Sandflies/Midgees - When and Where?

Submitted: Tuesday, Jul 03, 2007 at 20:31
ThreadID: 47379 Views:23308 Replies:14 FollowUps:7
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OK. So this might seem like a dumb question but we dont have those tiny nasty little beasties to contend with down here in Tassie!
We are travelling through the centre to Darwin and then across to Cairns starting at the beginning of August. I am guessing some places are worse than others with them. What I am wondering is are they around only at at dusk or day or night or 24/7 or what? Wondering about the need to fit our caravan with some smaller fly mesh so we can keep the windows open of a night.
As I said sorry if this is a dumb question but this is our first trip north.
Thanks!
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Reply By: On Patrol (Aust.) - Tuesday, Jul 03, 2007 at 21:17

Tuesday, Jul 03, 2007 at 21:17
live4theweekends
Got bitten buy the little buggers from Townsville to The Cape, including the Cairns area, last month. We just got rid of the spots this week.
Colin.
AnswerID: 250599

Follow Up By: On Patrol (Aust.) - Tuesday, Jul 03, 2007 at 21:27

Tuesday, Jul 03, 2007 at 21:27
PS Nth of Cairns we got bitten at any time of day.
Colin
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FollowupID: 511745

Reply By: tryonreef - Tuesday, Jul 03, 2007 at 21:32

Tuesday, Jul 03, 2007 at 21:32
Dusk and day light seem to be the worst for midges in my experience and get through standard tent inscect screens quite easily. Quite often even repellent will not stop them from biting ,make sure that you camp in a spot that has a considerable breeze as this may help to help keep them at bay...Scott
AnswerID: 250605

Reply By: vuduguru - Tuesday, Jul 03, 2007 at 22:57

Tuesday, Jul 03, 2007 at 22:57
No dumb question!

I'm from NSW. We hired and camper van in Perth to drive to Monkey Mia. I think it was late Autumn / Early winter. We camped on Lancelin Beach... About 6 in the morning, I arose for an early morning reconnaissance.... OK, a wee, and as I walked out of the the camper van door, I turned and looked back at the CV, ( door was still open). To witness the "flock of midges" leapng off the outside wall and diveing into the van's interior. Mortien finally fixed them but we were sweeping them out for the rest of the trip!
So ...... take fin e scren
Regards
Shane
AnswerID: 250627

Reply By: Member - Brett C (WA) - Tuesday, Jul 03, 2007 at 23:58

Tuesday, Jul 03, 2007 at 23:58
My wife's a Pom and she cops every little niggly bite from sand flies to mozzies. Best thing she used was either SCRAM or RID. RID's great after you get bitten as well because it has an antiseptic in it, those cans are a must to have with you!
AnswerID: 250635

Reply By: Member - Graham K (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 03:46

Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 03:46
I have researched "critter deterrents" pretty thoroughly on the web ...some say taking vitamin B pills helps to deter them and certainly wearing long sleeves and long trousers morning and evening is a must. As far as creams or roll ons are concerned the magic ingredient that stops them is called "DEET" whatever that is but rid and aeroguard don't have that ingredient or at best in very low levels. My wife just found one called ...................at the local chemist that has 20% DEET so will be trying that out in Arnhem Land in a couple of weeks time. Someone else on this forum a few months ago mentioned that some good camping shops stock one with 30% DEET but I am 400kms away from the nearest camping shop so don't know about that.
Regards
Graham
AnswerID: 250639

Follow Up By: Member - Graham K (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 08:07

Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 08:07
Sorry forgot the name ...it is "Repel" and has 30% DEET which is Diethyltoluamide
hope this helps
Graham
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FollowupID: 511797

Follow Up By: Thenewme - Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 20:23

Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 20:23
Hi Graham,

there is a product that you can purchase that is 80% Deet, I think it is actually an Australian product, one of the product comes along with a sunscreen inbedded.

This is the link to their home page, you can also order online.

www.bushman-repellent.com/index.htm

Hope this helps your wife out.

Cheers
Kate

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FollowupID: 511936

Follow Up By: Thenewme - Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 20:29

Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 20:29
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Cheers



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FollowupID: 511937

Reply By: Kevndeb - Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 08:36

Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 08:36
In the morning newspaper on Saturday ( The West), the health department urged people to cover up, as there had been alot of unseasonal rain in the Kimberlys and mozzie borne disease could break out because there is alot of water lying around.

Nicole Kidman and Hugh Jackman's filming for the " Australia " movie has also been delayed because of the rain. Can't have the outback looking like a swap. The movie is being filmed on Carlton Hill Station as the fictitious Faraway Downs... that was also in the paper
AnswerID: 250654

Reply By: Wizard1 - Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 08:41

Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 08:41
These critters tend to be more prevelant near mudflat areas like mangroves or bays that "dry" out at low tideand the surrounding bush. They can travel inland a fair way so don't thing you'll get away from them. As you are travelling mostly inland it should be too much of a problem.

If staying in Darwin, Lee Point caravan park is in midgie central.

Worst time of the year is from near the wet season or build up (late Sep) to few weeks after the wet finishes.

If you try and fit smaller mesh you will almost certainly block most of your ventilation. One of the best ways to keep them at bay is the old fashion mozzie coils and try and run a fan if you can just to keep the air moving.

Good repellants like Bushman's is a must as well as covering all exposed skin at dusk and dawn.
AnswerID: 250655

Reply By: MEMBER - Darian (SA) - Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 09:40

Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 09:40
We've just been camper-trailering up the QLD coast from Mackay to Cooktown for about 4 weeks - great to see and experience the wet tropics for the first time, but I'll not be back there until I move to a caravan ! Our observation is that the majority of travelers along the coast are in vans or motorhomes - campers like ours where its easy to live 'outdoors' featured more in the drier inland. The insects did 'test our resolve' seriously at times because we mainly spend our time outside the camper in the evenings - burning coils and sticks - spraying on the usual expensive gear and even making our own sparys, from recipes offered on the trail ! Mozzies are no problem - they you can feel - the worst ones are a lot smaller than mozzies - probably sand flies - known to the islander natives as "don't see ems" - you sit around at night, don't see insects or feel any bites and then wake the next day with blotches all over your legs. That said, some individuals seem to get left alone by the bugs - but most travelers we spoke to about camping in general were very wary of them........ seems with good reason.... quite a few signs in various conveniences up there about the need to avoid some of those tropical, insects born diseases.
AnswerID: 250671

Reply By: Mainey (WA) - Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 16:59

Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 16:59
live4theweekends,
ask a Doctor for their medical opinion of the benefits of "Mega B" multivitamin tablets !!

Start taking them 2 weeks before you leave home and it gets into your blood stream and the little critters will leave you alone - while you continue to take them.

I've been in a tinny fishing the mangroves with two other guys and they were bitten relentlessly, I was bite free. Have heard 'Garlic & horseradish' tablets also work ok.
AnswerID: 250726

Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 17:59

Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 17:59
I can assure you, everbody is effected differently by these little buggers. You won't know your response till you get there. So the remedy for one, might not do much for someone else.

Kathryn and I spent 6 weeks in the Gulf (NT side), earlier this year. She took Vitamin B for 3 months before we went and continued during the trip. She used every spray mentioned on this thread so far except one. But many others as well. She used mozie coils, the new Raid lamp burners, long sleeves etc. In short everything known to man and some not.

Well she was still bitten relentlessly. Even got bitten through the material with long sleeved shirts. Had lumps the size of saucers some times.

The most effective (though not fully effective) were:
The Raid lamp burner, but they are expensive. Cost us about $5.00 per day to run them.
Baby oil, metho and tea tree tree oil (I think that was her mixture). But she was oily and uncomfortable all day when she used it.
DEET 80% also worked, but you wouldn't use that every day or your legs and arms would fall off. Used it only sparingly when crabbing etc.

We used a screen tent for a while and that kept them out, but as mentioned above, it also kept any breeze out. When the temp is 38 C, you need whatever breeze you can get.

So, we are still looking for a remedy. We spoke to our GP on return and he had no answer that she had not tried.

Although I get bitten, they are only a mild discomfort unless swarming. I get no real after effects.

Clearly Kathryn and others like her have something the migies need or like. Something I don't have.

We are still going back next year - for at least 12 weeks next time. Lucky she is tough and enjoys the fishing.
AnswerID: 250738

Follow Up By: Harry - Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 22:48

Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 22:48
G'day Norm,
I have camped next to waterholes in the gulf on my stretcher with an ARMY mossie net suspended over the full length of my stretcher and making sure it is tucked in to keep the beggars out, and it works breeze and all. I made the 4 legs needed to hold up the net and they fitted onto the stretcher, but I'm pretty sure I've seen a manufactured 1 in the disposals. Some of the nets available are not fine enough so beware.
The Army nets are super fine and nothing seems to get through.
I also use Bushman plus. It has 80% deet and it will be safe to use all day, the American Army uses it. If it was detrimental to your health it wouldn't be on the market in 24 countries.
In a tent situation, safety pins would probably hold the tie strings pinned to the roof of your tent or use a waterproof glue to install canvas tags for pinning or tying to.
Hope this might help.
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FollowupID: 511963

Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Thursday, Jul 05, 2007 at 08:48

Thursday, Jul 05, 2007 at 08:48
Harry, I'm not sure that 'If it was detrimental to your health it wouldn't be on the market in 24 countries' is necessarily true.

My statement that 'DEET 80% also worked, but you wouldn't use that every day or your legs and arms would fall off', was made somewhat tongue in cheek, but the concept was based on some simple research.

For example, Canada no longer registers (and has cancelled past registrations of) any DEET product with concentrations over 30%. THey also recommend that concentratios over 10% not be used on children under 12 years.
The American Acadamy of Pediatrics recommends that DEET of over 10% concentration not be used on children. You would think there would be a reason for this.

One web site I looked at listed some of the suspected effects of prolonged exposure to high concentrations of DEET. They included head ache, rashes, convulsions and death. Not sure how scientific any review was though.

Suffice to say, we are happy to use DEET, but avoid high concentrations. We carry some 80% cream, but rarely use it.

Interestingly, I found 2 references (American EPA and Canadian Health Dept) where tests have shown that the repellant effect of DEET levels out at concentrations of around 30% (but up to 50% in a few cases). Effectively they are saying that there is no benefit in using concentrations above 30 to 50% in any case.

Also, they found that (in the lab on mosquitos), the concentration level of DEET has a greater effect on length of protection that level. 10 % gave 1.5 to 3 hours protection. 24% gave 3 to 6 hours protection.

I'll keep my eye out for a product with about 30% (haven't see one yet), and for the moment accept that as a good compromise between repellant and health.

Our camper trailer has fine mesh. Once inside for the night, there is generally no problem, But you don't go to the Gulf for a 6 week fishing trip and stay inside the CT all day. Unless in bed, we spend our time outside.

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FollowupID: 511990

Reply By: Bros 1 - Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 18:57

Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 18:57
live4theweekends,
Type in "biting midge" to a Google search for more info.
Cheers,
bros.
Work is the curse of the down and out bludger.

Lifetime Member
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AnswerID: 250756

Reply By: Bros 1 - Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 19:00

Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 19:00
live4theweekends,
medent.usyd.edu.au/fact/bitmidge.htm
Try that.
Cheers,
Bros.
Work is the curse of the down and out bludger.

Lifetime Member
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AnswerID: 250758

Reply By: bundy - Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 19:11

Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 19:11
i'll dispel some myths for you here.
number 1: in darwin here, it is prime sandfly season right now! the little buggers are breeding like nothing else.
that doesn't mean we don't have them all other times of the year, just means we have lots more right now :)
Rid has deet in it. and Rid and Bushman are the only 2 repellants to use, and use it lots. especially at dusk, but they will get you at all times.
Midge screen for windows is invaluable, because they WILL get in! and they will bite you all night.
if you aren't used to getting bitten by midges, then you will more than likely come up in big tourist welts.. they make you stand out like dogs nuts in a crowd! :)
once they have got you, stingose is good relief.
if you don't want to use all those poisons like deet, then a mix of baby oil and dettol works well.. but watch out for the sun.
another really good one to use is reef oil, and lay it on thick, and they just get stuck to your legs, and can't bite.. but you will get thousands of little black dots all over your legs :)
AnswerID: 250764

Follow Up By: live4theweekends - Thursday, Jul 05, 2007 at 15:57

Thursday, Jul 05, 2007 at 15:57
Thanks. I generally get eaten by mossies down here in Tas so figuring I will porbably get eaten up there by sandflies too. Hopefully by the time we get there they will have 'thinned out' a little!
Decided to put some finer mesh on our van windows too.

Cheers
L4W
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FollowupID: 512044

Reply By: Member - Graham K (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 22:03

Wednesday, Jul 04, 2007 at 22:03
Thanks for the thread guys I have ordered the Bushman product already. This sort of input through this forum makes it the most valuable source of information that any outback traveller could ask for. Lets spread the Exploroz word.
Graham
AnswerID: 250824

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