An Honest 70 Series Review

Submitted: Monday, May 28, 2007 at 23:28
ThreadID: 46009 Views:17780 Replies:28 FollowUps:49
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If you don't want to hear my honest opinion and just want to hear the "new" 70 series as being nothing but awesome, then stop reading now.

You may love Toyotas, you may know sales statistics, you might know resale values better than I do, but those things aside, I am going to give my promised unbiased review of the 70 series ute, powered by the long-awaited V8 diesel.

I started off with little fuel in the tank (the low-fuel light was on) so there was enough evidence to suggest, there was not a lot of weight to haul for such a claimed tough, reliable truck. Overlooking the old cosmetics, I climbed in the truck forgetting what I knew were low power and torque figures for a modern V8 diesel, and started the engine. I would say it sounded pretty nice. The feel of an old workhorse amused me for a while. I tried to like the car, so I overlooked the old looking, yet flimsy interior, where the grab handles actually partly pulled away from the cheap door trims, while I said to myself "forget that, this is a workhorse." So my focus was on the V8 diesel. We headed towards Belgrave, where my confidence just grew faster and faster, realizing how unpowerful this thing really is. It felt like a 3L Navara STR diesel, when it came to power and torque. The engine was slow to pick up revs, it didn't even feel that torquey. The engine shuddered on taking off in second gear, when in doing the same thing with the same (little) throttle effort in a Astra diesel, it actually felt good. I was going to try test the power and torque on the steepest hill in Upwey, which meant at first I was going to drive up Burwood Hwy from Upper Ferntree Gully. This is where we got to test maintaining and accelerating in gear without revving the V8 diesel engine. This really should have been this engine's main strength. In fact, it should have done this with a heavy trailer. I noticed the engine was willing to maintain the 80km/h up the hill without downshifting (at 2000rpm) but it was not willing to increase it's speed. My only thoughts were, I was glad it didn't have a heavy load. From then on, it only got silly. After reading claims of it being able to smoke tyres, I decided to give it a go. The easiest way to do that is to drop the clutch in first and hang a corner. there was wheel chirping, but that was only due to giving the truck such a hard time, the wheels did not break and continue to break traction by "smoking the tyres". You can't really put this down to technology or a sophisticated rear suspension system, when it just has a solid axle and leaf springs, and no traction control. The truck did not give the sensation of the F250 7.3L V8 of easily out accelerating cars, approaching high speeds effortlessly, this 70 series, seemed to be needed to be "driven" to get there. That is what 4 cylinders are for. The 7.3 Powerstroke has a size advantage for sure, but the Toyota has an intercooled, Common Rail diesel, that SHOULD have more power and torque than the old Powerstroke. Sure the 70 series ute has a purpose, and it's not drag racing. But the tests i put it through just proved its limitations, and for $60,000 to have an old truck with no more payload than a Hilux, less seats, no ABS, automatic available, a V8 diesel with the power of a 4 cyl diesel. At 60km/h in 4th gear, I should be able to feel awesome torque that I know would work well in towing and hill climbing. This truck did not have that sensation at all! You can't even blame the gearing, as the ratios feel quite short for a V8 diesel, and STILL no acceleration. It doesnt tow more than any other 4x4, and the engine certainly does not improve it, like 8 cylinders should. It might look the part for you, but so does an old second hand one.

I will say it again, Toyota! Bring out the Tundra to Australia! Give this engine the 220kw it deserves!

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Reply By: F4Phantom - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 23:41

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 23:41
Yeah I had a bit of a gander, thought I may upgrade the work car cause the v8 does a very respectable 11.5L per 100km. I thought the interior quality was woefull and embarrasing, the door trim was similar to maybe a 70's car when they first experimented with plastic. The v8 was awesome to listen to but the power was rubbish. I cant remember driving a TDi with less power, obviously this thing will tow better than some but in the end the whole power thing that I thought it should have just was not there. Similar to my non turbo diesel navara. Price? over 60k for no aircon, no friggin Afriggin B friggin S!!! I almost laughed at the sales guy. You cant even option ABS. I get the feeling is toyota are relying on the stupidity of the car buying public to push crap out of its yards, the patrol diesel is a hell of a lot more powerful and nicer to drive, there could of course be reliability differences between the toyota and nissan but in the end I cant see my business wanting to own any modern diesel without a warranty because it could not afford to replace any blown diesel engine. So in the end, is there really much difference between this and the old DI TD 4.2L?? I dont think nissan will loose out too much to this, my next stop is a nissan dealer to try out an equivalent patrol.
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Follow Up By: Turbo Lux - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 08:27

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 08:27
There is no Nissan equivalent!!! It does not exist.
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Follow Up By: F4Phantom - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 14:46

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 14:46
nissan does not have 8 cylinders to equate to toyota but it still comes up with the goods from its 4 cyclinder so I cant see where your coming from, all I see is a substandard vehicle in nearly every area.
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Reply By: Wayne-o - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 23:48

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 23:48
My next door neighbour hates his.
Did a pull off on the beach, with the 70 & the datto with a chain....datto killed it.

Refer to my quote next to rig pic!

Wayne-o out
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Follow Up By: F4Phantom - Monday, May 28, 2007 at 23:52

Monday, May 28, 2007 at 23:52
I think nissan are behind the 8 ball in the polularity stakes against toyota, so nissan offer a superior product at a better price. Is picture that a 3.0L or 4.2L?
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Follow Up By: F4Phantom - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 00:01

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 00:01
or should i say, is that rig picture of yours a 3 or 4.2
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Follow Up By: Wayne-o - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 00:20

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 00:20
4.2 iTD.......
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Reply By: Member - lyndon K (SA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 00:04

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 00:04
MMM, AND I THOUGHT THE LOW SLUNG ALTERNATOR WAS THE BIG PROBLEM!!
WOULD LOVE TO HEAR MORE, AND I'M SURE WE WILL!!!!!!!!!!
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Decide now what you will,
Place faith not in tomorrow
For the clock may then be still

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Follow Up By: Wayne-o - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 00:30

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 00:30
and the ugly styling....lol
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Follow Up By: Member - Vince B (NSW) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 07:14

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 07:14
Hi Lyndon.
One new v8 customer is already on his 3rd alternator!!!!!!!!
The local toyota dealer hasn't given an explanation yet.
We will surely hear more of this problem
Vince
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Follow Up By: Member - lyndon K (SA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 09:07

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 09:07
Hi Vince
Are you serious?????????? Is it water crossing that are killing the Alternator?
Cheers Lyndon
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Decide now what you will,
Place faith not in tomorrow
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Follow Up By: Member - Vince B (NSW) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 12:00

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 12:00
Hi Lyndon.
The problem didn't relate to water crossings(even though we have plenty of water in the Tweed shire). It appears that the battery would not charge & perhaps there was a batch of faulty alternators.
Vince
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 12:05

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 12:05
Wheres that thread saying they are blowing #1 and 8 pistons + more problems... ?

What is happening with car makers, are they that pathetic these days?
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Reply By: Richard Kovac - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 00:30

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 00:30
PajeroTD

I still whating.. whats your "honest opinion"...LOl
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Reply By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 00:30

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 00:30
What !

Give them a break ! there isnt one in oz thats done anywhere near enough k's to even look like loosening up, not to mention they are probably detuned as part of the running in stage.
Yes bring in the Tundra if you want a big truck, cos the 70 will never fill that size shoes.

Cheers pesty
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 17:34

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 17:34
As much as it gauls me to say so, Pesty is correct. These are very new rigs and I would doubt any new truck is gunna perform very well with minimal klicks under it's belt. Also, I reckon it'd be a good idea to rip off the standard exhaust system and get it free-flowing (so that it will sound like a V8 should sound if nothing else...hahah) and get a diesel specialist to tune the damn thing and reset the injectors etc.

Granted.....you shouldn't have to do that sort of stuff to a new vehicle to get it up to spec. But it sounds like it needs to be done anyway. As for the alternators; sounds like a standard sort of issue for most new models....there always seems to be something that just didn't work out as well as it was supposed to.

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Reply By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 00:36

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 00:36
Hi Pajero TD

Just wanted to congratulate you on being very brave in giving an honest opinion ....There are certain people on this site that will be very upset with you mate ...lol....you cant go knocking the FAMOUS TOYOTA....they are the perfect vehicle you know ......Cheers....Dave

Waiting for the bullets ...again ...hahaha
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Reply By: Sam from Weipa Auto Electrics - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 08:03

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 08:03
All I can say is like with my 1hdt-fte cruiser (late model 6 turbo diesel) put a chip and a good exhaust on it and you will see what sort of power the v8 really has under her hood. It made a mountain of difference on my 6cyl.
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Follow Up By: disco driver - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 10:48

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 10:48
So why do the unsuspecting mug owners have to go to that expense to get it to do what we were told it would do straight off the showroom floor ??????

From all the pre release talk/guesswork on this forum I would have thought that in standard form the "newer not softer" thingy should have been the "ducks guts".

Apparently not.

Disco
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Follow Up By: Sam from Weipa Auto Electrics - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 15:54

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 15:54
I just drove one this morning and he is comparing it to a 7.3 power stroke they just aren't the same car. and that's the biggest load of rubbish I have heard comparing them to a 4cyl diesel there nothing alike and remeber the size of a land cruiser compared to the smaller vehicles. you need to look at power to weight and without towing something that weighs four ton how can you make a judgement of how well it will perform. The new cruiser is only about 10kws more powerful than the old ones but torque has improved. and comparing them to the under power slug of a nissan they are not even in the same ball park and the leaf spring rear is probably the only downfall of the cruiser but it does not decrease drive comfort in my opinion if you don't believe me then I will take you for a drive in both on the pdr road and you can make you're own decision.
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:19

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:19
Sam,

Do you think the altenator placement will add to your bottom line considering where you are located and how many river crossings most of the trucks up your way will see?

Cheers, Trevor.

PS not all Nissan's are underpowered slugs. Trying dropping your foot off the clutch in the Toyota and see if it will bag up on blacktop and chirp into second from the lights, if not it is not up to what some Nissan's are up to.
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Follow Up By: Sam from Weipa Auto Electrics - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 10:22

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 10:22
I don't know trevor I will just have to see how many people break. Toyota stuff has always been reliable why would were its mounted make that much of a difference?
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 10:40

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 10:40
"why would were its mounted make that much of a difference?"

I'm not sure Sam, you being an Auto Elec, I was hoping if there is any positional problems to arise from the altenator you may be able to advise me of these.

Thank you.
Trevor.
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Follow Up By: Sam from Weipa Auto Electrics - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 11:56

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 11:56
What I mean by this comment is the older vehicles alternator is fairly low if you think about it mine has been drowned and trashed and I have only had to free up the brushes on the ORIGINAL alt once at 160,000. I don't think there going to be as big drama as people think it is.
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 08:21

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 08:21
Hi PajeroTD

Latest Overlander has a comparison test on this car against Patrol 3lt , and unfortunately it gave only the glossy side to - got sucked in and brought the mag as I was in a hurry and it turned out to be a 2 page review I could have written from a brochure.

It basically said V8 was great and a lot more powerful than 3lt Nissan , but that Nissan won elsewhere - however these were just words without any evidence I was quite dissapointed that they did not discuss , let alone try to measure things like wheel articulation efffects and overall vehicle stability and ride issues and generally glossed over lack of many basic features and little facts like new engines fuel consumption.

Had hoped for better

Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Markymark - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 20:43

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 20:43
I got sucked in to buying the magazine too while in a hurry; what a waste of time and money! If that magazine wants to move up from its position as the 3rd ranked (selling) 4wd magazine, it needs to seriously look at the quality of its articles. My thoughts mirror those of Robin in that I could have written the comparison from some brochures too.

Mark.
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Reply By: Gerhardp1 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 10:58

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 10:58
According to the Toyota website, the engine is a direct injection diesel, which I think is different (read older technology) to Common Rail, and partly explains the poor performance.

ENGINE
Engine type Diesel
Engine capacity (cc)4461
Engine description 8cyl/DOHC/4v
Forced induction system Turbo
Maximum Power 151kW @ 3400rpm
Maximum Torque 430Nm @ 1200rpm
(Note: Power and Torque test standards differ. Ensure comparisons use same test standard.)
Configuration V-formation
Valvetrain DOHC
Fuel system Direct injection
- Fuel type Diesel
Intercooler Air to Air
Fuel economy ADR 81/01 Test standard
- Combined (L/100km) 11.9
(Note: Fuel economy varies with driving conditions/style, vehicle conditions, options and accessories.)

Not to mention 8 cylinders putting out 4 cylinders worth of output - the drag of the extra 4 pots will reduce output and increase fuel consumption needlessly.

It should, however, run forever, since it is not even mildly stressed.

I agree that the fitout of the "workhorse" is very basic and the omission of even the most basic of 2007 safety features (airbags) is shameful.

I'm glad I don't need a vehicle like this so it won't affect me.

On a price comparison, you can have 2 of these for less than the price of 1 Toyota- Holden Rodeo Single Cab Chassis DX 3.0 TD 4x4 MY07, current price on Discountnewcars.com.au is $24900.

Power 120kW@3600rpm, Max Torque: 360Nm@1800rpm

Oh what a feeleing.......

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Follow Up By: Members - Bow - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 12:50

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 12:50
Air bags are for city 4wds please keep them out of the bush
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 12:57

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 12:57
Yeah - you love hitting cows and smashing your faces on the steering wheel. It gives you that "intelligent" look, and you can't think straight.

Sorry, but your comment is just plain absurd.
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Follow Up By: Alan H (Narangba QLD) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 14:09

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 14:09
Direct injection and common rail are not mutually exclusive.
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Follow Up By: F4Phantom - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 14:49

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 14:49
Alan H, I thought there were? what about the LR DI's and the old 4.2L toy DI and the 3.0L patrol DI. None of those are common rail from what I know. But if you know, please expand out of genuine interest from my side.
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 15:26

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 15:26
Alan, I think DI is a bit of a generic term, describing how diesels of yesteryear were injected..

CRDI is the current technology, utilising very high pressure in the rail as opposed to modest pressure in the multiple outlets of the injector pump.

The Toyota is really no better than the old 4.2 except it has two extra lazy pots.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 15:58

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 15:58
Gerhardp1,
The V8 is common rail and direct injection.
Previous LandCruiser TDs were all direct injection but not common rail.
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:26

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:26
Member Bow,

Airbags are to my knowledge requirement in most mining sites and most of these are in "the country". I was wanting an airbagless cruiser when I bought it back in 1999 but not really an option unless I wanted to wait 3months or more. Now I wouldn't buy a new car without airbags, they just haven't made any difference but the safety aspect is there if and when it is needed. I thought a few hard 4wd tracks and a bit of over enthusiasm would set them off but nothing close has happened yet so now I am not worried.

Regards, Trevor.
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Reply By: bobby 6 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 15:41

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 15:41
mate sounds to me as though youve got a bee in ya bonnet,i couldnt give a rats arse if its good or bad but a quick drive around the city and you reckon its tested,get real.
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 16:06

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 16:06
If it's a pigs ear on a short test, a long test will turn it into a silk purse, NOT.
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Follow Up By: disco driver - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 18:42

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 18:42
Bobby 6
Pardon me for breathing but I don't think the original poster ever said it was a TEST but was just his opinion on the "newer not softer" 70 series. Obviously he wasn't impressed, you might or might not be either, but that doesn't matter a rat's arse either.

Go and drive the bloody thing yourself and give us your expert opinion on it.

In my opinion, and I haven't driven it, it looks like an early 90's US model Prado with a V8 shoved in to suck in all the one eyed Toyota fans. No airbags, no aircon as standard is NOT acceptable in 2007 even for a so called "work truck".
If you had to spend all day in it for work (ie; it's your workplace) I'm sure you could put up a case under the OccHealth & Safety regs for an upgrade.

IMHO it is a very ordinary vehicle being sold at a Luxury vehicle price.

Disco

Now I sit back and wait for the flak
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 16:06

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 16:06
Given the sales figures, and waiting list, theres obviously a demand for the vinyl seats, Cortina style air vents, steel dash, quarter vent windows, flat windscreen brick-shaped front end, leaf springs, rigid front end, part-time 4wd, FWH etc etc. The V8 is just a bonus :-))

And people who buy a 79series, want a farm truck not a sports car.
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Follow Up By: Sam from Weipa Auto Electrics - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 16:20

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 16:20
mate thats called giving customers want they want toyota have been doing this for about 50 years they know theres no reason to change something people aren't happy with
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Follow Up By: Markymark - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:38

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:38
Yeah I agree Phil but if that's how they want to sell them then the price should reflect that. I saw an old Prado (import) at the Wandin 4wd Day that the new Wagons are now based on. Apart from the V8, new front track and newer grille, the dash, doors, body etc are the same. Even my mates old Bundera at work has the same/similar back end.

So where's the $60 thousand? Perhaps 10-15 for the motor and as for the high-tech chassis and electronics? $30-40ish is what they should be charging. Would love to know the mark up on them.

Cheers,
Mark.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 07:58

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 07:58
Hi Mark,
I agree with you about new pricing, which is why I bought a used one for $40k. All vehicle manufacturers cherge whatever they can get away with. Give it 6-12 months, and you'll be able to walk into any dealer and get at least $5k off the new price.

Out of interest, why would anyone buy a 100series (starts at $62k) when you can buy a Prado for $46k???
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 12:14

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 12:14
I wouldnt say they are really giving people what they want - just to start with, No Air cond standard? its an EXTRA??

I'd say they people are stupid and taking what they are given is closer to the facts.

I agree with Phil G..
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Reply By: GU3.0 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 16:44

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 16:44
I may be biased but here i go...... I have owned a GUIII 3.0 patrol wagon for 3 years. This wagon was chipped and had a mandrel bent exhaust. I have recently purchased a GXL V8 TD Ute. There is NO WAY the patrol does have or has had more power then the 70 series ute. The ute is not a race car and does not drive like one but the the torque and power are where you want them. I had to rebuild the 3.0lt engine in my patrol and it took about 6- 7000k's for the engine to loosen up and rev freely. The Cruiser ute is the same. As a brand new vehicle it will need a little time to loosen up and bed in, after several thousand K's it will rev alot more willingly. I am the first to admit that the cruiser ute is way overpriced for what you get. However if you don't like it simple.... don't buy it. They are built for a specific type of market, the people who buy them do so for a reason, they are simple old style and proven and when it comes time to sell it the resale is outstanding as history has shown. Everyone is entitled to there opinion... it is a free country but, i cannot see how you can pass an honest and fair verdict or reveiw of any vehicle after a short test drive from the dealerships yard. The ute is the same inside as it has been for the past 20 years, what is wrong with that?? it is functional and obviusoly popular with the market that purchases them.

There are plenty of vehicles out there that do not appeal to me.... but i don't bag them simply because there specifications are not to my liking. It is horses for courses. Some people don't want air bags etc and this is the customer toyota are targeting when they build and sell this type of vehicle. I wanted a reliable, proven, economical, Turbo Diesel with a powerful engine, good resale, full size tray, good touring fuel range and understressed motor. What else in Australia fulfills this at the moment??

My 2 cents worth

donning flame proof suit!!
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Reply By: Member - bill - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 17:07

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 17:07
i will start off with, did u intend to buy the vehicle?
if so, do you think it is a good way to run it in ? if just joy-riding, did u have any consideration for the vehicle or if another person drove the vehicle the way you did, would you buy it knowing it was driven in the way u described?

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Follow Up By: Member - Glenn D (NSW) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 17:40

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 17:40
I guess you have to take that into account if you think you are getting a 'bargain' if you buy a Demo .

The worst was a sales guy when I was looking as WRX's , flogged the ass out of it while cold with very low kms , then asked if I was looking for a bargain . When I finally ordered one they couldnt work out why I didnt want anyone to deliver it.

Glenn.
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Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 17:20

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 17:20
Deja Vu. I seem to remember all this sort of criticism from the Toyota wannabees when the 100 series came out. Ooooh it's got IFS! How weak is that? Yadda yadda.

I bet when the 200 comes out all the Recession Shoppers (read: Nissan owners) and Auld Country losers (read: Discovery/Rangie Owners) will bag the vehicle because it's too much like a sedan; where will youse put a CB? Here we have a vehicle that is so basic that you could quite happily put tek screws thru it if you wanted to.

Someone mentioned one person on his third alternator. What's the common link there? The owner. He must be doing something wrong. If there was a procession fair enough. Myabe a procession like the Patrol owners whose gearboxes collapsed or whose engines threw a leg out of bed (both common problems with the Patrols). And Discoveries!! You know, electrics by Lucas, the Prince of Darkness.

No airbags? Talk to any dealer (other than a Range Rover dealer) and ask why they won't trade a Rangie. It's because one of the major services (relatively low k's too) involves changing ALL the airbags at a huge cost. Go on, ask one of them. They won't touch them.

Toyota didn't get to be the biggest manufacturer of motor vehicles in the world by producing duds (ok, we won't mention the Tercel). I want a basic, strong 4wd. That's why I ordered a TDV8 trayback. I could have got a 100 series with only 18,000 klms on it for the same price but that's why we have a choice. I'm going from an 80 series to a TDV8. I owned a Nissan once. A Navara. It wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding. Couldn't get rid of it fast enough.

And what about Nissan's habit of destroying their own vehicles' retained value? You buy a Patrol. Three months later Nissan dress one up with a whole lot of accessories and price it cheaper than the one you just bought. So yours dies in the bum. Sorry, don't need my dealer working against me.

Look, if you can't afford a Toyota, don't bag it. Give up your smokes and save up. You may get one eventually.
I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Follow Up By: Middle Jeff - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 21:13

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 21:13
Hi Gone

Reading this thread is the same as always, everybody bagging out every other make but their own and I sit here laughing at everybody getting worked up and then shock horror you bagged the Tercel, granted probably the most ugly car I have ever owned, but I had a great time in my little Tercel. Even went up to Cooktown in 1988 and crossed the Bloomfield river with water hitting the bottom of the windscreen, that little car gave me more fireside stories than any other I have ever owned, funniest drive train I have ever come across. Thanks for reminding me.

Have fun

Craig
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Follow Up By: Member - Troopytrek - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 21:14

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 21:14
G'Day GoneBush, We would like to congratulate you for your reply as it was really well put. By the way what is all the crap about airbags. To my knowledge { keeping in mind I have been in the collision repair industry for twenty years} air bags were made because americans believed it to be against their constitutional right to be forced to wear seatbelts. Cheers Troopytrek
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:27

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:27
Thanks Middles & Troopytrek. Honestly I love the Nissan vs Toyota stuff. It's all tongue in cheek. It's better than living in Russia and having the choice of Ladas and Ladas isn't it?

Years ago I had an operation to prevent acid reflux from my stomach. The operation is called a Nissen Fundoplication. I remember telling my 4WD Club one meeting that it comes from the Latin Nissen for Nissan and Fundoplication for removing that part of your brain that gets you to spend money (funds) on a Nissan. Brought the house down.

Really, if we all drove Toyotas it would be like not having Dockers supporters to pick on.
I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Follow Up By: GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 14:56

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 14:56
As of 2006 Toyota is NOT the worlds biggest. General Motors still is and has been for donkeys years.

This may change by the end of 2007 but that's a while away.

Just proves you mustn't believe eveything Toyota tell you.
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Reply By: PajeroTD - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 18:01

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 18:01
I thought a few people would question the comparison with the 7.3 What else is there to compare it to? The Nissan 3.0 and the Ford 7.3 That's the nearest competition. Which of those two does it feel closer to? Sadly, the Nissan 3.0 (that's a non-common rail Nissan 3.0) In fact, it feels almost EXACTLY like the old Nissan 3.0, it just sounds better. Remember the Ford 7.3 is an old engine too. A modern V8 diesel of 4.5L should have around 220kw-260kw and 650-750Nm without any hassle at all. This has 150kw/430Nm. I would buy one if I thought it was good. The F150 will have a 4.4L V8 diesel with around 250kw/750Nm soon enough.
AnswerID: 243260

Reply By: Member - bill - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 18:37

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 18:37
you did not answer the ???????????????? where u joy riding or intending to buy
AnswerID: 243272

Follow Up By: PajeroTD - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 19:00

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 19:00
What difference does it make? If I purchase it, does my review become more or less valid? I have purchased 4 new cars in the last yr, the latest being a dual cab 4L V6 Hilux 4X4, I was interested in the 70 series, I did consider with an open mind, aquiring a couple of these for the fleet to haul our trailers for our deliveries. I am sure they can DO the job, but no more easily or impressively than a cheaper Patrol. So I am not really interested in it.
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Reply By: bobby 6 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 18:43

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 18:43
mate its not all about power,if thats what ya want as you say go buy the ford,in ten yrs time i'd like to see out of the ford/toyota which is still running with say just regular maitenance.
AnswerID: 243274

Follow Up By: PajeroTD - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 19:03

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 19:03
Then why are Toyota using it's engine to promote it? Why is everyone talking about the engine? I am just clearing perception from reality. If it's not all about power in the 70 series, if it is not all about Payload either? WHAT THE HELL IS IT ABOUT?
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Follow Up By: Member - bill - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 19:44

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 19:44
so in your opinion if it does a wheelie you will buy it and is this how u testdrive all your cars prior to purchase or should i say lease
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Follow Up By: PajeroTD - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 21:46

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 21:46
Do you always cry like a baby when you don't agree with somebody?
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 12:11

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 12:11
hahahahha! GOLD!
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Reply By: Crackles - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 20:15

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 20:15
Paj as much as I agree that the new 70 series is a let down I can't agree with your test methods. Starting a brand new car off in 2nd gear or trying to light up the wheels proves very little as 1st gear is put in most cars for a reason & often a car will spin the wheels for other reasons like a poor tyre compound or suspension. As I drive an F250 at work I disagree with your comparison as it can't spin the wheels either, in fact it has trouble spinning them on the dirt & at no time have I ever been pushed back in the seat with it's accelleration. The 7.3 Powerstroke does have an intercooler as well in front of the radiator so I actually think it should go alot better than it does. The new Cruiser V8 is good for what it was designed for & that's reliable low down grunt for towing & load carrying, not accelleration & wheel spinning.
The bit Toyota should be held to task over is their arrogance in building a Cruiser out of parts from the 80's & 90's & slapping a 2007 price tag on just because it has a new motor. As an example while Mitsubishi offer an electric opperated locking limited slip diff for $500 on their ute, Toyota charge $1300 each for older syle lockers or you can stick with the standard limited slip diff that has never worked since it was first released. (Goes with the handbrake that can't hold on a hill)
Just like the Landcruiser 60 series was overshadowed by the GQ coil sprung Patrol in the 80's, it seems Toyota have left the gate open again for Nissan to put a V8 diesel in the next Patrol upgrade & again provide a far superior product. As a Toyota owner for 22 years I think they have lost touch with what many want in a new vehicle & when people get over the myth that Toyota's are in some way superior they may look at the current offering for what it is....uncomfortable, dated & lacking few if any innovations from this century.
Don't get me started on the 76 wagon or we'll be here all night :-)
Toyota 70 series......Older not tougher.
Cheers Craig...........
HZJ105.
AnswerID: 243310

Follow Up By: Sam from Weipa Auto Electrics - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 13:02

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 13:02
All nissan need is a fit decent 6cyl efi diesel and to get rid of the bloody death wobble they have then they will have a decent car.
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Reply By: bobby 6 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 20:43

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 20:43
well i have no idea when you say what the hell is it all about,what did you expect,supercharged 350 chev power,i dont know either what the hell it is all about but i do know its another offering from a car company,maybe thats it,i mean get over it,i just reckon your views of a car after a drive around the city where it performs probably at its worse are way over the top,surely you'd have to agree a little bit on that.
also the troopy is the last 4x4 of its kind still available,simple,rugged,dependable,if ya want something else you buy a cruza,patrol,paj,disco,its just choices thats all,i know alot of people would be wingin if they turned the 70 series into a landcruiser with all the bells and whistles,if i had the money i'd prob jump on the 4door wagon,a troopy with more doors is quite handy.oh maybe the defender is still avail,iis similar too the troopy.
AnswerID: 243320

Reply By: Gramps (NSW) - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:35

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 at 22:35
ROFLMAO

Lots of fish biting here. What a cack :)))))))))))
AnswerID: 243381

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 08:06

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 08:06
Nothing like a good stoush on this forum :-)))
And its not as boring as a waeco or Coopers beatup.
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 08:17

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 08:17
LOL this is probably one of the more civilized rumbles :))))
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Reply By: GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 07:10

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 07:10
Good on you Pajero for this post. A thoroughly enjoyable read.
The responses show once again what we'd seen on previous occasions.

There are people who think, question, analyse, weigh up, review, etc etc etc.
and then form an opinion based on the current information available.

There are others whose questioning minds work like this.
Duuuuuuhhhhhhh......it's. it's....it's....a Toyota. Duhhhh must be good.
I'll get one.

I just don't understand how Toyota get away with it.
As for the comments. fit this that and the other, change this change that. Spend 10 or 20 grand and you'll have a car that does what the brochure said it would. Sounds just like the old days of Land Rover where the customer was the R & D lab. This is 2007!
AnswerID: 243413

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 08:48

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 08:48
Maybe they cost so much because they attract the luxury car tax :-)
AnswerID: 243425

Reply By: Redback - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 10:09

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 10:09
Who bloody cares for crying out loud, at the end of the day you buy what you want.

Who cares what brand it is, if you like it buy it, if you don't like it don't buy it, simple!!!!

Baz.
AnswerID: 243436

Reply By: F4Phantom - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 10:30

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 10:30
Hey I saw on the news last night the cheapest car to operate, service and own is the hyundai, and the most expensive.......wait for it...........da da..........TOYOTA LANDCRUISER GXL TURBO DIESEL. Finally they have broken away from their working man roots and are now playing with the big boys

Site Link

"RACV calculates vehicle operating costs for a number of popular new vehicles. The calculations include the cost of financing the vehicle, depreciation, scheduled services, registration, insurance, fuel, tyres, etc. The calculations are provided as a guide to the cost of owning and operating a vehicle over a five year, 75,000 km (15,000 km per year) period."

So there we go, if you look at the big picture - money - then do you really want to drive the most expensive car in its class and still only have a toyota badge up front?

Oh......... and toyotas also scored the most expensive to own in other classes

class expensive toyota

medium 4x4 prado
compact 4x4 Rav4
people mover tarago
large car aurion
medium car camry
small car corolla
light car yaris

Proof in the Pudding.

Oh what an expensive feeling.
AnswerID: 243441

Follow Up By: Off-track - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 11:50

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 11:50
I think you're telling lies mate; Yaris, Aurion, Corolla and Camry were not the dearest in class at all.

Proof in ya pud.
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Follow Up By: F4Phantom - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 12:04

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 12:04
My apologies, I am seriously not into telling lies, I just double checked, the list stands as I wrote except the Yaris is thrid , corolla was cheapest, camry was cheapest, aurion was 3rd. The 4x4's did all come out the most expensive along with the tarago. I recon the point stands, as this is still weighted heavily towards toyota.
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Reply By: gbc - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 11:37

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 11:37
Of course the motor's detuned and for good reason - cart sprung arse and 200+kw would see them destroyed faster than they could build them.

The new wagon will be out soon - wait and see the output figures from the same motor in that one - even an extra turbo too - apparently.

I came back from the Pilbara last week and it is toyota central - with the odd Nissan thrown in. 70's last and will do the job. That's why the vast majority of them are sold into fleets.

I've also been told that the next production run will see airbags and maaayyybee abs in approx 12 months - again as a specific request from fleet (mining).

There's a toyota genuine supercharger available for the 3.4 v6, but does that mean all v6 prado's and hiluxes should have been born with one?

The big picture looks at a lot more that 'chirping'.

And as for flogging it brand new, hands up all who've run in a td4.2 nissan motor - They are the most dissappointing thing to drive brand new, but once run in the difference is appreciable.

My view anyhoo

C.J.

AnswerID: 243451

Reply By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 11:57

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 11:57
So a Pajero owner gives us a honest opinion on a Toyota.

I have 4 Toyota's so should I give you an honest opinion of a Nissan??

So here is my honest opinion.

If You Don't Like It, Don't Buy It.

How simple is that.

Steve.
AnswerID: 243453

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 12:12

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 12:12
did you read thru the thread to see the other toyotas he owns?


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Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 12:33

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 12:33
Yeah just found it.

Fair call.

Steve.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 15:38

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 15:38
Thats a novel look for you Truckster, I guess it makes cutting your toe nails pretty easy :-)
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Reply By: bobby 6 - Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 12:40

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 at 12:40
I like the bit where he said "but the tests i put it through just proved its limitations"
i think he's talkin about peak hour in melbourne.
AnswerID: 243467

Reply By: tempestv8 - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 14:08

Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 14:08
Thanks for the writeup PajeroTD.

I took one for a test drive a few weeks ago, as I'm looking for something that could replace my existing Land Rover Discovery Series II V8.

I'll say that I only look at a product based on its merits and suitability for what I need and then weigh it up against the competition based on the price/value equation. So with that open mind, I went to evaluate the GXL 4 door 78 series wagon.

My quick summary of the vehicle is that:

Negatives:

1. I wish Toyota was able to offer a 180 litre fuel tank option for the 5 door wagon.

2. I don't mind the low output for the engine, but am disappointed with no development work done to the rest of the interior or drivetrain - surely Toyota could have strengthened the differentials? :(

3. Airconditioning should be standard as should diff locks at that price point.

4. The second row seat only has a centre belt for the middle passenger, and no head rests to prevent severe neck injuries due to lack of whiplash protection.

5. No auto transmission available.

6. No airbags or ABS.

Positives:

1. Even though the alternator is fairly low, there is a metal guard which will minimise mud from being sprayed or pushed into the unit, assuming it is not submerged for too long.

2. Standard factory snorkel

3. Tight turning circle

4. Simple

5. Understressed engine, given the very low specific power outputs from its capacity.

My summary is that this vehicle would be good in the bush, where there are relatively fewer vehicles. It does not have the sort of passive safety features that would make it a good family truck for taking the kids to school and back. Yet, it doesn't have the fuel capacity for long distance driving, although aftermarket tanks are surely forthcoming.

My conclusion is that since I spend 99% of my time in the city and 1% on that 3 week outback trip, this vehicle isn't ideal for me.

But it's nice that Toyota is offering this vehicle with the V8 - in some other countries where emissions is not a problem, they continue with the 4.2TD inline six in the 78 series.

Lawrance

AnswerID: 243970

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