Silicon: Is "Inert" the same as "Neutral"
Submitted: Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 10:22
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Member - Roachie (SA)
G'day all,
I'm in the process of converting my Lightforce XGTs to HID format, following 18 pages of instructions I got off the internet (
well sort-of off the internet).
The method requires the original Lightforce globe holder (an aluminium casting) to be modified so as to be able to accept a H3 size HID unit which needs to be held in position with an Inert grade of silicon compound. It needs to be inert so that it will not stuff up the internal reflector's coating etc.
I have here at
home already, a large tube of silicon compound that claims to be "neutral"....do those in the know believe this will do the trick, or do I get along to the hardware
shop and pore over all the brands until I find one that has the word "inert" in it's description. I spose I could just email the bloke I got the instructions from and see what actual brand he recommends; but that'd be way
too easy......
Cheers
Roachie
PS: The HID kit I'm using is 55watt 6000K (should be waayyyy better than the "proper" Lightforce HIDs which are only 35watt!!!)
Reply By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 10:38
Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 10:38
Netural and inert are the same thing, netural has a ph level meaning it is nor alkaline or acidic.
A material that may react with a alkaline may not react with a acid and vise versa.
I think alot of poeple use terms that the think are right and may mean the same but in a differant context.
Inert means will not react or change structure.
Netural means the same but is used more to describe silicon sealant types
Have a look at Stikaflex....much better then silicon and lasts longer.
Silicon is used by
home handymen or tradies who don't know better or are trying to save money.
Stikaflex is a polyurathane and is used by people who know what they are doing and wants something that will work for years and do the jod right.
Oh and welcome to the full HID club....what ones did you get?
Regards Richard
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Louie the fly - Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 11:00
Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 11:00
Sikaflex is good gear. Just dont get it on you because it sticks like you know what to a blanket. This might be suitable
Site Link
I think Crash Supplies sell their stuff.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 12:27
Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 12:38
Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 12:38
Silicone rubber is recommended because it will not break down when heated to hundreds of degrees near the bulb.
I doubt that Polyurethane will cope.
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 12:50
Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 12:50
Mike,
I thought that HID globs didn't produce heat.
Wayne
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 13:30
Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 13:30
Quote: "I thought that HID globs didn't produce heat."
Wayne, that was my belief too..........
well at least nowhere near the sort of heat that halogen globes produce. This is one of the main reasons for going HID in the standard headlights....I wanted more light but was worried that the 130/90 type halogens would have melted (or at least discoloured) the reflectors of the standard Nissan headlights. The HIDs I have in there are MUCH better than standard and seem to be having no effect whatsoever on the reflectors.
Roachie
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 14:36
Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 14:36
Have you ever tried holding a 55 watt filament bulb when it's on.
Normal HIDs may only draw 30 watts, but even if they only out half as much, the base will get very hot.
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Follow Up By: Louie the fly - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 18:09
Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 18:09
Roachie, when I asked the rep about inert silicone today he said "never heard of it". Can tell you though that silicone rubber has an general maximum temperature of 130 degrees Celsius although there are some high temp ones available.
Sikaflex 252 is as follows;
Service temperature (continuous) -40°C to +90°C
1 hr 130°C
4 hrs 150°C
The Dow Corning website is a good place to find what you need in silicone products. They have over 1000 grades of the stuff.
Good luck.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:11
Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:11
I regularly touch silicone rubber with the soldering iron at 350 degrees and it has no effect on the silicone - although obviously it won't take this temperature permanently.
Quote from
Silicone Ignition Cables
"The insulating jacket is made entirely of . . . . aerospace grade silicone rubber . . . . has a service heat resistance of 320 degrees C and up to 540 degrees C for short burst 3 minutes"
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Reply By: Member - Bucky (VIC) - Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 10:56
Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 10:56
Wow Roachie !
the big 55 watters, eh !
Thought they are illegal, they are used for rally driving only ,,
See for
miles, and when you dip them, you can't see a thing.
In all honesty,, is there is a cut off point for headlights ?
I often get flashed with my useless Navara headlights, and those wee, wee, little Hella's ,,,
So how much do we really need ?
Cheers Mate
Bucky
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 12:29
Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 12:29
G'day Bucky,
Mate, I already have the HIDs in the headlights, so when I drop back to low beam I can still see really
well.
As for being illegal......
well, I guess I'll just have to add it to the list (the headlights I mentioned above are illegal too, because they don't have washers and aren't self levelling)......
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Follow Up By: Member - Bucky (VIC) - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 04:55
Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 04:55
I suppose you have a point about that ,,
So " where do you want me to park her up officer ", would be words worth practicing, eh Roachie !
I'm not too sure how the coppers take all that in S.A. but they seem to be a lot more stricter in Mexico,,
Then again, I see some of the rigs floating about in Vic and I they cannot be legal. Need about 3 alternators to run all those lights.
never mind
How sad !
So how's the mob ?
We are all fine
Cheers Mate
Bucky
B
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Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 11:15
Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 11:15
Roachie,
A quick way to tell, and I would not normally say this to anyone but I know that you are responsible and will not let things get out of hand, and that is to sniff the silicon.
If it blows your sox's off it would be acidic. That is not the silicon you want.
I was thinking about putting HID globes into the head lights and not worry about the
driving lights.
I have always had
driving lights but have not put them on the Troopie and have not missed the extra lighting over the last 12 months. Good luck with the conversion and only one sniff is required of the silicon.
Wayne
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 12:31
Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 12:31
Thanks Wayne,
neither of the 2 brands I have in the shed at the moment smell as though they'd knock my sox off, so are probably okay.....but I'll wait for Louie the Fly's verdict.....
Roachie
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Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 21:23
Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 21:23
Hi Roachie,
Neutral and inert do have different meanings, with neutral referring to its pH level while inert refers to its reactivity.
You could have a neutral sealant (ph=7) and it still may be reactive. Whereas an inert sealant will not react by definition but it may not necessarily be at a neutral pH.
However, the technical defintions are not always used in the correct context thus you really do have to
check the data sheets and see wha they say regarding its compatability with the material you want to use.
With the housing being aluminium, it will react more with an alkaline substance whereas an acidic substance will not have much of an effect on the aluminium - but acidic vapours may react with other components like the lense coating.
Basically just make sure it is inert!!!
Cheers
Captain
(Chemical Engineer)
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 08:20
Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 08:20
Thanks Captain...... As always, you are a
mine of information and it is much appreciated......
Cheers mate
Roachie
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Reply By: Member - Matt (Perth-WA) - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 13:53
Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 13:53
Roachie...off topic about the silicon but just on HIDs...I see you are doing a spotlight conversion to HIDs so this is only for information and might be relevant due to the reflectors and not a legal issue.
In most developed countries the HID HEADLIGHT conversions are illegal due to the different design required for the correct reflection of the photons in HID compared to QH.
As I said not a legal requirement in your conversion but the relector design from standard HID to your now converted HID should be very different to maximise the benifit of the HIDs in general.
This is why when you see a
young lad in his lowered 'doof-doof' rice burner with his Ebay HID HEADLIGHT conversion...yes the lights are nice and
bright but there is no clear delineation in the light being emmited, the spread if terrible and blinding. The factory diffuser does not suit the HID due to the shape of the 'bulb' and how it reacts with the reflector.
Just saying you may not find the result AS good as a factory HID spottie and that may be the reason.
But all the best and goodluck with it...would love to hear the results and side-by-side
test after completion.
Matt.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 14:34
Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 14:34
A good point - before fixing the bulb in place I would rig it up at night and move the bulb around to find the best exact position for the best beam pattern.
Now that I have HID original lowbeam headlights, I am amazed at the sharpness of the cutoff and how total the cutoff is. In fact on dark roads I consider it dangerous - you simply cannot see anything on the road beyond the to cutoff. Changing to highbeams isn't a great solution, being filament, they are so dim and such a narrow beam !
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 20:27
Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 20:27
G'day Matt and Mike,
The XGT and HID from Lightforce share exactly the same shell/reflector etc. Now, that on it's own is no guarantee that the "globe's" focal point will be correct in this conversion. I am relying on the bloke's R&D (ie: the bloke who sells the 18 pages of colour-photo and extensive description instructions for $10-) findings.
He has done tests with various size "bulbs" (I know, I know...they're not known as either bulbs or globes; but that's the best way for me to describe them). He points out that the H1 globe is too long and while the light emitted is
bright, it is hopeless for the intended purpose. He shows a side-by-side photo of the original halogen globe and the H3 globe and it is easy to see that the centre of the HID globe is in the same "position" (ie: relative to the mounting point) as the filament of the halogen globe.
I will post-up my findings when I get it all sorted out.
Roachie
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Follow Up By: BMKal - Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 02:48
Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 02:48
Just as another example of changing spotlights from QI to HID - I have a set of the original Hella Predators. I also have a set of Hella Rally 4000's, which I have converted to HID using a Chinese import kit. I cannot pick the difference between the two (except of course for the price).
I've got a kit out in the shed to convert the headlights on my Disco to HID - hi and low beam. Bought this mainly because, driving with the HID spots on and then dipping back to lo beam, it's like some mongrel blew the candles out. Land Rover low beam is not too flash, even though I'm already running 100/90 globes in them. Will be interesting to see how the HID kit works in the headlights - I've heard both good & bad reports.
As a
point of interest, the 55W HID globes are illegal for on-road use throughout Australia. But then, how is a copper going to know that they're 55W. If asked, I'd just say that they are 35W sold as legal for road use. He's hardly going to be able to dispute it. The headlight conversion kits that I'm about to install I know are also illegal - but that's something I'm prepared to take a chance on. Of course, I'll adjust the headlights as
well as I can to avoid unnecessary glare to oncoming vehicles - but if the light spread is too bad as some people have told me it may be, then I'll just have to take them out and learn to live with what is currently in there.
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt (Perth-WA) - Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 10:02
Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 10:02
Sounds like you are onto it Roachie...thanks I would be interested in the final result.
BMKal mate totally agree...we all know what is illegal and what the police decide to enforce can be very far between. The conversion HEADLIGHT HID kits are so easy to spot, the light is justa total blinding mess but very
bright!!
I guess if the officer is vigilant then that mess coming towards him at night would be the decider as to pull you over or not. Then again he might be on the way
home at the end of a shift and not interested in getting back to the station late.
I think 4WDers in general are given a fair go...there are not many mods on our vehicles that are technically legal but I think we are usuall given a fair go due to the general nature of the group. I think most people targeted have failed the 'attitude
test' and deserve their treatment.
All I would say is before you do the conversion....think of your fellow drivers and dont contribute to our undeserved negative press by being another 'percieved blinding ignorant 4wdriver' out there.
All the best
Matt.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 10:08
Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 10:08
To avoid attracting attention, make sure you don't wear your baseball cap backwards.
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Reply By: bushy555 - Tuesday, Feb 05, 2008 at 12:49
Tuesday, Feb 05, 2008 at 12:49
Hi All,
Im the bloke that has been buggerising around with LF 240 and XGT's, chucking the HID bulbs in... selling DIY kits etc.
Love mucking around with them.
At the moment on my lounge rom floor I have a Blitz 240 that I have drilled and inserted 5 45w bulbs into place. Havent turned it on yet.
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7582673
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7582671
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7582670
I said silicon, only for the fact that I was trying to get peeps to do the installation as cheaply and as practically as possible. I didnt want people to have to go out and buy extra stuff. If they had it out in the shed, then that was what I was aiming for.
Anyway... regarding temps, a normal standard 130w H3 halogen bulb runs at 590 to 600 degrees at 13.0 volts out in the open. (Digital laser thermometer)
A 45 watt 5000k bulb runs at 125 to 130 degrees.
Got a few vids of 45 and 55w HID's in action on youtube.
This was done last night (4th Feb)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IetVnhKx-Wwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i33f7dkUTAo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33akU_zFo6Q
cheers
dave
Any Questions, please email me:
djmaunder at rockdale.com.au
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 05, 2008 at 13:27
Tuesday, Feb 05, 2008 at 13:27
G'day Dave,
I think you might have voided the warranty on that Blitz ....hahaha
It'll be interesting to see how it works.....you'll need to beef-up the front
suspension to cope with the weight of all those extra ballast packs!!!!! haha
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