Dare I ask, rifle question

Submitted: Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 19:54
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Can anyone recommend a good open sight .22LR rifle for target practice on a range (based on experience) please.

Where I'm located it's a fair drive to the closest suitable range for the larger calliper rifle I have. Hav'nt used a .22 in a long time, and now a bit out of touch with the different models etc.

I've looked at the Sako Quad but it requires a scope and a bit expensive for a second rifle.

Regards

Kim
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Reply By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:04

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:04
>Dare I ask

You, sure as hell may!

Some of us still have the logic to believe firearms are not the work of the devil....

However... I cannot answer your question... sorry.... :)

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: kimprado - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:14

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:14
Thanks Mike

I hope the question is answered without the usual hysteria.

Regards

Kim
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 22:19

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 22:19
The hysteria is usually generated by people who know absolutely nothing about the subject and when challenged on this reply they "don't want to know", "don't need to know" or "know enough" to pass judgement.

Ignorance, zealotry, self righteousness and fear generates all the hysteria. Sounds more than a little bit like the current anti 4x4 movement doesn't it?

Generally those who criticise do so from a position of close-minded ingorance. If they just gave it a fair go.............
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Follow Up By: HowdyDoody - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 12:39

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 12:39
I have to admit to being ong of the people challenged by fear thanks to an event many years ago. Since I have been totally anti-gun - and still have issues with some gun laws but learn to accept. Similar to not being able to decide who should procreate or not...
Alas, I now find myself in a situation where other half is geting his gun license. It is scary for me but has been an opportunity for me to explore the 'other side' of the gun debate.
Result: I am now getting my gun license too. This will allow me to hopefully get past my fear of the friggin things and also understand more about them. Not everybody is ignorant and stupid. People can kill with many things. Stupid people can still drive cars!
That's my rant for the day. I'm done now.
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Follow Up By: obee - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 15:40

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 15:40
well I know something about weapons, I used an m60 in Vietnam and did a bit of damage with it. I learned that is all they are good for unless you are in the business of killing things that need to be killed. I never understood why people want to punch holes in bits of cardboard with them. Call me hystericall if you like. I got a few names for gun nuts too.

Owen
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 16:35

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 16:35
Each to his own. I've never understood why people want to hit little balls with sticks either but if that's what floats their boat, that's their business.

I don't own or use any 'weapons' so it's never been an issue for me.

Anyway I do not wish to get into an argument with you as I respect your service. As I said, each to his own.
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 16:50

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 16:50
HowdyDoody,

Good to hear. It's always an advantage to look at a situation from the 'other' side.
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Reply By: guzzi - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:07

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:07
kimprado,
a great proportion of the newer rifles dont come with sights, and as such encourage you to telescopic sights.
Best bet is get in contact with your nearest gun shop and ask what's available.
There will be plenty of the older open sighted one's available second hand ranging from $100 ish up to "how much did sir wish to spend".
happy hunting
AnswerID: 244476

Reply By: Stu050 - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:18

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:18
G'day Kim,
Have a look around for a BRNO model 2. Excellent little rifle, 5 shot mag, will last forever.

You can chuck a scope on it when/if you get sick of the open sights.
Ask at your local gunshop, they may have one
AnswerID: 244484

Follow Up By: kimprado - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:33

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:33
Stu

Any idea of the MOA?

Regards

Kim
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Follow Up By: Stu050 - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:53

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:53
Kim,
Wouldn't have the foggiest, but should be good for 1MOA. I have never had one myself, just know that they are rugged little turnouts, and with the Czech BRNO reputation...tough as nails.
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Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 11:16

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 11:16
I'll admit ignorance, whats a MOA?

Thanks

Pete
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Follow Up By: deserter - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 16:35

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 16:35
MOA from memory is size of group for 5 shots. 1 MOA is 5 shots at 100 yd grouped in a 1 inch square. I think.
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Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 17:06

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 17:06
Thanks
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Follow Up By: Member - Hughesy (NSW) - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 22:04

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 22:04
Will back up the old BRNO. I have an original Model 1 but the Mod 2E is just as good. Very strong and rugged bolt action. Been out of the game for a while but I think MOA stands for Minute of Accuracy which is exactly what Deserter put in laymans terms anyway. Good luck.
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Reply By: 3F62 - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:25

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:25
Here, here for the BRNO 2E love mine.........
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Follow Up By: Stu050 - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:55

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:55
Use a Parker-Hale 22-250 myself....drive a nail into a tree at 100m.
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Follow Up By: Pezza (Bris) - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 17:00

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 17:00
Snipers didn't choose them as their weapon of choice for nothing Stu.

Cheers
Pezza
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 18:23

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 18:23
A 22-250 for snipers ????? Did'nt think it would have anything like the range required for military sniping Pezza.
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Follow Up By: Pezza (Bris) - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 18:52

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 18:52
You could be right Al, not 100% sure of the calibre, was definately Parker Hale's though.
I was 'Armoured', played with 9mm, 30 & 50 cal. 76 & 105mm, though I'm sure there's the odd ex Grunt lurking about here that will set me straight :-))

Cheers
Pezza
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Reply By: awill4x4 - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:55

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 20:55
I had a Brno model 2 many years ago when I did a bit of shooting and it was a nice little rifle but if it's target shooting you want to do I would be looking at a second hand Anschutz if you can find one.
I say if you can find one seriously, because those that have them hang on to them forever.
Regards Andrew.
AnswerID: 244495

Follow Up By: kimprado - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 21:18

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 21:18
Thanks Andrew

I think a Anschutz is a bit out of my league (even second hand).

What I should have mentioned is that I want to use a local range to keep the "eye in" (not competition shooting).

The other motivation is to get kids off the streets and into something that is structured, safety focussed and interesting.

Regards

Kim
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 21:38

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 21:38
>The other motivation is to get kids off the streets and into
>something that is structured, safety focussed and interesting.

An excellent initiative Kim. We don't live too far apart, let me know if I can help.

Are you aware there is a small bore club and range on McClelland Drive?

Mike Harding

mike_harding@fastmail.fm
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Follow Up By: warfer69 - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 21:59

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 21:59
Yeah mike he can take some pot shots at the Telstra boys that sit on their ass's all day,then they can limp down to the Peninsula Private ! ~(8--)
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Follow Up By: kimprado - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 22:26

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 22:26
Mike

Ken Morriss (President) is a mate of mine. He's a complete ratbag and can't keep his mouth closed for more than 2 Nano seconds. I've thought about using him as a target many times (Aussie mateship)!

If your interested in helping the kids in Cranbourne and Frankston give me a call on 97055467. Ken would certainely support a youth program.

Regards

Kim

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Reply By: V8Diesel - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 21:11

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 21:11
I concur, BRNO No.2 is just one of those 'right' designs. Arguably a classic. There are some excellent earlier examples around that were made prior to the huge factory fire in the 1960's that are pure gold but most pople know what they have and charge accordingly. The Shooters Journal has advertisements for the new ones in most issues so you can see what the look like.

As well as the Model 2, I also own a BRNO in .308W and CZ75B 9mm handgun for good measure. The Czech's sure know how to manufacture superb firearms IMO.

For fun plinking you simply can't go past the Taurus Model 62 pump action carbine. 12 shots, stainless steel, lightning fast pump design, lovely hand finished walnut stock and under $500. Be aware that a scope is not practical on these seeing as they have a 'top eject' action. They are a replica of the famous Winchester gallery gun but made with modern steel, manufacturing techniques and safety features. The other brillant feature is they are a quick takedown design so with the turn of gnurled screw they split in half making for a tiny package. A mate of mine chucks his the glovebox of his F250 it's that convenient. They are great fun and a perfect camp gun for inexpensive plinking. The ergonomics lend themselves well to smaller shooters well means everyone can have a go too.

Whatever you choose, don't forget to range test different ammo too. Each gun likes a different brand and you will find a 'sweet' combination with a bit of patience that will give you a life time of accurate and fun shooting.

Good luck!
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Follow Up By: kimprado - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 21:52

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 21:52
V8

Many thanks for that, I'll have a look next weekend.

Your dead right about the selection of ammo. I have a stainless .243 Sako with Leopold scope. I've tried a number of products. Final selection came down to Sako WIN 90 grain. Extremely accurate.

My only issue with this rifle, is that it's very heavy.

Regards

Kim
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Follow Up By: awill4x4 - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 22:33

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 22:33
Mmmmmm Sako, I still have many good memories of my Sako .222 heavy barrel Varminter with bedded action and fully floating barrel topped with a Leupold 6.5-20X40 AO scope. By far the most accurate rifle I ever owned (around 0.5-0.7 MOA), especially with handloads. Sold all my firearms a couple of years after the kids were born as they weren't getting used, damn I miss the sport now.
Regards Andrew.
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Reply By: Gerhardp1 - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 23:07

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 23:07
Many years ago we used to provide our meat with a .22 Browning pump action.

This was quite a long rifle with no scope mount at all, and very accurate. Dad wouldn't accept a rabbit for food unless it was a head shot, and the rifle made it relatively easy.

My mum handed it in to Johnny Howard fearing they would find it in her locked cabinet.

What a bummer - my fondest memento of my dad gone.
AnswerID: 244544

Reply By: Member - Tim - Stratford (VIC) - Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 23:48

Sunday, Jun 03, 2007 at 23:48
Kim,

I'd agree with the Anschultz, although you're right with the $$$. Another rifle that is pretty good quality is the Rugers - very accurate once you sus out the right ammo it likes.

I've got a few c/o- Mr Howard and Mr Bracks after handing in the semi-autos and handguns....Few other toys with the money too....
AnswerID: 244553

Reply By: True Blue - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 00:41

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 00:41
What is meant by the term MOA?
AnswerID: 244559

Follow Up By: Member - Ed. C. (QLD) - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 01:14

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 01:14
Minute Of Angle ...
or 1/60 of 1 degree ...

Broadly speaking, a rifle which shoots a group (usually 5 shots) inside an inch at 100yards, is said to shoot "MOA"....

Bit more to it than that, but you get the idea;-))
Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

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Follow Up By: guzzi - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 18:51

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 18:51
roughly equates to 1 inch at 100 yards or 30mm at 100m
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Reply By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 07:22

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 07:22
Quite like my little CZ actually, though that is lonely on this page. Haven't used the others mentioned as a rifle is just a tool here, as was the semi auto before......
AnswerID: 244570

Follow Up By: Batman69 - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 09:10

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 09:10
Have to agree,

My CZ is a great little rifle, very accurate and reasonably priced. I don't reckon anyone would go wrong by getting one.

Steve.
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Follow Up By: Nick R (VIC) - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 09:34

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 09:34
What? don't ya like the BSA single shot???
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Follow Up By: Des Lexic - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 10:58

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 10:58
Nick, I grew up with one of them and as long as I aimed an inch out at 10.30, it would hit everytime.
Went on to bigger bangers a bit later on and could hit most things I aimed at up to about a k away. All with peep sights too, none of this nancy pancy telescopic stuff.
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 11:40

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 11:40
CZ is BRNO for all intents and purposes. They are the same gun. BRNO is the town and factory of manufacture (they used to be marketed in Australia as BRNO) and CZ (Czecha Zbrovska?) is what they are now called worldwide. There is more to it than that but that is the gist of it. It suspect it may be to do with the communist to capitalist change of government.

I should have pointed that out in my earlier response. It's a bit like Datsun becoming Nissan or National changing to Panasonic. I don't think you can buy a firearm marketed as BRNO anymore.

Just read CZ where BRNO is written.
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 13:14

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 13:14
V8D, you made me feel better, I thought I must be a cheapskate.

Hey Nick, I noticed who borrows the 10 shot magazine.. LOL Just like I borrow a certain shottie in preference to my double barrel.
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Follow Up By: Batman69 - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 13:16

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 13:16
Nick R,

Yep I have a BSA single shot as well, don't use it, but it's OK.

Hey Des, Try shooting with a spotlight at night without a fancy pants telescopic sight and see how you go, especially out to 300 or 400 yards. ;-)

Steve.
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Follow Up By: Nick R (VIC) - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 19:07

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 19:07
I'll stick with the Browning A5 mostly, I still have better than 100% hit ratio.
Nick
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Follow Up By: Pete and Lez S.A. - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 21:31

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 21:31
V8Diesel, You will find they are called CZ now because they have not been made in the town of BRNO for around 10 or 12 years now.
Cheers Peter and Lez
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 07:55

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 07:55
Hi Kim

With the low cost of scopes , all of mine have had them for a long time now and the really do assist (me!) , I can also reccomend the 5 shot bolt action Brno. We recently tried out two , mine with scope and brothers new one without scope and with scope he was able to hit a coke can 2 out of 3 shots at 160 meters which is well beyond range I would use one at. With the open sites hit rate was 1 in 5 which I guess just shows value of same.

Prefer my winchester action 11 shot 22 magnum though as a rifle as the extra power is great on foxes and the increasing number of rabbits at ramge. The lever action is also less likely to be moved when riding bikes/horses.

Robin Miller
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Reply By: Steve63 - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 11:53

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 11:53
Depends what you are going to do with it. If it is target then it will need either apature or a scope anyway. You can't practice with open sites, be there done that and it is a waste of time. If you are looking second hand you can get a good BRNO or SAKO. The SAKO will require a scope but you see the heavy barrel version for $300 - 400 at times. Off a bench my SAKO does a group < 1" at 100 yards. Seat and post I can consistantly shoot 1 1/2" groups. The ammo is more important anyway. Either Fedral Ultra Match or RWS R100 (I think it is) bring my groups at 100 yards from 2" to 1" off the bench.

Steve
AnswerID: 244613

Reply By: Moose - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 13:54

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 13:54
G'day Kim
Good to see that there are a few of us like minded people on this forum.
Mate I can't offer much in the way of a direct answer because my .22 is a lowly Stirling (which incidentally has served me well for many moons).
You may like to post your question on the forum on this site www.australianhunting.net - being dedicated to firearms you may well get a few more suggestions.
Cheers from the Moose
AnswerID: 244647

Reply By: 3F62 - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 17:57

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 17:57
Kimprado,
Although i have a CZ (Brno) a cheaper alternative might be a 2nd hand Norinco JW15 a copy of the CZ made about 15 yrs ago & most shot very well for a cheapie rifle........ be surprized if they were anymore than $150 for a good one if you can find one..... I paid $133 new for one in about 1988...... & it was as accurate as a mates model 1 BRNO although not as pretty.......

Cheers
AnswerID: 244701

Reply By: Willem - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 18:10

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 18:10
I have a lovely old Mauser .22 with open sights. I wonder if they still make them.

I take it up to the Flinders every now and then and practise on some goats. Must be losing my touch as my aim these days is woeful. Nevertheless the rifle despatched cat number two the other day. Big Fat Tom cat doing disturbing things in my yard. Tough too, that cat. Took 2 bullets.
AnswerID: 244705

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 18:14

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 18:14
Oh no !!! Not again :)))))))))))))))))))
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Follow Up By: Nick R (VIC) - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 18:57

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 18:57
Goats in the flinders? cool, I'll bring the browing A5 and you bring the rotisserie, 2 or 3 goats should feed the national gathering!!!

only kidding, not the place for firearms......
Nick
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Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 19:11

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 19:11
Gramps....LOL

Nick R

Yes. You may hunt at Warraweena too. But not the Nat Gathering Weekend. There are still around 5000 goats on the property. In the summer when the countryside dries up a bit the goats come right down to water. They are caught and trucked away if the price is right. Hunters come out regularly.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 19:19

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 19:19
NIck

For a moment I thought you were a Latin scholar. But No! To quote the words of Hannibal. Ah but he had elephants.. You only had a dodgy winch....LOL

Liked the one about the 2 pumpkins...lol

Yeah got your registration. Now you will aslo have to bring someone to replace Nick R Visitor!!!

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Nick R (VIC) - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 19:22

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 19:22
I'll see what I can do
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Follow Up By: kimprado - Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 19:24

Monday, Jun 04, 2007 at 19:24
Gidday Willem

Don't you love old age?

I'm getting as blind as a bat, and it does'nt help that I've had my trigger finger ripped off. Sometime I get careless and have the stump in the wrong place during recoil. The antics when this happens appears to entertain onlookers!

LOL

Regards

Kim
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