Bush mechanics.........Brakes and Wheelbearings

Submitted: Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 14:03
ThreadID: 53967 Views:2489 Replies:18 FollowUps:8
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Now that I am mechanic-less (ref post 53896) I thought I had better try some things myself.

Rang me mate John who lives by the river, and he suggested that I remove the brake calipers from their fixed position, tie them securely to somewhere on the front end, manufacture a wood spacer to fit inbetween the brake pads ,making sure it is all thoroughlyt tied and cannot shake loose and go for a drive to see if the hubs were still heating up.

Did just that with tie-wire and plastic cable ties and went for a 20km run, being careful not to touch the brakes and used gears and the handbrake only.

Hubs were cool when I got home. Then I reassembled the lot and went for another 20km run and guess what, Hubs were HOT!

So there you go, it is a crook brake system all along and not the wheelbearings. What a monumental stuff up by the mechanic who does not have an enquiring mind and me for not being smart enough to look for other things. Anyway I got lots and lots of advice from the forum.

Now I have to ascertain just what part of the brake system is playing up since the GQ has new Rotors and new Brake Pads.

Better go have a nap first though and wait for the cool of the late afternoon to come........................................lol



Cheers
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Reply By: Kev & Darkie - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 14:18

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 14:18
Willem,

I am pretty sure that the overheating issue will be fixed by the last thing that you end up replacing/repairing ;))

You gotta love it :))

Cheers Kev
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AnswerID: 284093

Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 14:19

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 14:19
Willem,

you're mate John is very good at isolating the components to get the correct diagnosis.

May I suggest you buy him a beer out of that spare $200.

cheers

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AnswerID: 284094

Reply By: Martyn (WA) - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 14:30

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 14:30
Willem,
Could you put a number on what is perceived as hot, in a degrees C format. If both are the same temp that would indicate something wrong with a system common to both such as bakes, if the temps were different that would indicate something wrong with a bearing it's unlikely that both bearings would go or have a problem at exactly the same time
It's a pity relationships have to finish in the way they do sometimes, like your mechanic and yourself, I'm sure he had the best intentions unless you were concerned he was ripping you off. From what you wrote I seem to understand that you had been going to the same guy for a long time. Have you spoken to him since "the event"?
Keep the shiny side up

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AnswerID: 284096

Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 14:37

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 14:37
Gday Willem,
In true Bush Mechanic style, the process would have started by rolling your car on to the roof so you could see what you were doing.

LOL

Cheers
AnswerID: 284097

Follow Up By: Footloose - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 14:57

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 14:57
Hairy, must be an awful lot of bush mechanics up your way LOL. You forgot the rememdy...set fire to it.
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FollowupID: 548839

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 15:01

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 15:01
HaHaHa!!!!!
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FollowupID: 548841

Reply By: splits - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 14:38

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 14:38
Willem

There are still a few unanswered questions with this one. All hubs get hot but are yours excessive? Were you familiar enough with how they felt before this problem started so as to be sure they are too hot now?

Then there is the problem of the grease turning to oil. As I said before I have fixed many seized calpiers that were overheating the brakes but I can not remember ever seeing grease turn to oil because of brake heat and drip out of the seal. I have definately seen diff oil getting into the swivel hub and dripping out but I can not remember if it is possible for it to work its way into the wheel bearings. I am still inclined to think you are getting oil in there somehow. I would still ring the technical inquiry number for Castrol 1300 557 998 and ask them if it is possible for brakes to generate enough heat to do that to the type of grease you are using.

There is also the problem of the bearings discolouring. They all do that but once again how much is too much? It is a bit hard to tell without seeing them.

Brian
AnswerID: 284098

Reply By: Skinnydog - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 14:53

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 14:53
You disconnected the front callipers and took it for a drive. I'm glad you were careful not to touch the brake pedal.
AnswerID: 284099

Reply By: Footloose - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 15:14

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 15:14
Willem, on several occasions I've been given (and paid for) so called "expert" advice that was very wrong.

One mob even had me convinced that one side of the chassis was shorter than the other! I had to have a smash place do a laser analysis. There was nothing wrong with the chassis at all.

When I had the suspension replaced, my expensive "4wd specialist" told me that there was nothing wrong with it ! Then he had the gall to tell me "now it drives like a completely different vehicle."

My advice is to trust your instincts after considering the forum advice. You are the person who knows the vehicle best.
AnswerID: 284101

Reply By: Member - Uncle (NSW) - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 15:43

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 15:43
Possible cause , the calipers need an overhaul? Sounds like the pistons are not releasing, thus causing the pads to sit there and ride on the rotors.?
AnswerID: 284103

Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 20:27

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 20:27
Thats my experience in old Holdens in the past, sticky pistons!! Michael
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Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 16:26

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 16:26
Willem,

Just thinking out loud and this could be a bit over the place.

Both front brakes are getting hot. That could mean that the hydraulic oil is not returning to the master cylinder and holding the brake pads on.
The oil could be old and retaining water.
There could be air in the lines.
The brake lines could be kinked or partly blocked and not allowing the oil to return.
If the bleed nipple is lose, as if you were going to bleed the system some oil should start to drip out of the nipple with out depressing the brake pedal.
The oil should be the same colour as the new oil that is going into the master cylinder.

Bleeding the brakes would be the first thing that I would do. The "mechanic" might have said that this was done but I would do it again.

In the callipers there are pins/bolts that allow the calliper to move.
Remove the calipers from the vehicle. Vice grips can be used to clamp off the brake line while this taking place. Do one side at a time.
Once the brake pads are removed the piston should be able to be pushed in and out. If this is tight the pins could be rusted, bent or just lacking grease.

Wayne
AnswerID: 284112

Follow Up By: Member - joc45 (WA) - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 18:32

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 18:32
Just for the hell of it, check the free-play between the actuating rod on the pedal and the master cyl piston. If zero, you might have a problem there.
The book specifies pedal travel has to be 1-3mm before actuating the piston.
Gerry
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FollowupID: 548895

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 18:39

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 18:39
Willem,

While you are down there check the return spring on the brake pedal and make sure that the pedal is returning.

With the ignition on check and see if the brake lights are on all the time. This could also indicate if the brake pedal is not returning.

Wayne
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FollowupID: 548897

Follow Up By: G.T. - Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 at 13:50

Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 at 13:50
Willem, don`t clamp your brake hose with a vise grip or similar. You may weaken the hose this way. Regards G.T.
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FollowupID: 549065

Follow Up By: Member - Luke (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 at 21:17

Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 at 21:17
G.T.

Why is it then you can buy brake line clamps??? The hose is only of a rubber type material so I personally don't think it would weaken it as it will spring back to it's normal shape IMO

Cheers Luke
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FollowupID: 549141

Reply By: Louie the fly - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 17:26

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 17:26
Could be the front brake flexible lines too. When they start to break down internally they can cause fluid to flow outward but not back toward master cylinder, almost like a non return valve. Had this happen on a couple of older cars. At least you have now isolated the main cause; brakes not bearings.

Good luck.
AnswerID: 284130

Reply By: 96 GXL 80 series - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 19:14

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 19:14
Willem,
all along since you posted that you had changed Rotors I thought that you would have a problem with the pistons in the callipers.

You will have to pull apart and service the callipers.
For this you will have to get the kit with new "O" rings and piston seals and rubber boots, not forgetting the tool to push the pistons back into the calliper.

Once apart you will need some very fine emery paper to clan any rust or ridges off the sides op the piston and inside the calliper, as this is what will be the cause not letting the piston release it self from the Disc Rotor.

That $200.00 was probably a gift from the mechanic to cover your costs for this.
AnswerID: 284172

Follow Up By: 96 GXL 80 series - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 19:17

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 19:17
Also make sure there is nothing obstructing to guide pins on the callipers.
Make sure they move freely.
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FollowupID: 548910

Reply By: Stoker - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 21:48

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 21:48
Willem
Try testing the brake booster unit. An unit not working properly can give you hard brake pedal and a build up of head pressure in the brake lines. This may in turn operate brakes slightly. Just a thought.
Cheers
Peter
AnswerID: 284220

Reply By: Off-track - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 23:43

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 23:43
Make sure ya check the exhaust brake as well...

...oh bugger, wrong thread...eew..anyway, must away!
AnswerID: 284250

Reply By: Member - 'Lucy' - Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 at 00:26

Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 at 00:26
Evening Old Son.

I have been watching this saga and will now elucidate an experience I had with my 81 Datsun Bluebird that I have since new.

Approx 2-3 three years ago for no obvious reason whatsoever the front hubs ran hot and were giving off loads of that hot brake smell.

One evening it actually became harder to accelerate and there was a minor amount of noise issuing from the front wheels - both very hot.

So! down to the brake specialist I have used for years and he can't find anything at all, and the pads had heaps of 'meat' on them.

Short time later it happens again however this time I can't turn the wheel by hand, if jacked free of the ground.

Ring up the brake dude again - bring it in and I will have a look at it - So I do. Drove it about 16 Kms and arrive with smoke emanating from the front Brake calipers.

I also took along a spare master cylinder I had acquired years before hand for 'just in case'.

It turned out to be the Master Cylinder alright and rather than stuff around trying to find out what exactly was wrong with it I just had him put my new replacement one on.

Never missed a beat since.

In your case if that is the cause, fine, however I would respectfully suggest that you get the caliper pistons serviced as well.



AnswerID: 284257

Reply By: Robnicko - Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 at 08:17

Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 at 08:17
Willem,
The hubs will get hot because the disc is bolted to it and therefore heat from the brake resonates into it. A good (safe) way to check is to drive on a highway for a while and then let the car stop on it's own, try avoiding the brake pedal, get out and feel them. They should be pretty cool. However then drive again, this time use the brakes to slow down and they will be warm/hot. Thats why it very important to use high temp wheel bearing grease.

Rob
AnswerID: 284270

Reply By: Willem - Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 at 08:21

Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 at 08:21
Thanks everyone fro all your advice and suggestions. I supposes the whole brake system could do with an overhaul...after all the old bus has done 355,000.

[ BTW I didn't have an argument with the mechanic, but with his boss, the Workshop Owner and as a result of that I am banned from the premises. I rechecked all my dockets after I had wound up the account and Yes, the Owner had made a mistake. He had written a receipt(via the computer) for 400 when I had given him 200 cash. But seeing as he hasn't come back to apologise he can whistle for it and he can shove his whole business up his.........]

Will let you know the outcome of the repairs in due course.



Cheers
AnswerID: 284272

Reply By: Member No 1- Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 at 09:09

Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 at 09:09
has any one said
"We Told You So!"
:))))
AnswerID: 284278

Reply By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 at 17:27

Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 at 17:27
Mate it certainly seems as though its the brakes, and as such would suggest you order some new caliper kits and master cylinder, either reco or a kit and a pair of hoses from your usual parts outlet and then aproach your old mechanc at his home and see if he is interested in a cash job after hours, locked away in your shed like criminals LOL
If not then there is always the Roach mechanical megastore service facility !!!

Cheers Pesty
AnswerID: 284338

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