Home Made Muffler for Generators?
Submitted: Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 10:13
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TentEnKaMan
Hello folks, lovely to speak at last! :D I am a Noob camper, and at the stage where I am starting to acquire my gear and money is an issue. I have been reading these forums with some interest for a few days and have learnt a lot of valuable info off the savvy people on here. Yes I am one of those annoying ppl with a generator :( ( 2stroke 650w scorpion). I am going to be upgrading my rig with a 100aH+ AGM battery and 500w pure sine inverter. However I also need to buy a trailer and camps australia wide. This puts my wish-list up to about $1200 and as I have already spent $1600 so far. Solar is unfortunately out of my reach at this time. So I will still have to run my generator to charge my deep cycle battery (or the car). I was wondering if some clever soul had tried making a
home made muffler for these generators, or whether this causes operational problems with them. We are always trying to set up in a corner to not inflict our racket on others, but would be so much nicer for us and everyone else if we could make it quieter, (as
well as cutting down usage thru deep cycle battery setup. I had a woman camper neighbour apologise to me recently for her awful country music blaring.... All I could say is why are you sorry? You have had to put up with worse from us. Oh on a side note is it only me that it seems ironic to, that a machine with moving parts is so much cheaper than little panels that collect sunlight? Just doesn't seem right lol.... Anyhows thanks in advance to anyone who can enlighten me on this issue and happy camping to everyone else :-D
Reply By: me2@neuralfibre.com - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 10:23
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 10:23
It is going to take a VERY VERY long time to charge a batt with the generator. The 12V output is low current, and the deep cycle is slow to charge. 6amp max generally.
I would look at using the car alternator or getting a cheap new 4 stroke motor and alternator from the wreckers. For $500 you can get 80 amps.
Paul
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Follow Up By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 10:36
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 10:36
Thanks for
the tip Paul! I had already gathered from looking thru forums that a battery charger running off the 240v outlet was the way to go. Is this still going to make it a lengthy process? The car is on gas, so wouldnt be the end of the world to use it I guess. Still doesnt come close to that frugal little generator though the thing runs about 10 hrs on 4 and a half litres of petrol lol. Anyone with
home made muffler experience please post! :D A "mate" (not me of course lol) years ago made a silencer for a 22 rifle. It consisted of a plastic bottle and a series of cordial lids with holes drilled in them. Worked so
well that the loudest thing on the gun was the firing pin! I thought if you can do that with plastic surely there is something you can make in the way of a metal muffler to quiet the bugga down lol. Anyone?
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Reply By: traveller2 - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 10:49
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 10:49
You probably can muffle it further but 2 strokes rely on a free flowing exhaust to get a relatively high output from a small capacity engine, fitting additional mufflers may nobble the power output somewhat.
I've never tried with my GMC 750w jobbie which is basically the same unit. But it did get quieter after a bit of use as the muffler gunked up a bit. Mind you they are pretty quiet for a 2 stroke.
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Follow Up By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 11:19
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 11:19
Thanks traveller 2 I thought that something like that may be the case, At best I need about 300w to run fridge tv dvd and stereo and 2x20w halogens, so really only need half the power output. I guess it would be when you started an appliance, that it really gets a workout and it may cause stalling. Was thinking a pretty basic slip on slip off unit. May be a matter of trying to make the thing.... got plenty of old motorbike exhausts lol. something smaller would be better but If i cant find anything to give a go may have to try this as a prototype at least if i make it pull off, will be easier to pack rather than hanging off hahahaa. Just noticed that thru the threads, they dont even put decent spark plugs in the things so maybe a little more muffling could come into play. Im not particularly handy so thought maybe some other mad soul had had the idea too lol. I am not particularly
well versed in two stroke tuning I will admit, but was thinking maybe a small amount of extra baffling may be possible. Got to go bottle beer atm. Cheers for your enlightenment :-D
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Reply By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 11:28
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 11:28
Okay got an idea for a prototype. header and muffler off bike (single manifold I have one i think) and a cut up coke can side as the adjoining material prob wired on just to
test it out. Will try to build in next couple of days and post back. Thinking the header and muffler way bigger than exhaust port for gennie anyhows, so maybe wont interfere with exhaust flow too much? Oh thats right Ive gotta bottle the beer first :/ lol
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Reply By: Member - joc45 (WA) - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 11:42
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 11:42
Hi TentEnKaMan,
Sounds difficult on a cheap 2-stroke. Might be simpler to invest in a long extension lead.
You could reduce noise by setting up a surround of thick felting/old carpet about a metre high, held up by 3 or 4 poles poked in the ground, arranged around the genny. Most of the noise will then go upwards. Should pack up easily as
well.
The 12v output from your genny is pretty low. You'd get best recharge on your AGM battery by using the 240v output and getting one of those 3-stage AGM chargers. Not cheap, but you'll pump plenty of amps into the battery, and safely.
Note you are using 20w halogens. Invest in 12v CFL flouros. You can get these quite cheaply (about $20) from Jaycar (cat SL2850 or 2852), but they need a protective cover, or buy a nice Versalite for about $100. You'll save a fair bit of power this way. You can also get 12v lights with an array of white LEDs. Not sure how good these are, but will use much less power.
Gerry
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Follow Up By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 12:12
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 12:12
Thanks for
the tip joc45 we do use a long extension cord bout 20m though could be longer. We also always set up in a corner park the car for a bit of noise shielding and make sure
our camp is in between the noise and anyone else. The noise doesnt bother you when you know you need it for power its those around you who get nothing from it that it ticks off lol . The felt is a great tip. Is easy to get free 2nd hand carpet will look into that when i get trailer. Thank you. I reckon since i got the bits sitting there i may knock up the muffler can anyhow lol . I used this coke can repair on a snapped exhaust on a 600 once although i did use hose clamps on that occasion lol it actually worked really
well. I called it my "perforamnce amatil exhaust system" (coca-cola amatil) lmao. Will only take half an hour to try out.
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Follow Up By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 12:19
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 12:19
Errr sorry where it reads snapped exhaust on a 600 means 600cc motorbike
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Reply By: me2@neuralfibre.com - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 11:56
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 11:56
240V charger will prob be 10A at best, and most likely less. Still going to take 5 - 10 times as long as an 80Amp alternator for $50 off a commodore.
Built one of these for the old mans boat for exactly this reason. Christie generator is the same thing with great packaging (and ouchie price).
I use the cruiser, but it's got a 120A alternator from factory, and the diesel is prety frugal. I won't idle it for hours though, might glaze it up. Take it for drive instead.
No easy way out of this game, I have tried.
Read my other post for info on battery economics - there is a link to battery isolator systems and discussion in there on battery ssytem costs and capacities.
Paul
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Follow Up By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 12:27
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 12:27
Thanks for the info Paul i thinki get it so if i have a 100aH battery charging at 10A gunna take 9hrs ? (90% use AGM) and the car would do it in an hour? hahahhaa fair point lol... I see my gennie will become obsolete with a decent battery setup. May try and quieten it down anyhows coz im stuck with it i need the trailer first :/ then im up for $600 between 115aH AGM and 500w PSW inverter can u post link to battery economics thread? I may have seen it anyhow I did trawl quite a few battery threads. We have a EL Falcon alternator pretty similar wattage?
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Follow Up By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 12:33
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 12:33
Speaking of which I dont probably have the room under the hood for a dual battery setup as I have LPG stuff under there already as
well :/. Was going to store battery on trailer and charge with gennie will have to rethink this :/
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Reply By: Member - Mottleman (NSW) - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 13:01
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 13:01
This might be the sort of thing you could consider
Site Link
I'm in the middle of building something similar and will post how it goes.
cheers
John
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Follow Up By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 14:02
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 14:02
Yes Mottleman that looks great. I did consider a box to start with and then thought the exhaust has to breathe and thats the noisy bit. Do you have a link to the literature to go with this or just link to photos? Its a lil hard to see how the exhaust bit works. Thank you for sharing this idea :-D
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 18:53
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 18:53
How are you going to ensure that the Generator gets enough airflow to keep cool ?
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Follow Up By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 21:38
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 21:38
Through an inlet fan that blows air into the box mike
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Reply By: me2@neuralfibre.com - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 13:27
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 13:27
Give me a shout offline with your location. I might have some ideas for you. Email is above.
Paul
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Reply By: Axel [ the real one ] - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 13:50
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 13:50
Ive had the Scorpion 950 for about 4 or so yrs , [also have solar but thats not what your asking about] , do NOT try to charge a battery from the 12v outlet as it is unregulated , power from same can be anywhere from 12v upto 19/20v , as for quietening down ,one way is to braise an L shaped pipe about 6inches long onto the current muffler outlet and have it facing down to the ground , being 6 inches long it will extend down into the ground so you need to dig a hole about 2 shovel fulls round and deep where the pipe sits , drops the exhaust noise level from the normal 53db to around 40db ,quieter than a honda ,LOL. Ps , ours will and has run for 14hrs straight on the 1 tank of fuel [4.5lt] supplying 240v to a 15lt Engle + a 80lt Waeco + a 50lt Chescold and a 20yr old 60lt Engle + 2 old Cream and green 39lt Engles plus lights , would love to seea honda 1000 do the same.
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Follow Up By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 15:27
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 15:27
great thank you axel, this is kind of the thing I was thinking of so nice to here its possible! We have run our scorpion about 16 hrs a day for four days with no prob.... lol its second hand too
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Reply By: kcandco - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 14:48
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 14:48
Hi TentEnKaMan this site might interest you
www.campertrailers.org/generator_box.htm
regards Kc
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Follow Up By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 15:22
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 15:22
cheers kcando that looks a lil simpler. I may be able to set up something like that on the trailer as I was going tp buy a box trailer anyhow as its main use would be camping and the waterproofing and security aspects of a box trailer would be most suitable. However now that ive finished my beer I am going out to try a couple of zero dollar solutions (which for me still needing to aquire some other gear may be best solution atm lol) If I come up with anything out in the shed will report back here. If not then this definitely looks like a good value for money solution thank you.
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Reply By: Gossy - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 16:29
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 16:29
apologies if this has already been mentioned but I don't have time to read the whole
forum. In the Army we use to run a long rubber hose from the muffler outlet and run along the ground away from where the tent area was (and point it away). Crude but quite effective.
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Follow Up By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 18:25
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 18:25
This actually worked really
well I was surprised. My garden hose was old anyhow so i gave it a go and worked a treat. Made me notice all the other engine noises though hahahaa. Maybe there is something in the box setup. I was thinking maybe even incorporate the hose into it and keep it as simple as a soundproofed box to size, length of hose put thru hole in box ( with plenty of slack on gennie side that you could lift box off to fill with fuel), and small fan on small soundproof ducting into it. Could even maybe use a good PC fan. Dunno if they are 12 or 240 volt guess I really need 240 so it can run off the gennie lol. Think Ill include a hose clamp into the final version too lol. Had to slightly split hose in two
places to slip over ridges on exhaust but then it fits a treat :-D
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Reply By: Member - Douglas M (SA) - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 18:08
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 18:08
Hi TentEnKaMan
"I had a woman camper neighbour apologise to me recently for her awful country music blaring.... All I could say is why are you sorry? You have had to put up with worse from us."
It must be an absolutely awful sounding generator! ;-)
Doug
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Follow Up By: obee - Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 18:40
Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 18:40
I once saw a generator buried in the ground and just the air intake and exhaust exiting. This may not be practical for normal purposes but it would be a good solution to country and western music. Just remember not to dig it up again.
Owen
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Reply By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 18:31
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 18:31
LMAOOOOOOOO Dougie, was a close battle but we were noisy 4 days and she was noisy one night lol
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Reply By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 18:55
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 18:55
Well I tried the motorbike header/muffler, but it only worked minorly better than the garden hose solution posted above. This is probably partially due to my dodgy chopped up energy drink joiner and subsequent leakage (didnt have hose clamps big or small enough for either end) but is also a hell of a lot bulkier and requires some proffesional customisation to achieve properly. It ran my 700 watt drill with no gripes so the exhaust baffling is not an issue. Think Im going to try the box as it the whole motor not just the exhaust that needs to be quietened down. Both the hose and bike muffler demonstrated this. The muffler diminished exhaust noise more than the hose but I will probably incorporate the hose into the box as It is a lot lighter and less bulky than the muffler and does diminish exhaust noise as
well. It also allows you to control the direction the noise goes in a lot more easily. Would also allow you to store generator in tent or trailer during wet patches. We got rained out for 3 days our first trip and i was constantly adjusting the tent i bought for our generator to try and strike a balance between not choking it on its own fumes and keeping it dry. Wish Id read this tip then hahahaha
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Follow Up By: Member - Au-2 - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 19:54
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 19:54
Er. . um . . being a mere female I don't know much about these things but . . .I was wondering if the used cartridge out of a water filter might work as a muffler. When we change the water filter for our fridge we take out a long foam cylinder which we throw away. It has a hollow centre such as a hose might/should fit through and is at least one inch thick and 30cms long. Would a hose fit on the outlet of a genni or would something specific have to be bought? I have thought of this for our generator if we should have to spend any time in a public camping facility (NOT) and have also thought of a polystyrene box (with air vents appropriately placed) put over the top of the genni, apologies in advance if anyone dies laughing at these ideas,
OzeSheila.
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Follow Up By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 21:52
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 21:52
well if youve got the scorpion the garden hose will fit just needs two little cuts to get the hose over the muffler end. Sounds like most of the el cheapo two strokes are the same so if uve got one prob fit yours too. From there you just push it up and it fits snugly. Was a great tip from the ex army guy lol. Dunno bout the polystyrene box guess it would have mildly muffling properties as long as there werent any holes, but most ppl are looking for more than the 5% of noise it may reduce. I dont have a water filter but would be worried about the foam melting but then if its rubbish anyhow what have u got to lose. The links provided by others about soundproof boxes have been excellent
well worth a look. Lastly nice to see a woman interested in practical problems. Think interest in the issue is half the battle, not what gender we were born under, the rest follows as our knowledge expands!
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Reply By: TentEnKaMan - Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 21:59
Friday, Jun 01, 2007 at 21:59
Anyone know where to buy the soundprrofing stuff in
Adelaide? It looks like astrofoil, I'v got some of that laying round in the shed lol
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