Next G - It's all your fault blokes/blokesses

Submitted: Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 00:05
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Reply By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 03:09

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 03:09
ROTLKMAO i have seen first hand telstras attitude towardsd next G handsets that dont function at all there is Noooooooo chance they give 1/2 a stuff (which would be alot more) than a handset (like mine) that barely functions
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Follow Up By: stocky - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 09:33

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 09:33
Funny - replaced mine that wasn't up to scratch no problems

plenty of others around here (who got sold ZTE by a travelling sales van - NOT RUN BY TELSTRA) getting free changeovers as well.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 12:12

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 12:12
Telstra replaced my LG TU550 as well.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 15:06

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 15:06
not in perth you didnt went to 3 telstra shops (not dealers) andnone would have a bar of my missus ZTE that wouldnt charge she had to have a phone for work so had no option but to buy a new phone
NO TELSTRA SHOP WOULD EVEN SEND IT AWAY GIVE A LOAN PHONE (it was on a plan after all) OR DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN SELL ANOTHER PHONE.
Sorry for shouting but i didnt find it funny in the slightest
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Follow Up By: stocky - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 20:44

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 20:44
did you once try politely ringing 125111 and asking to speak to a somone about your problems?

Why would a Telsta shop or dealer give you a free phone? They only basically handle the phones for Telstra - you need to deal with Telstra direct on that sort of thing. The only time you will get help at a dealer is basically on a DOA or ELF (early life failure). And loan phones costs money too - Telstra dont give dealers free phones to pass around - they have to BUY them out of their own pocket if they want to offer that facility.

BTW - T shops are *generally* franchises - so your still not directly dealing with Telstra.

Cant believe they wouldn't send it away - at least they would have given you the address to send it too yourself - and a call to 125111 would have told you the info you needed anyways - woudlnt have even needed to leave home
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Follow Up By: AdlelaideGeorge - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 12:06

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 12:06
You have not accurately set out a consumer's rights under the law. The following is an extract from the ACCC's web site - go there to get the whole story. All consumers have these legal protections when buying as consumers but, as outlined below, there is also concomitant protection for retailers - that term is not defined in terms of the type of ownership structure or whether they are principal owned or franchises - if it retails....it's a retailer! Consequently, there is absolutely no excuse for these outlets not providing the proper remedy required by the TPA. Don't be misled-find out about your rights.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Sellers’ rights against manufacturers

Sellers, manufacturers and importers all have
obligations to consumers.
If there has been a breach of a statutory
condition the seller (usually the retailer)
is responsible for providing the refund.
However, the retailer may have a right to claim
compensation from its supplier.
Although the law is designed mainly to
protect consumers, it also protects retailers
and wholesalers by putting the responsibility
for manufacturing or design faults onto
manufacturers, or onto importers and owners
of brand names who are not the original
manufacturer (s. 74H). If a refund has
been given on goods that have a design or
manufacturing fault (for example, a hammer drill
fails after only one month’s use), the seller can
make a claim against the manufacturer or
importer.
Manufacturers cannot impose misleading
conditions on supply terms, for example,
by attempting to limit warranty claims to the
terms of their own voluntary warranties.
Some manufacturers state, for example,
that retailers must return goods in the original
packaging and cover the cost of freight.
However, such conditions cannot be imposed
if the goods are returned in accordance with a
statutory condition or warranty.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Happy days

George
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Follow Up By: stocky - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 12:09

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 12:09
Fair enough - so kick Telstra AGAIN for not helping THEIR resellers abide by the ACCC's rules
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Follow Up By: stocky - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 12:14

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 12:14
BTW - my previous comment stands - a quick call to 12511 and asking nicely gets you a LONG way :-)

Shops are full of staff who know nothing of the products they sell - and usually the staff turnover is high - the reason MANY people have the wrong phones to start with :-)

Retailers get kicked pillar to post by the customers and get shafted by the suppliers - all under the guise of "protecting the consumer"

ACCC - pffftt - what do they REALLY acheive
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Follow Up By: AdlelaideGeorge - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 14:10

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 14:10
The ACCC is the arm of Government set up to administer/enforce the Trade Practices Act. If you (or any other consumer) doesnt think they have the resources to achieve much, make your representative (i.e. MHR) aware of that - this is one branch of administration that could do with an increase in budget.

Actually if you research the cases run by the ACCC and research the results achieved by there negotiations with businesses I think a fair minded assessment would be that they achieve a helluva lot!

Retailers are only 'kicked' because they don't invest in training either for themselves or their staff on consumers rights under the law that's their to protect us all.

Staff turnover (nor any other business cost or problem for that matter) is not the concern of the consumer either.

Two qoutes may be appropriate:

'He who makes the profit bears the losses'

and:

'Laws can't change the hearts of men, but they can curb the excesses of the heartless'.

Hapy days

George

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Follow Up By: stocky - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 14:38

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 14:38
onya george

business does what it can afford - and when they get screwed from all directions they go bust leaving lots of customers in the lurch

great "consumer protection" that is!
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Follow Up By: stocky - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 14:42

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 14:42
and a GREAT concern to the consumer i would think!
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Follow Up By: AdlelaideGeorge - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 15:14

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 15:14
Ahhhhhh we agree! Yes tighten up the Corporations Act insolvency provisions to stop/make more difficult incompetent directors running companies into the ground and then declaring themselves insolvent! The incompetent cowards way out - I agree entirely. And, it goes without saying, being legally able to start another rip-off/scam again within months!

That would prevent other dopes that have supplied them (other 'business people' that is) from having to prove their debts and await a dividend (if there is are any assets available that the incompetent directors haven't put in their wive's names or spent on golf club memberships or other excesses while the business was sent broke!!).

Most importantly it would save the recipient of any rotten services/products supplied to consumers by the incompetent directors of the business from the trouble of taking action against the manufacturers/importers/wholesalers of the rotten products!!!!!

How about employees super, wages and other entitlements being quarantined in a 'trust' instead of being available for the use of the incompetent/dishonest directors??????

Oh - it's so good when we all agree on such important principles of fairness and equity

Happy days

George
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Follow Up By: stocky - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 15:22

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 15:22
so you beleive in tarring all with the same brush - small business to big corporates?

Seems you thoughts are based towards big(ger) business - what about all the "mum & dad" businesses that get kicked by the kind of regulation you suggest in your response.

Small business is THE biggest employer - but wont be for long as it will simply be made too hard!

Plenty of COMPETANT people go bust for reasons beyond their control - careful with that tar brush!

you crack me up george!

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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Feb 08, 2008 at 17:47

Friday, Feb 08, 2008 at 17:47
stocky you said >>>> Shops are full of staff who know nothing of the products they sell - and usually the staff turnover is high - the reason MANY people have the wrong phones to start with :-)


I agree, but there is absolutely no excuse for it either in big business or small business, but the end responsiblity lies with the employer.
Staff should both be trained & make their own effort to have a clear understanding of the goods that they are selling, BEFORE they are allowed on to the sales floor!
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Follow Up By: stocky - Friday, Feb 08, 2008 at 18:59

Friday, Feb 08, 2008 at 18:59
I guess you realise how hard good staff are to find????
Staff wanting to be be paid more - margins getting squeezed from all sides - somethings gonna give - so training out the window - cross ur fingers and hope for the best!

PFFFTTT! Young people wanting to do ANYTHING extra to further there job nowadays ROFL!!

Mate - they turn up day one and want a phone, car & $100k. Sad reality is they get convinced by the education sector thats what to expect and the get the sh*ts up when asked to sweep the floor.

Sad reality of many phone shops (and other "commodity" products) is the staff treat it as a stepping stone to something else - it pays the bills for a while and the INSTANT something slightly better comes up OUT THE DOOR.

There is no margin in the product, staff are on commissions in many cases so its turnover driven. No profits to pay for loan phones and *customer service* anymore

My solution - NO STAFF! Much simpler & less stressful life :-)

Unfortunately the concept of customer getting *everything* for *nothing* is getting closer to running up its own ar$e - you cant keep making everything cheaper and reducing margins at the counter when all the costs are going up behind the scenes

Sad reality of a consumer driven society :-(

Bring back the corner store where you paid for service & GOT IT!

:-)

have a good weekend!

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Reply By: Kev & Darkie - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 07:46

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 07:46
"Last week, Telstra announced a 1800 customer hotline and the deployment of 50 on-the-road staff into regional and rural Australia."

Do the on-the-road staff come equiped with security and bullet proof vests??

Cheers Kev

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He was presented with a difficult decision: push on into the stretching deserts, or return home to his wife.

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Follow Up By: Steve Ellis - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 08:57

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 08:57
Dont shoot the messenger. They are only bringing the message after all.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 11:57

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 11:57
Yes Kev and NEXT G phones, they'll be part of the ravaging throng before you know it.
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Reply By: MartyB - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 09:32

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 09:32
Hey I have a good idea, all of you who are so quick to bag Telstra and Next G. Go find another Telco, the way you lot carry on there must be plenty of other telcos who will provide you with a better service.

Marty.
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Follow Up By: stocky - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 09:34

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 09:34
ahhh - thats right there isnt one..........
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Follow Up By: Ken - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 10:26

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 10:26
Spot on fellas, strange silence about the other carriers network problems and availability isn't it ?
Like a lot of things CDMA gets better with time ! Specially as its availability dereases.
For all you knockers I suggest you try the opposition and let us all know how you go
Ken
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 11:58

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 11:58
Marty its more about having a good service and then it being replaced by something akin to carp
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Follow Up By: George_M - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 12:07

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 12:07
Hey Bonz - how did this thread morph into one about fishing (lol)?
Come any closer and I'll rip your throat out!

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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 12:13

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 12:13
crap gets bleep 'ed, ooh no it doesn't!
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 09:37

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 09:37
Of course CDMA never dropped out...... did it Ohhh Noooo. some must have short memories


.
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Reply By: philthy49 - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 09:41

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 09:41
I'm no great fan of Telstra, but I wouldn't be in their position for anything. Imagine your in business, and have to provide a national service. You are then told at what price you can wholesale and retail your services by the ACCC. On top of that, you have to service unprofitable rural areas, whilst your competition, that you are prevented from competing with, only skims the cream. The relevant depts for communications should be shot for their handling of comms in this country.
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 09:57

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 09:57
here here, well said philthy.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 10:12

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 10:12
Perhaps they should also have told them how much they should pay their CEO !
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 11:08

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 11:08
Gee, you wouldn't be criticising the same Dept of Communications that -

1. Placed TV stations in the middle of the international FM band because we would never need FM broadcasting in Australia

2. Banned CB radio for our own good

3. Allowed the incredible waste of having two cable-tv cables in one street (in the free-enterprise USA they enable competition by having differnent operators cable different areas - all cables carry all channels)

4. Defined 576line digital as high-definition
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 12:02

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 12:02
Try comms in the US, makes Telstra look like angels
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Reply By: Grouchoff - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 15:45

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 15:45
1.Privatising too early ruined Telstra
2. Bring in big mouthed know alls from O/S who only saw their income + bonuses (and oh what a beauty) and had no idea or concern for the topographics and demographics of OZ
3. Winding back one service before the other was ready was just plain amateur and dumb
4. Some people just want a person to person phone service without the thrills, alas not offered.
5. Trujillo is in the win win pozzie...by neglecting delivery on an agreed service delivery platform...he has failed if not breached his terms.
but if he goes he gets a shedload of cash and WE as a country have to find someone dumb enough to step up. Unlikely.
6. The three amigos have never shown any intention of actually finding out what rural people want/need. We are actually quite prepared to be blackmailed by a monopoly thru lack of choice, but only if the service is there.
7.Sorry but I cannot chuck any sympathy Telstras way because it aint Telstra anymore and hasn't been since you know when. As each forced exposure to the organisation has proved so far to me, they have lost the plot...a nd a great deal of support to boot.
8. The best thing to do is give them as little of your $$$ as you can, and reward their opposition.
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Follow Up By: MartyB - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 17:01

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 17:01
Grouchoff,
Explain one thing for me.
Why in hell would you reward their opposition? this means you would be supporting a company that has no intension of even attempting to supply decent comms to rural Australia. Is this what you want?
Everything you have complained about Telstra could be said of all the other telco's. Why is it that people persist in only bagging one of the many telco's on this country. Why is it you would reward the opposition of the only telco that is prepared to provide rural services?

Marty.
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Follow Up By: Member - Fred G (NSW) - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 17:10

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 17:10
Good onya Marty. Well said mate :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 17:31

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 17:31
"by neglecting delivery on an agreed service delivery platform"

Mr Grouchoff by this comment I believe you are commenting on the "failure" to have Next G up and running by the 28th Jan and be in a position to turn off CDMA???

I guess it really shows how well you don't understand the Next G issue.
Far from failing to have the system completed on time you should realise that they are in the order of 12 to 24 months in advance of the original date specified to close down CDMA and have Next G running.

Old Sol has achieved a monumental roll out and change over across one of the largest mobile phone areas in the world and done so in considerably less time than originally specified.
I think far from being worried about another 3 months delay he is probably thinking if thats all then we are still along way in front.

Some people may just want a person to person phone service without the thrills but many more want a service with all the bells and whistles and are prepared to pay for it, thats why its offered.

If you don't like what they offer then on your bike and get down to the local Optus (Singtel) shop and do the switch.
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Follow Up By: Grouchoff - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 18:58

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 18:58
Again I apologise for not supporting a monopoly which promised a lot and delivered little in the way of a comprehensive service I can use reliably in my work travelling long isolated country miles. Places where we could predictably pull over to make calls via CDMA are now devoid of all signal, as Telstra winds down the old before fully ramping up Next G. As for wanting bells and whistles yep that's great, but do any Next G handsets or plans give users the basic service an option ? Who else can offer prepaid Next G. After all Telstra CDMA stitched that one up, did they not. The choice is simply bells and whistles,like it or lump it. Reward the opposition is my way of saying if you don't deliver I can go elsewhere to someone whose customer service is superior. If it were as simple as choosing any provider in rural ares (equal access to the infrastructure to all Telcos ha friggin' ha. ), then I feel this thread wouldn't exist. Telstra would be long gone.The proof of rewarding good service can be seen by the accolades Westnet gets.I think this is all a bit Telecommunications Forum in content but I guess as we are all subject to isolation and the risks assosciated, it is relevant here.I am sure we could spend all our lives on this topic and the pro's and con's of Telstra and their services etc. As for Ol Sols roll out and being ahead of time try reading what the Kondinin groups "Farming Ahead" Articles on Next G had to say and then what the courts had to say about Telstras legal challenge to their findings.Telstra like their supporters(the most vocal are often shareholders ) accept no criticism. The courts threw out Telstras appeal. Thankfully the minister at least activated the wait a while clause.When Telstra shares go down in value our house celebrates.If that offends , many apologies, but when I get back from Optus on my new bike you can borrow it to head to the nearest watering hole and dream of all those offshore call centre operators Telstra makes rich. I declare I have no connection or financial interest or any family or friends in the Telecommunications industry. Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 18:07

Sunday, Feb 03, 2008 at 18:07
Never been a great fan of telstra, but living in the country all my life means that you are stuck with them, as there is no competition, so we dont get the choices that cities do.
Now the compaint i have with all this is that they implemented Next G too fast, why didnt them stop CDMA handset sales, and switch to next G and just let natural attrition take place, say 2 more years.
They would then have had a better chance to supply better phones, and we wouldnt have had to throw away perfectly good working phones
As for the whingers who say we are being unfair to telstra, Im not expecting too much, but I do expect to get what i pay for, so if they advertise services and I pay for them, then I expect them to deliver, just like my customers expect to get when they pay me to do a job for them.
Its business I know, but there is plenty of evidence to show they dont give a bleep e, cos they know they have us by the short and curlies.

Cheers Pesty
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