Earthing autotune and tranceiver

Submitted: Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 09:31
ThreadID: 46172 Views:2222 Replies:8 FollowUps:1
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Seeking advice about the best way to earth an autotune HF antenna.

Regulars may have seen post 45973 re trouble hearing VKS skeds with my recently installed HF radio.

While I'm confident the radio works, and that the difficulties are mostly associated with my location (latrobe valey), the latest advice (from the radio retailer) to improve performance is two fold.
1. Earth the autotune to the body of the vehicle (not the chasis)
2. Earth the transceiver

I've just been reading 46169 about earthing an anderson plug for charging batteries in a van. There is no talk of earthing this to the body. This has got me wondering about the advice I received.

Earthing the transceiver is easy - assuming that can just go to the body of the vehicle.

Currently the autotune is earhterd to the chasis via the real wheel carrier (ie. the cable supplied with the autotune is connected to the steel in the rear wheel carrier, and then another cable connects the rear wheel carrier to the chasis). All connections have been done by scraping back to bare metal, screwed, and then painted.

Would it realy be better to earth to the body rather than the chasis?

Tim
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Reply By: Footloose - Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 09:47

Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 09:47
Tim, earthing is something you can't have too much of with an a/t. However, I don't think that's your problem.
Your aerial seems to tune ? Then earthing isn't going to make a huge difference with receiving.
Are you sure that the radio is working well ? Have you tried disconnecting your aerial on a broadcast station frequency and connecting a long bit of wire to prove the receiver and aerial is working ?
Are there any lights on your radio, or a beep system that tell you when you're aerial is tuned ?
Do you have a friend with a similar system that you can try your radio in his truck ?
If all else fails, grab someone who is familiar and qualified with your setup and ask them to have a look at it.
By the way, where are you located ?
AnswerID: 244139

Reply By: Mike Harding - Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 09:48

Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 09:48
Hi Tim

I suspect location is a lot to do with it. I live on the Mornington Peninsula (about 80km LOS from you) and despite having a decent wire dipole, antenna tuner and quality radio gear rarely get good reception on VKS737. I guess their antennas are intended to put maximum into the central areas of Oz. Try tuning in to Amateur transmissions or the BBC World Service for a different perspective.

Earthing: flat copper strap or braided strap as short as possible and as thick as possible to the chassis and body. RF and earth - the rule is you can't have too much of it.

Mike Harding
AnswerID: 244140

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 09:55

Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 09:55
Earth to both with a thick cable of strap - theres a heap of metal in the body which is what its about. Best place for the body earth is usually one of the fat bolts on the body side of the tailgate hinges - scrape paint, smear vaseline, and use a new bolt. The earth makes a big difference to the quality of your transmissions.
AnswerID: 244142

Reply By: Tony MD - Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 10:18

Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 10:18
Hi Tim.
1. The radio signals from the VKS bases are not strong here in Melbourne where there is also high background noise levels.
2. An HF mobile whip is a relatively inefficient antenna due to its small length (measured in wave lengths - 300 / frequency in mHz).
3. Increasing the length of the antenna - by simply connecting a wire to the whip that is about 8 metres long - will improve the efficiency. The auto-tune antenna should tune this as a 1/4 wave antenna. (For 8022 kHz)
4. As others have stated, bond the antenna RF earth to body and chassis with as short a strap as possible.
5. You need to listen and call at the right time of day. On Wednesday, Alice Springs was reasonable between 1:30pm & 2:00pm. More activity can be heard in the evenings. 8022kHz is heard to have the most traffic here.
6. As Mike suggested, try listening to other frequencies. The Amateur 40 metre band - 7.000 to 7.100 carries a fair amount of traffic in the afternoons, particularly weekends. later at night, try the 80 metre band 3.550 to 3.700mHz. Note that both these amateur bands use Lower Sideband where VKS and nearly all other services use Upper Sideband. You should find some activity on 20 metres 14.100 - 14.300 mHz Upper Sideband during the day.
7. If you want to try a test, contact me.
Cheers, Tony.
AnswerID: 244146

Reply By: Tim Owen - Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 10:42

Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 10:42
Thanks All.

The radio is working (ie. I have now heard VKS skeds out in charters towers and alice springs and perth - scratchy and only sometimes, and I have been able to transmit to these bases at the times when I can hear them). Thanks to one of the VKS operators (Rox) I have also talked through the St Marys base which gave me a good idea of what a clear transmission is like. I'm realy just trying to make sure that I have done everything I can to get the best out of the radio before heading off.

I'll take the advice and add an earth strap to the body and leave the existing earth to the chassis.

Mike - thanks for the report on reception to VKS from Mornington Peninsula. It's good to know that my experience is not too different to others nearby.

Thanks for all your help.
AnswerID: 244151

Follow Up By: blue one - Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 18:09

Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 18:09
Tim,
Wait for St Mary to come online as they are just across the straight. This will confirm if you have problem with the radio or location.

Cheers
0
FollowupID: 505184

Reply By: anglepole - Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 16:20

Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 16:20
Hi Tim,

Earthing to the back door can be a bit sussy. The back door is usually earthed via its hinges and or lighting wiring. Earth the antenna to the chassis side of the hinge or place a strap across the hinge to earth the back door.

Here is a prediction for vks Melbourne to Alice using a 1.65 metre whip

Hope this helps

===============================================================================
ASAPS V5 FREQUENCY PLAN PREDICTIONS ---------------------------- 2 Jun 2007
===============================================================================
Circuit 1: Melbourne-Alice Spri Distance: 1892km Date: June 2007
Tx: Melbourne -37.82 144.97 Bearings: 323 149 T-index: 9
Rx: Alice Springs -23.70 133.86 Path: Short Path
Selected frequency set: VKS-737 Network
3.995 5.455 8.022 11.612 14.977
===============================================================================
Mode: 1F TakeOff Angle: 8-11 | Mode: 1E TakeOff Angle:1
Probability > 90% | Probability 50-90% |
===============================================================================
Time Frequency | Time Frequency | Time Frequency
UT MHz | UT MHz | UT MHz
0000-0800 11.612 | 0000-0800 14.977 | 0000-0200 11.612
0800-0900 8.022 | 0800-0900 11.612 | 0200-0400 14.977
0900-2200 5.455 | 0900-2200 8.022 | 0400-0700 11.612
2200-2300 8.022 | 2200-2300 11.612 | 0700-0800 8.022
2300-2400 11.612 | 2300-2400 14.977 | 0800-2200 None
| | 2200-2300 5.455
| | 2300-2400 8.022
===============================================================================
Mode: 2F TakeOff Angle:23-27 | Mode: 2E TakeOff Angle:8
Probability > 90% | Probability 50-90% |
===============================================================================
Time Frequency | Time Frequency | Time Frequency
UT MHz | UT MHz | UT MHz
0000-0800 8.022 | 0000-0800 None | 0000-0700 8.022
0800-0900 5.455 | 0800-0900 8.022 | 0700-0800 5.455
0900-2200 3.995 | 0900-2200 5.455 | 0800-2200 None
2200-2300 5.455 | 2200-2300 8.022 | 2200-2300 3.995
2300-2400 8.022 | 2300-2400 None | 2300-2400 8.022
===============================================================================
Chris
AnswerID: 244181

Reply By: obee - Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 18:14

Saturday, Jun 02, 2007 at 18:14
like the man said, time of day can have a lot to do with hf getting thru. Hf bounces off the ionosphere and skips over parts of the earth. The ionosphere reacts to radiation from the sun especially during the high sunspot activity parts of the sun cycle.

Owen

one time vk6us but no more.
AnswerID: 244202

Reply By: DarrynJ - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 15:12

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 15:12
Hi Tim, I see you are starting too have some luck with your HF. One thing I just thought of is too check the Negative battery terminal and the cable especially the small cable that goes to the body from the terminal as you are currently using the body for most of your earthing.
Regd's Darryn
AnswerID: 244375

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