cryovac the meat as would a butcher using a cryovac machine which replaces air with nitrogen. Will certainly do 3 weeks if cryovacd. May do with just vacuum but will certainly take up less space.

Peter
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AnswerID: 242908

Follow Up By: pprass - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 15:34

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 15:34
Yes that is my understanding as well. I had a look at the specs of one of those home machines and it only extends the life of meat by 3 days! What's the use of that?
On the other hand I had my meat vacuum sealed by a butcher and it lasted 3 weeks and I think would have gone another 3.

Peter
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Follow Up By: ross - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 15:56

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 15:56
Peter only wealthy butchers have nitrogen machines. Most have a small single chamber machines with a built in heat sealer.

pprass ,Maybe what you read was a mistake.Once you remove as much air as possible all red meat should keep for at least a month at 0 .

As long as a small machine has enough vaccum and can seal the bag it should work as well as a butchers machine.
Read the specifications on vaccum when comparing machines

Sometimes they take a little practice. Putting the meat in a bag that suits the shape of the meat helps.
If its tight anywhere it will make it harder for the machine to suck all the air out.
Sometimes yuo can help by massaging the air out.

Once packed the bags containing the meat should be handled carefully not dropped or thrown or squashed.

I went away a few weeks back for with meat that was not vaccum packed.
It stayed fresh in the bottom of my Waeco unfrozen but frosty for 10 days .

Red meat does not cause the same types of problem white meats like fish and chicken do.
For red meat to make you sick it needs to be bright green and undercooked.
The taste would prevent you from eating
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 22:15

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 22:15
Most butchers Cryovac machines have gas flush capabilitys I have seen although there are probably more types around now. Never seen them do it though - there is little point. It works better with stuff you dont want to crush such as pre pack salads, coleslaws.

The bright green you speak of is Pseudamonis and an Aerobic spiolage bacteria so you wont get it on vacume packed meat. red meat vac packed and not stored corectly could give you botulism without even appearing off as it thrives in the absence of oxygen
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Follow Up By: howie - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 22:41

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 22:41
also, people are using the word cryovac as though it is different from vacuum.
cryovac is a registered trademark!!!!!!
most butchers only vacuum seal your food that i've seen.
my sunbeam seems to do as good a job as the butcher, but i try to pack the bag according to the contents.
seems as if there different grades of bags, which no-one mentions.
ie 40 or 60 micron bags. (people should check the 'cheap' bags)
davoe, i'm assuming by your post that when vacuum packing solid material like meat no gas is used (as all the 'air' will be sucked out)
is the 'gas' only put when sealing loose stuff or stuff with cavities?

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Follow Up By: howie - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 22:46

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 22:46
ps also disagree with the bloke who won't take chicken.
i skin, prepare and dice mine and it has lasted for 2 weeks in the engel.
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Follow Up By: obee - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:42

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:42
its usually the raw fat on meat that goes rancid and sends the meat off. I agree with the removal of the skin from chicken for this reason.

Yachties have been known to keep cooked meat immersed in lard (poured on hot) for extended periods if thats any use to anyone. They just pull a steak out an heat it up in the pan.

If in doubt with meat your nose is pretty reliable. People used to trim the rotten bits off and eat the rest in the olden days. (Mind you they used to get pretty crook too)

Cooked meat will last heaps longer of course and there is no reason yoou cant cyrovac a stew, is there?

Anyway we used cyro'ed meat from the butcher last year and some of it got fairly warm at times and still stayed the course three weeks and we live to tell the tale.

Owen
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Reply By: Outa Bounds - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 16:33

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 16:33
We purchased a cheap home vac machine recently. The vacuum on it is not as powerful as other models, you pay for what you get but it will give us a good idea of how useful we will find one anyway.

I found it quite funny how most vac machines (even the dear ones) list how long food normally lasts and then how long it lasts vacuum packed & frozen - why on earth they don't state the refrigerated life I have no idea - well apart from marketing.

Anyway on my el-cheapo I found it said somewhere that you can expect stuff such as red meat to keep for 3 x longer than normal if refrigerated. So steak which may normally keep in the fridge for 3 days should keep for 9 days. I did some celery and had it in the fridge for a few weeks or something and it hadn't gone real soft yet.

However I have found that if you put frozen meat in the bottom of the fridge (engel etc) it generally takes a couple of days or more to fully defrost anyway.

If you get the butcher to vacuum pack it then you can be confident of it lasting a few weeks or more I guess, their machines would be a lot more powerful and most certainly suck all the air out compared to say my cheapie which could be iffy.

AnswerID: 242930

Reply By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 17:06

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 17:06
Usually find red meat (beef) lasts 4 to 6 weeks vacumn packed by a butcher.
Running engel on about 3 deg., meat in bottom.
Don't like my milk, tomatoes etc or beer getting frozen.
We only open the fridge 2 or at most 3 times a day.
We don't drop in a six pack of beer to cool down for the night either.
In other words we try and keep a constant temp as much as possible in the fridge.
Chill the beer before you go or buy it chilled as you go, and replace as you use it, or get a seperate small drinks fridge.
We don't run the fridge on freezer either, better battery life that way.
AnswerID: 242933

Reply By: Member -Dodger - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 17:39

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 17:39
Yes we have had the Sunbeam one for 2 yrs and find it great.
Red Meat up to 5 weeks at normal refridgeration IE 3%
Red meat with bone 4 weeks. As above.
Chicken 3 weeks as above.
Fish 5weeks however this is fresh caught and filleted by ourselves.

GO ahead and get one .
The other plus is no mess in engel or any other fridge.
Must stress when about to cook open package and let rest for 15min at least before cooking.
Also many vegetables can be vac packed to extend life.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

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AnswerID: 242937

Reply By: Member - David A (QLD) - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 19:18

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 19:18
Hi Gronk,

we have the same fridge but set it at 2deg. We get about three weeks out of butcher vacuum sealing (not cryovac) for things llike steak, roasts. Tried a roast at 3 1/2 weeks and it wasn't quite right.

Cheers
David
AnswerID: 242959

Reply By: Member - Brian H (QLD) - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 19:40

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 19:40
Don't want to steal your thread ......... I assume you are heading away from towns for sometime to bother with vac sealing your meat. I usually just buy mine where i can as I move around. I do understand your reason, I have considered getting one myself but keep talking myself out of getting one. I keep thinking is it worth it or is the meat that expensive out bush.

My next trip I was looking at buying meat and veg at say either Birdsville Marree Lyndhurst Innaminka Eulo as having a place to buy meat and veg if needed. Am i wrong?

The only thing i can say is watch the bones in meat don't punchure the bag while at the bottom of the fridge and beware of perservative or marinated meats I beleive they don't last that long.

Brian
AnswerID: 242964

Follow Up By: lynxxy - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 21:21

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 21:21
Its very odd to me....

You need to go to the butchers to get the meat, so get them to cryovac it while youre there. I very doubt that your meat would last less than 3 weeks. Most butchers let you put in an order, and they are usually open available to pick up the meat as early as 5am.

The meat you buy out west is usually fantastic. Nothing better than the steaks in western qld. So too the fruit. So what if it costs a little more...you should be assisting with the economy of the town your visiting anyway.

Interesting that some people are considering cryovacing vegies???? That sounds like a good idea... can you do it to lettuce?
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian H (QLD) - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 21:49

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 21:49
Have to agree with the veggies .......... can you use say the lettece and re vac it or once open must use??

Brian

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Reply By: Middle Jeff - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 20:24

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 20:24
Hi Gronk

I think three weeks is pushing it, it would be OK in a house fridge with a very low temp variance but any fridge in the back of a car is going to change by 4 to 5 degree up and down, this is bad when it comes to food preserving. I would think two weeks is safe and that is with a good safety net as getting sick will stuff a good holiday. Remember the fresher the meat the longer it will last, if you buy the meat and put it in the fridge for a day before you vacuum pack it you will loose two days. Some marinades will help, not a sauce, marinades where originally used to preserve food, so a low liquid one with curry, salt or sugar: eg a home made satay, has all three.

Have fun

Craig
AnswerID: 242991

Reply By: D-Jack - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 21:55

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 21:55
Haven't read all the responses, sorry if someone has already said this, but don't freeze cryovacked meat - it makes the plastic very brittle and prone to splitting/damage, and if this happens you lose all cryovac properties.

D-Jack
AnswerID: 243022

Reply By: Gronk - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 09:25

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 09:25
Thanks for all the answers ; 1st reason I bought it was to keep the bottom of the fridge clean and to also enable me to take the meat out of the plastic packaging to fit in the basket area better......only have a narrow area as the rest is for beer !! As I don't drink water, liquid gold is more important than food !!!!!!!!

So now I will arrange the meat in order of whichever is most likely to go off 1st to go to the top to be used 1st !!!

2nd reason is it takes care of the hassle of any worry about trying to buy meat when your travelling !!! After a long days driving, all I want to do is relax with a beer !!
AnswerID: 243101

Reply By: Outa Bounds - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 12:32

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 12:32
Just don't do broccoli, it gets a funny smell about it pretty quick, obviously you can't remove all the air and it must give of a gas anyway.

Had a sliced carrot left as extra the other night, now if you put it in a freezer bag or container it dries out, so I vacuum packed it to see and of course day or two later it was still fresh as and ready to go, so some veggies you may even be able to pre-prepare particularly for the first few days worth.
AnswerID: 243155

Reply By: Godlike Chef - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 13:54

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 13:54
Hi Gronk

As a chef I buy Vacuum sealed meats from a butcher which is anything up to 4 weeks old when I buy it, I am then able to keep the meat for another 3-5 weeks before it starts to become an issue. I would recommend getting it sealed by the butcher, and ask him how old the meat is to start with as the longer the supplier holds it the less time you get on it, this is why when buying meat to vacuum seal it is best from the butcher not the supermarket. Your home machine would probably be good for 3 weeks in the bottom of the Waeco for red meat but wouldn't push chicken or fish past probably about 7-8 days. Also it is better to vacuum boneless meats as the bones will promote deterioration in the meat.
All Vacuum sealed meats have a distinct smell which can sometimes be confused for "off" meat especially the red meats as the blood begins to smell, but give it a good wash and this will remove most of that smell as you wash away the old blood.
Especially when camping the old saying 'if in doubt, throw it out' is always good to go by.
Hope this is useful and not too confusing!

Matt
AnswerID: 243490

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