Heat Exchangers

Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 at 21:32
ThreadID: 53843 Views:2129 Replies:10 FollowUps:13
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Needing advice on under bonnet heat exchanger and showers. (Getting sick of boiling the water).
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Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 at 21:53

Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 at 21:53
What sort of advice?

If it is brand preference, then I will add a vote for the Glind, mine has been on three trucks now and is still good for the warm shower when needed. Never replaced anything on it in nearly ten years.

Trevor.
AnswerID: 283429

Follow Up By: Member - Derek L (QLD) - Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 at 23:15

Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 at 23:15
Trevor,

Thanks mate for the advice. 1 other thing is what flow rate pump do you reckon. I looked over the internet and many claims to have pretty high flow rates of around 11 l/min gee I would get wet then run out of water. Can ya adjust flow at the rose?

Derek

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FollowupID: 548070

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 at 23:34

Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 at 23:34
Derek,
We use a Helton; it appealed to me because all 4 inlets/outlets can be ordered to be on the same end.

We use an 11 l/m Shurflo pump. The shower rose has a sliding control to allow you to regulate the water flow. However, we tend to leave this on the full-flow position. Even so, the way we (a family of 2 adults and 3 kids) can get away with about 15 litres or less for our showers. The idea we use is to put the plastic bucket in the shower tent with us, wet down, drop the shower head into the bucket, soap up (water continues to circulate in the bucket), then rinse off. Some of the water falls back into the bucket as you shower.

A word of warning!!! The first time I used one of these, I shut the water off at the slide control while I soaped up. When I picked up the rose and recommenced the water flow after a minute or so, the water which had been "caught" in the heat exchanger was about 400 degreesC (well that's what it felt like when I aimed the rose at my sphingkter valve area!!!!!!!) OUCH x 1000000!!!!!!! Ever since then, we don't shut the water flow off!

Cheers

Roachie
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FollowupID: 548077

Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 07:09

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 07:09
Roachie, There is a very simple method to totally avoid the scalding risk, so simple that i am surprised " someone didn't think of it before".
I have a Twine unit on the 80 series and I fitted a bypass valve between the pump output and the heat exchanger that allows the water to either go to the H/E or to the shower head. When we shower I circulate the water in a 20 litre plastic jerry until it is up to required temp then, and this is the trick, change the flow so the water goes to the shower head via a "T" fitting in the return line from the H/E. Then you can only get water at the temperature of the jerry water. You can not get scalded!! Simple really. If you would like a picture of the set up I will put one in my rig pics tonight. The cost of the conversion was less than half a slab. When I explained it to John Twine he wondered why he had not thought of it!!
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FollowupID: 548092

Follow Up By: Moose - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 14:46

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 14:46
G'day Ian
Would be interested in your set-up. That burst of hot water is always a pain (not literally becuase I know when it's due and just aim the water away) but your system sounds great.
Cheers from the Moose
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FollowupID: 548143

Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 20:36

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 20:36
Hi moose,
Lock at my rig pics for the layout of the plumbing. I only just loaded it and them member message me if you need to know anything else.
ALL built in showers will suffer the scalding problem if they have no bypass plumbing.
Good luck
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Follow Up By: Moose - Friday, Jan 25, 2008 at 09:43

Friday, Jan 25, 2008 at 09:43
Thanks Ian
Looks simple enough. Will have to do something about mine now.
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Reply By: madcow - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 07:47

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 07:47
http://www.mcs.net.au/~grungle/shower.html

I use a Twine in mine but they are all good if installed correctly. A happy wife = happy life. Gotta look after the financial manager
AnswerID: 283458

Reply By: Dave from P7OFFROAD Accredited Driver Training - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 08:03

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 08:03
I have a glind ready to go in.

I have installed the FloJet pump (on the cargo barrier) already basicly as a wash down for kids feet and backsides (two 20 litre tanks in the 'dead space' behind the Engel) as we come off the beach. I have my plumbing all sorted for the Heat exchanger, but still haven;t found a satisfactory place to put it.
AnswerID: 283461

Reply By: Russ n Sue - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 08:07

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 08:07
My advice to you re: heat exchangers, is to not park within 200 metres of any other campers who are trying to enjoy a peaceful morning or evening.

From experience, the sound of a clattering diesel engine a few metres from your camp is second only to the sound of a baby crying for annoyance value. Not to mention the fumes.

Buy a couple of those shower bags that you leave out in the sun. You'll make more friends.

Cheers,

Russ.
AnswerID: 283462

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 08:18

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 08:18
We generally camp with people we know (4x4 club); or otherwise we camp alone. If you're smart, you'll invite other campers who are close by, if they would like to make use of your shower whilst you have it set up.....it is standard practice that they should bring their own water. It's a similar argument to the gennie question: if you invite others nearby to make use of the power you are generating, 9 times outa 10 they'll be quite happy to have the gennie going for a couple of hours..... once again, we only run the gennie about every 4th day if camped in one spot (rare for us) and even then it only runs when the normal hum-drum of the camp is there to drown-out the low-level hum of the gennie over behind a tree etc.

We wouldn't dare start the 6.5 Chev up at an ungodly hour in the morning and idle it for 15 minutes to get water temp up; nor would we have late night showers. Our shower time is either after 9am or before dusk.

Cheers

Roachie
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Follow Up By: madcow - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 14:37

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 14:37
agree with the above, we normally fill up a container in the morning and let it warm up and have a shower after a drive in the afternoon.
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FollowupID: 548141

Follow Up By: Member - Coyote (QLD) - Friday, Jan 25, 2008 at 13:26

Friday, Jan 25, 2008 at 13:26
what??? no silencer Roachie??? surely that must be the only accessory you haven't fitted to the Patrol..... there must be something out there that you can fit to keep the noise of that huge donk down?? heheheh
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FollowupID: 548349

Reply By: flappa - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 08:47

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 08:47
I have a McPauls Heat Exchanger (now Piranha) fitted to my Petrol Patrol.

As my Patrol has Climate Control I found getting the correct settings difficult , so I fitted both a Hot and Cold Line through a standard shower mixer.

Its like having a shower at home.

We also use a 100l tub to recycle the water through.

Once piece of advice is to check what pump you are getting.

The Shurflow pump in the Glind shower kit was marine grade , whereas most of the others include RV grade pumps.
AnswerID: 283465

Reply By: Outnabout David (SA) - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 09:33

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 09:33
I think all the brands mentioned are as good as one another afterall the design is not rocket science.

Think about where you may use it the most. By that I men if you have an abundance of water like say in the High Country then get a 14lpm pump because they will draw from several metres below the pump level and over a longer distance.

Think about how many will use it. Remember a 14 lpm pump empties a jerry in 1 1/2mins.

If you have a family I would drop down to a 4lpm pump to conserve water.

I just picked up a second hand heat exchanger for $80 and fitted it up to a 7lpm pump and that is more than enough in my opinion.

The safe way to use these is to allocate ration the water. Ie Decide how much water you want to use and fill a bucket. place suction and shower line in and run engine to heat water. When it reaches the desired temperature then switch off engine and then just run the pump that way you won't burn yourself. If you buy the components separatley then make sure the pump has a pressure cutout switch so that when the shower rose is turn off the pump will also shut down.

Another tip for these units is do not use garden snap on fittings on the suction line as thes will eventually suck air in an the pump will not work. If you must use snap fittings then use air line fittings. I have a normal screw on fitting on my suction jose that way I know I can borrow a hose from anyone or easily buy one. Have snap on air fotting for the shower hose.

Also only use high pressure HOT water hose. There is a lot of heat under the bonnet and through the hose and other hose does'nt cut the mustard imho

AnswerID: 283471

Follow Up By: flappa - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 10:30

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 10:30
I agree about the Fittings.

Most of the fittings on my system are Air Hose fittings , the one exception is to the shower where I use Brass Garden Hose fittings. Far better then plastic variety
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FollowupID: 548123

Reply By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 11:50

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 11:50
I have a twine and have been very happy with it
AnswerID: 283492

Reply By: Middle Jeff - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 14:05

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 14:05
Hi Derek

I think they are all good, just do not get one with a pump. Go to Whitwhorths boat chandlers and buy a real one. It needs to be able to have a head off at least three meters as you never camp at water level and if your pump is at the top of your engine bay that is another meter lost. Also the least joins you have before the pump the better as they hate sucking air, avoid the garden style filter and put a little one way valve in the end of your hose. The pump I have if on full hurts the kids, but my wife loves it as she can put it on full for just a minute to get conditioner out of her hair.

Have fun

Craig
AnswerID: 283506

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 16:07

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 16:07
G'day Craig,

If I understand your response correctly, you're talking about drawing your water directly from a nearby lake, creek, river etc (hence the need for a pump with sufficient head capacity)?

At the risk of sounding like a wowser (or worse), I would just like to stick my 2 cents worth in please...... I would not like to think there is anybody "out there" who is showering in such a way as to be allowing soapy water to get into the natural water ways. I know some of the shower adverts show a cute sheila having a shower (in her bikini and without a tent) right near a waterway of some sort.....I just hope people don't take that literally.

With the greatest of respect to the rights of all other campers, may I respectfully suggest that you should be obtaining your water from the lake, creek, river etc in a bucket and taking it away from close proximity of that water source, so as not to pollute the source. Hope this makes sense without offending anybody.

Roachie
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FollowupID: 548159

Follow Up By: flappa - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 16:47

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 16:47
and with due respect Roachie , no where is it shown they are using soapy water.

I agree that you should not shower close to a water source , but , a picture only tells you so much.
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FollowupID: 548167

Follow Up By: Middle Jeff - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 21:07

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 21:07
Hi Roachie

I agree with you, that is why I have 25mts of hose so I can be well away from the river.

Have fun

Craig
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FollowupID: 548225

Reply By: Moose - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 14:42

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 14:42
G'day Derek
The Glind is excellent, as no doubt is the Twine and others. As far as pump size goes, save yourself a few $s and go for a smaller one if available (Glind offer such an option as far as I'm aware). We bought the larger one (sounded like a good idea at the time) but have never drawn water other than out of a bucket or drum so the ability to suck up water from a creek/dam is over the top for us. W could have gotten away with the smaller one.
A mate, with the same sized pump, used it once to draw water from a creek and sucked up a heap of sand that was suspended in the water - but not obviously so when one looked at the creek it looked really clear. Result was that he has never done it again.
Cheers from the Moose
AnswerID: 283516

Reply By: Member - Coyote (QLD) - Friday, Jan 25, 2008 at 13:37

Friday, Jan 25, 2008 at 13:37
I run a twine too and love it.. Agree with the policy of happy wife = happy life.
I have a "mixer" head and shower rose at the back as part of my storage system with an on board water tank. My system runs in a manner that the water is drawn out of the tank to the pump, it then branches, one to the cold outlet of the mixer and one to the heat exchanger under the bonnet. I can also switch the 'draw' to come out of a hose, so when there is plenty of water around I drive into the creek, drop the hose into the water and presto.. unlimited water for hot shower.. the temperature is easily adjusted as you are showering by moving the 'mixer' towards hot/cold, just like your kitchen tap at home. Thus increase/decreasing the amount of hot/ cold water and thus avoids the "scalding" issue. SWMBO can shower at the back of the car within 30 seconds of stopping and have water at any temp she wants.. in fact when we make a brew, we start it with hot water out the tap this way and then 'top it off' on the gas stove IF reqired. LOVE it.. best 'accessory we ever put on the Nissan
AnswerID: 283727

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