Which will last the distance
Submitted: Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:15
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Stephen M (NSW)
Hi all, before I ask I'm not after a Toyota/Nissan/Mitsi debate. I'm having a discussion here with a mate and the question is : Would say a 4.2 t/d engine either cruiser/patrol outlast say a hilux/navara/mitsi any of the four cylinder t/d's when towing heavy loads say 1.5 to 2 tonne vans/trailers etc. I reckon the 4.2 t/d cruiser/patrols would outlast the others due to them been such a big lumpy motor and not as highly strung as I will put it as the 4 cylinder ones. My mate reckons the four cylinder ones will out last as they are high tech and in general have higher output in power/torque that they are not driven as hard and don't have the boot down as much. Yes I agree with him about the power stakes/torque in the smaller engines compared to some of the bigger ones but Im talking longetivety on the engine.Just wondering what the general consensus is on this. I'm talking t/d's only not petrol and presuming the vehicles have been
well serviced all the usual stuff. Regards Steve M
Reply By: stefan P (Penrith NSW) - Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:26
Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:26
no substitute for cubic inches!!!!
AnswerID:
279907
Follow Up By: Stephen M (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 14:58
Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 14:58
Hi Stefan, sounds exactly like my old man use to say. Raving on a bit but I remember when my oldies had a caravan and I had one and I remember pulling up through the hills at Bulladela (spelling) heading towards Forster and I had an old HZ premier 308 5 litre and my old man had a VJ 265 4.3L hemi 6 cylinder and pulling through the hills when it come to two lanes Id click the auto back to second and put the boot into it and the old man would cruise up the side of me sound
the horn,wave then boot it he'd click the auto back to second and pull away from me and the vans were identical he'd have a good laugh as I had the big brock exhaust system (back in those days) sounded the part but geeze the old vals had some low down grunt. The funny thing was I would already be back in second climbing and he wouldnt click it back till he was beside me and still out pull me. Being trying to find the specs on the old vals compared to the old HZ but cant find them anywhere. Would be interesting to see the specs between the two. Regards Steve M
FollowupID:
544124
Reply By: ben_gv3 - Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:31
Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:31
Why not have the best of both worlds? Go the new Toyota V8 T/D!!!!! ;-p
Actually I would say the 4.2 T/D. Even though it's low-tech compared to the 4-bangers it doesn't have to work as hard to move the heavy weights.
Having a lumpy 6 cylinder is better then a screaming 4 cylinder.
AnswerID:
279908
Follow Up By: Stephen M (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 15:00
Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 15:00
Hi Ben thanks. Yeah when I win Lotto or in 20 years time when there a 1/4 of the price LOL. Regards Steve M
FollowupID:
544126
Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:46
Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:46
4 my money it would be the 4.2TD. Towing exclusively is its domain IMHO. Day in day out it will do it easier, not at 130khm but it will get you there and back more times that any of the four cylinders
AnswerID:
279909
Reply By: Peter 2 - Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:51
Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:51
Yep, no substitute for cubes, a lazy motor with torque down low will always outlast a smaller engine working hard at the outer end of the envelope.
We have a typical example in the two Nissan motors, 6cyl 4.2 TD or 3 litre 4 cylinder which has had many failures.
Personally I'll stick with low tech as
well, less to go wrong and you are not travelling at the whim of a little black box. Also these common rail electronic injected engines seem to have difficulty with dirty fuel, dirty fuel = blocked injectors which need replacement at horrendous cost.
AnswerID:
279910
Reply By: Member - Alan H (Narangba QLD - Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:57
Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 11:57
Longlivity is based on speed and torque band. A lot of 4cyl have to rev higher to reach an acceptable torque band.
Check out the torque band and engine revs.
My old 4.2 will pull all day sitting on 2400-2500 revs. Any engine moving at a fast rev will wear sooner. It has great torque if the rpm is kept 2000+
The toyota V8 has a torque band starting about 1200rpm
V8 racing cars at 7000-8000 rpm do not do 300-500k without work. They constantly rebuild them due to wear at high speed.
AnswerID:
279912
Reply By: Neil & Pauline - Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 12:16
Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 12:16
Stephen
I had some concerns on the same lines but ended up buying 2004 Pajero DID. Why my decision was based on the fact that it had a long stoke (more torque) and slower reving. I have since met owners of 2 Pajeros that have done 400,000 and 450,000 klms.
I have done 130,000 klm towing 2.5tonne and very happy.
As to the number of cylinders the old motors like a Landz Tractor was only single cylinder and went for years. Admittedly a big cylinder. The Kobota motors are high reving but they are long lasting.
My conclusion is there is no standard answer but comes down to quality of materials, design and build.
Neil
AnswerID:
279914
Follow Up By: madfisher - Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 22:55
Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 22:55
Actually I have head of Lanz bulldogs doing 10000 hours and that was 50 years ago
Cheers Pete
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Member - Barnesy (SA) - Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 12:24
Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 12:24
I would lean towards the larger 4.2. As others have said it doesn't have to work as hard to tow.
The 2002 turbo diesel Courier I've driven peaks out at 100 kmh and at 110 starts struggling and shaking around, without towing.
My 1991 4.2 GQ happily tows the fully laden CT at 100 kmh all day without raising a sweat.
It remains to be seen if these new high tech diesels will regularly get 5-600 000 km like the old big sixes often get.
Barnesy
AnswerID:
279915
Reply By: Member - DOZER- Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 12:39
Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 12:39
To quote an old cow cokies words...."oh, a turbo....50% more power, 100% more problems...
Current climate, the 3 litre nissan is a steer clear, 4.2 is ok but oil louses up quick being indirect injection and power is down to the direct injection 3 litre and toyota.
The 4.2 factory turbo toyota motor should live 3/4 of a million kms without problems if serviced to the book (pump and injecters every 150k kms)...when towing the main thing to look for is high torque across the range, the 3 litre grapg looks like mount Kosiosko, the 4.2 looks like Ayers
rock profile...so out of those two, the 4.2 is the best tower with more torque available across its rev range.
Mitsubishi has always been the dark horse, with really strong diesels, the DID is a great motor, pumps dont like being ran out of fuel, a few have ceased to operate after this occuring the first time :( The rest of the drive line is what i think would let you down if towing alot.
Andrew
AnswerID:
279917
Reply By: Stephen M (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 14:47
Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 14:47
Thanks all seems the general consensus is the bigger motors, except the mitsi. We were just looking up the specs on a few of the above mentioned vehicles. Yes alot of the smaller ones eg D4D toyota, navara, and just looked up the specs on the mitsi and they all have impressive power figures but as mentioned above I suppose you would really need to dyno all of them to see when the power/torque comes on and drops off and at what revs although going by some of the websites we have been looking at the diesel definately in the majority of cases have better torque then petrol motors.. Thanks all appreciated looks like he owes me a carton althou Im quit sure he will be here to help me drink it while we continue our debate LOL. Regards Steve M
AnswerID:
279928
Follow Up By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 23:05
Saturday, Jan 05, 2008 at 23:05
Hmm, I'm currently having the same argument with myself regarding the best engine for longevity, as I have had enough of the 2.8 patrol.......got me a bit nostalgic when you mentioned the 265 hemi above.......slot one of them in the gu????
Parents had a 265 hemi in a val waggon as a family car when I was 15 or so, never got it on the highway but made the old mans xb ford with the 250 feel like a 4 cyl in the padock
Had a look at the chrysler site earlier, the 300c
sedan (which I think looks great, others differ)....6.2 hemi, 340kw from memory....broom broom, I want one!
For
mine, I think I will stick to a nissan, about a 2003 4.2 if I can find the right 1
Cheers ANdrew
FollowupID:
544206
Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Jan 07, 2008 at 12:55
Monday, Jan 07, 2008 at 12:55
When is an engine worn out?? Used to be when you lost compression past the rings, or lost oil pressure etc
These days, theres a heap more expensive repairs to contend with. So when your 3litre Nissan TD spits its turbo, or your 3litre Prado cracks its cylinder head, or your injector pump doesn't like aussie fuel, or some sensor gives you grief, then you're up for a hell of a lot of $$$ - maybe as much as it used to cost for a new motor anyway.
My point is that I couldn't care less whether the rings/bearings will go 600,000k - its all the other repairs and reliability along the way that matter to me. My preference is for the 4.2l 6cylinder diesels because both the Toyota and Nissans have a long history of trouble free motoring.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Stephen M (NSW) - Monday, Jan 07, 2008 at 22:31
Monday, Jan 07, 2008 at 22:31
Hi Phil hows it all going. Yes agree with the ongoing running costs of the high tech motors. Mate had to replace his diesel pump on his 03 Hilux t/d 3 and 1/2 grand later due to bleep ty fuel. I have heard this lately about the prado heads, common problem ?? on that I presume your talking the earlier diesel not the D4D. Regards Steve M
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 08, 2008 at 19:07
Tuesday, Jan 08, 2008 at 19:07
Gday Stephen,
Re the Prado Heads, I've had 2 friends in
Adelaide have cracked cylinder heads on australian delivered 1KZ-TE motors - I don't think its a common problem - just the luck of the draw. And you've probably heard of other instances from the Prado groups.
D4D hasn't been around long enough in Australia yet.
But cylinder head problems seem almost unheard of on the 6-cylinder cast iron heads.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Off-track - Tuesday, Jan 08, 2008 at 00:22
Tuesday, Jan 08, 2008 at 00:22
Which would you rather - the same work being done by 4 pistons or spread over 6? Equates to same overall stresses being placed over fewer pistons and rods etc. Therefor more physical stress and more heat generation to produce the same effort.
AnswerID:
280409