Do I need a turbo timer ?

Submitted: Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 01:05
ThreadID: 52330 Views:7170 Replies:14 FollowUps:19
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Hi all,
What do you blokes think, do I need a Timer on my new 70 series TDV8 ?
I would have thought if I needed one they would have put one on, but we are talking Toyo here, even the ac was an extra.

It will be working hard somedays.....11/2 ton on the back and dragging heavy 22ft van.

would appreciate your opinion's.

Cheers................BIGDOG
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Reply By: Trekkie (Member - WA) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 01:19

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 01:19
Certainly cannot hurt - its a bit like insurance and will only cost several hundred dollars
AnswerID: 275403

Reply By: Peter 2 - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 06:06

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 06:06
As long as you are aware that they are 'illegal' and are probably not really necessary on an engine that is severely understressed in standard form, has a water cooled turbo to boot. As long as you are aware that on occasions you need to idle down for a minute or so after say climbing a big hill and then pulling up at a lookout or lunch spot there shouldn't be any worry.
I've had one on a petrol sedan for many years but it is sorely needed as underbonnet and turbo temps are extreme after a hard run, read orange glow under the car at night after stopping!!!
AnswerID: 275414

Follow Up By: Axel [ the real one ] - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:48

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:48
Please explain the why " illegal " ,, yes it is illegal to leave a vehicle unatended with the motor running ,but nowhere is a turbo timer illegal ??
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:50

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:50
That's right it is not "illegal" to have a turbo timer. It is illegal to leave your vehicle while it is running.

Having said that I have an automatic turbo timer, and all I can say is that you don't need one if you always let the engine run for a minute or two so if you plan to turn off the engine immediately after working it hard. i.e. after pulling into a servo off the freeway, or driving through soft sand etc.

After normal "town driving" it only ever needs to idle for 10-15 secs.

Hope that helps.

R
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Follow Up By: Wizard1 - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 12:00

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 12:00
So what about the hundreds of semis that are left running until they idle down?

Lets all get a grip. I'm sure you won't have a plod suddenly pull over as you idle down in a rest area.

Most modern turbos really only need to idle down after being run at high revs/speed ( 80 - 100 kph)for an extended period and come to a stop without gradual slow down. Like highway cruising and just pulling up for a 10 minute rest. So how often would you be doing that?

The average Joe going to work at 60 kph really doesn't need to use a turbo timer.

You can set some of them to just turn off when you turn the ignition off.

We pull up, by the time I've had a stretch, opened the van up to let the MRS in and done a few other things the time would have passed where I can turn the engine off. Being doing that for years without a Turbo Timer.
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Follow Up By: Wizard1 - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 13:20

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 13:20
@ $ 260 from ARB, fitted, I think I'll keep doing what I've been doin'
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Follow Up By: Member - Lance S (VIC) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 15:12

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 15:12
Wizard 1, doing 100ks on a freeway is easy on the turbo unless u give a bit of stick every now and then, but at 60ks, if u are doing hard driving ie; lots of hills, giving it the boot and it might only be for 10-15 minutes of driving, but its harder on the turbo then cruising at 100kph, i always idle down my 4by and the work vehicles for 3 minutes.

cheers, Lance
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Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 07:10

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 07:10
It does not hurt to 'run down' any engine at any time. Just keep it idleing for a couple of minutes if you have been pushing it hard and just pulled over. If you have been doing some slow suburban running for several minutes I would not bother.
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Reply By: Member -Signman - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 09:06

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 09:06
Fit an EGT gauge. Then you'll be able to see when things have cooled down enough to switch off !! With the added benefit of monitoring your exhaust temps when dragging the van up long hills..


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Follow Up By: Member - Hughesy (NSW) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:39

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:39
Got to agree with Signman on this one. Money better spent in my opion on an EGT Gauge that does 2 jobs for less than the price of a turbo timer.

I just bought an Auto Meter EGT Gauge from the US including delivery for $163. Money well spent.
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Reply By: Gronk - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 09:18

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 09:18
Had one on my previous 4x4 but none on my current one ??

Think they are a good idea for a bit of peace of mind....can't think of any bad points ( except the price ?? )

Good if you are a bit forgetful, but as said, let it idle for 30secs (or so ) after a hard run !!!

As for illegal, 1/2 the 4x4's on this site are probably illegal ( trye sizes, lifts, etc )..........only thing illegal is leaving the 4x4 running while unattended....mine normally shut down while I was no further than 50M away......I think the only time you would have a problem is if the 4x4 caught fire while it was unattended and the insurance company could find a reason to decline insurance !!!
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Follow Up By: DIO - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:03

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:03
Insurance company isn't the biggest problem. Enforcement by Police should be your main concern. Expiation Notices also carry Demerit Points. Purpose of such legislation is to reduce/prevent theft of vehicles - particularly delivery (type) configurations. As for TT. shouldn't think there's anything illegal about them except for the fact the vehicle is (maybe) left unattended with engine running (grounds for offence).
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Reply By: ross - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 09:49

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 09:49
If a turbo timer is fitted ,can you still turn the engine off in an emergency?
If you cant,then I could see a problem with them being illegal.
AnswerID: 275463

Follow Up By: Rossco td105 - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:01

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:01
Ross,

Yes, all the turbo timers I have seen (and the one I use) has a stop button. The engine can be stopped at any time.

Ross.
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Reply By: Baldrick - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:18

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:18
Carrying 1.5 tonnes will be illegal anyway so what's one more thing. ;-)
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Reply By: mfewster - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:57

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:57
I have had turbos on 2 diesels. The one without a timer had problems and failed after less than 50000Km. The one with a timer has been trouble free (so far at least.) My diesel mechanic strongly recommended a timer and EGT gauge. He claims that when a turbo has been running hot, if the engine is turned off, the oil that has been circulating through the turbo unit simply sits in there and bakes onto the innards and stuffs them up and keeping oil circulating through the turbo until EGT fell below 200C was the answer, especially when running hot in cold conditions. The interior of the unit that failed for me seemed to support this. I had done quite a lot of running in Central Oz in cold winter nights and always just turned the engine off. I now look at the EGT when I stop and decide whether I need to use the timer or not. Any reading over 200C and the timer goes on. I don't know whether the different turbo unit or the procedure gets the credit. Since using the timer/EGT combo in this way I have had no problems and I would fit the same setup again.
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 11:24

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 11:24
Most insurance companies wont allow them.

They are not needed, had one in the GQ, it was a wank.. Not bothering with one in the GU.
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 11:46

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 11:46
After all the posts about GU 3.0's having terminal problems from heat I would think it would be a very good idea.
They are not expensive any way .Bought mine from Autobarn $59 3 wires to connect, no probs and away we go.
Just dont park it in front of Mr Plods place
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Follow Up By: Member - Lance S (VIC) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 12:18

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 12:18
I can show u 3 turbos at work that didn't have a timer and lasted less then 12 months with damaged bearings and broken shaft, put timers on theses 3 vehicles and turbos still going, and that was 5 years ago.
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Follow Up By: Wizard1 - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 13:22

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 13:22
Lance,

how much of that damage could have been avoided by a little time spent on educating the drivers of the vehicles?
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Follow Up By: mfewster - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 14:06

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 14:06
See my previous post in this thread. I think the EGT gauge is more important than the timer. It tells you when you need to keep it running and when it is OK to turn it off and if you are happy to be around the vehicle, turning ignition off by hand is fine. The gauge takes out the guesswork. I live at the top of a big hill and the EGT is always over 200 when I get home, so I use the timer when I go into the house. Going downhill into town I never use it. Country running, especially with a big trailer behind me and especially if I have gone up any hills, I always check the EGT before deciding whether or not to let it idle. Lance S description of the turbo bearings/shaft matches what happened to my first turbo.
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Follow Up By: Member - Lance S (VIC) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 15:03

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 15:03
Wizard, i think it is worth the insurance of the timer as trying to educate some of the drivers at our work is like smashing your head against a brick wall.
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Follow Up By: Axel [ the real one ] - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 15:41

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 15:41
" most insurance companies wont allow them " ,,, funny that my turbo timer is a specific included accessory along with the rest of the"added" on gear such as bullbar ect ect ect .
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:17

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:17
3 insurance companies I called when TCIS and 4wd Vic few yrs back seperated wouldnt allow TTimers. Peasant on phone couldnt tell me why.

Plenty of things are listed on policys doesnt mean bleep really. like people with 6inch lifts and 35's listed on policys with no engineers.
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 13:59

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 13:59
Todays modern vehicles use the latest in bearing materials and run on synthetic oils its pretty obvious why all the manufacturers don't fit TT's as a standard accessory.
You will notice its not just Yota that don't fit them!!
Simply speaking you don't need one.

If your really concerned then as others have said just let the vehicle idle after you stop for a minute of two then turn off.
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Follow Up By: mfewster - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 15:32

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 15:32
I've been thinking about this. The problem wasn't the bearings in the engine, it was the bearings in the turbo. The issue was caused by the oil "cooking" inside the turbo because when the engine is switched off the oil stops circulating through the turbo. The carbon like coating just accumulated and stuffed up the turbo unit. $2000 to fix. When very hot, those turbo units are glowing, it's the turbo you are letting cool down, not the engine. I have no idea whether synthetic oils would bake on in the same way or not
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:08

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:08
Your vehicle will be using synthetic oil and it should be the stuff specified for a TD vehicle to cope with the high temps developed in the turbo. your carbon build up make be caused by non spec oil??

The materials used throughout as I said are designed for the current service and temps.

Poor engineering design in engines such as the 3.0 L Nissan engines won't be overcome by oil or use of a TT.

If the vehicle required a TT and non use of same caused problems then we would be seeing a huge number of major failure's in all brands of TD vehicles.
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Follow Up By: mfewster - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:17

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:17
John, I'm still not certain whether or not we are talking about the same thing. I'm not talking about engine design/failure, only about the turbo unit failure- and there is plenty of that around. The problem may be more relevant to aftermarket turbos. Certainly both my units were aftermarket. The different cooling set up on intercooler turbos may alter things also.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:27

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:27
Oil for the Turbo comes from the engine.
Yours being an aftermarket and failed was more likely a case of poor set up by the supplier involved.
Most OEM supplied TD engines such as Toyota (except for the 3.0L Nissan) maintain a very high reliability rate as the engine has been built from the ground up to be Turbo compatible in virtually all aspects.
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Reply By: PeterInSA - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:56

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:56
TT Problems,
I am wary of problems with my TT way out in the bush ie I cannot stop the engine. I will need to pull the thing apart and hopefully short out the switch to kill the Turbo Diesel Yota. A challenge I will not enjoy especially at night.

In hindsight would prefer not to have the TT and just idle the engine for a couple of minutes after a long drag of our van.

I have not had a problem yet and don't expect one. but.

Peter
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Reply By: Member - BIGDOG G (WA) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 17:17

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 17:17
Thank you to all who replied, You have given much food for thought.

Regards to all............BIGDOG
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Reply By: Kevndeb - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 20:31

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 20:31
I have TT, I can't lock the car/leave it till the motor stops. I have found one problem though, when I drive around with headlights on, I do this regularly because we live in a semi rural area, and had so many near misses, having the headlights on is a safety issue, for me, anyway and I get out of the car, and hang around for the car to run down, I usually forget about the headlights....and they don't switch themselves off, like some fancy cars....and more then once I have forgotten about the headlights....luckily the battery is forgiving....

My TT can be increased to 5 and 7 minutes, at the moment it is 1 minute



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Reply By: Gronk - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 23:27

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 23:27
I think most missed the point......any factory turbo will have a sticker somewhere advising to idle the 4x4 after high speed running ( also = heavy towing etc )

All a turbo timer does is do this for you if you're the sort of person who may forget to !!!!!

No engine oil is designed to withstand excessive temps in the turbo housing...hence the idle down signs ( may even be in the handbook )

Only reason manufacturers don't fit them is market demand !!
Not enough people ask for them, so they don't fit them..
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