Diesel and ignition

Submitted: Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 10:05
ThreadID: 54216 Views:4541 Replies:7 FollowUps:9
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Hi all
A safety question from a wet S E Qld
I am now the proud owner of a 2003 3.0 L Diesel Twin cab style side Hilux, this makes me a very happy boy. Making the decision to upgrade and to what vehicle caused more anguish than childbirth, t hats just like shelling peas, compared to buying a 4WD that will suit your needs.

I intend to have fitted a ventilated canopy and install my second battery, Waco fridge (FF30) and 3 x 20 litre jerry cans (of diesel)in the back tub.
My question is, will this cause a dangerous situation re: a source of ignition and fuel enclosed in such a small area.
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 11:01

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 11:01
You can throw a lighted match on diesel and the match will extinguish.


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Follow Up By: Pete and Lez - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 19:41

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 19:41
Doug, you can also dunk a lit match into a FULL can of petrol and it will also extinguish, But I wouldn't say petrol was particularly safe.
Cheers Peter
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 19:53

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 19:53
Peter
Like to see you try, a cigarette with only a smouldering tip yes but a naked flame , don't be silly .

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Reply By: DIO - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 11:01

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 11:01
Diesel being a fuel can be dangerous particularly when pressure and temperature of the product increase. (That's how you get ignition in a diesel engine) The 'flash point' of diesel is higher than petrol i.e. the temperature at which it will ignite. If the jerry cans are of good quality, absolutely no leaks and the fridge is also electrically sound (I guess that means no shorts or sparks flying everywhere) then it SHOULD be safe(r). However as an added precaution why not place each jerrycan into a suitable sized garbage bag, expell as much air as you can from each bag, tie off the top to seal it and you have minimized the possibility of any fumes being circulated throughout the confined area. The other thing that is worth remembering is to have good ventilation in the storage area, that way if there are any fumes in the air they should dissipate fairly quickly. I would also ensure that there is as much distance possible between fridge and cans (jerry that is). I'd keep the beer (cans) inside the fridge! Have a look at this Link it might offer some additional help to you in deciding what to do.
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Follow Up By: glids - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 11:23

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 11:23
I wouldn't rely on the garbage bag holding in any diesel. The bags will rub through very quickly, providing only a sense of protection - worse than not having the bags.

Better to ensure the jerry can seals are in good condition and check for leaks regularly. New seals can be bought to suit jerry cans.

Keep your fuel as far away from any source of electricity or ignition. As others have said, diesel is far safer than petrol in this respect.
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 14:11

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 14:11
Garbage bags are not fuel containers, they are garbage containers.

Steel Jerry cans for diesel, I reckon. If the rubber seal on the lid lets diesel leak, get a new seal, but forget the garbage bag.

Why not get a sub-tank instead. Much safer and more room in the back, and food has no risk of diesel contamination.
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Follow Up By: DIO - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 16:54

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 16:54
PLACE JERRY CAN INTO A GARBAGE BAG AS AN ADDED PRECAUTION TO PREVENT ANY (any) FUMES FROM ESCAPING - IF THAT WERE TO BE THE CASE.
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 17:49

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 17:49
Shouting won't make a garbage bag any more use.

They aren't fuel vapour tight. They barely hold the garbage in.

The jerry can is vapour tight. How can vapour escape from a jerry can? if the seal is bad, so then you replace the seal.

Wrapping it in a plastic garbage bag is a rubbish idea.
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Follow Up By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 21:35

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 21:35
Hi DIO,
The flash point is the temperature at which fuel gives off flamable vapours.
The flash point of petrol is something like minus 15 celcius, deisel should be 30- 35 celcius ,IF it hasn't been tampered with whatever stuff they can find.

Shane
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Reply By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 11:21

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 11:21
Do you regularly carry the deisel or just on the odd occasion? If it's a regular thing you'd be best of investing in long range tank.
AnswerID: 285499

Reply By: Member - Crazy Dog (QLD) - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 12:34

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 12:34
Yo Terry,

You yourself said a ventilated canopy so there should be no probs. The fuel is an ok thing but the hydrogen gas (explosive if an ignition source is around - eg static from plastics rubbing together) off the charging battery could be a prob if they are NOT AGM or sealed LA types.

Grrr!!!
AnswerID: 285514

Reply By: Member - Terry F (QLD) - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 14:59

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 14:59
Thanks Gents

Yes I stuck my gas lighter into a tea spoon of diesel and the fumes did not ignite and my battery is a sealed Exrider XV27 MF sealed type.
I felt confident with my plan, but had not thought of the gas from the battery, but I am ok.

Cheers and thanks for the feed back
AnswerID: 285535

Follow Up By: ferris - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 16:24

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 16:24
Your biggest risk is spilling or leaking diesel into the back and creating a stinking mess. Don't worry about the flame aspect, i've seen diesel tanks welded, with fuel still in them and not a problem.
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FollowupID: 550520

Reply By: Stephen M (NSW) - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 17:32

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 17:32
Can I suggest that when you purchase a canopy for your new toy that you have a look at one with side lift up windows either side. I had hilux with canopy but only had opening rear lift up door on struts. After having that if I was to buy another hilux and canopy I would definately go with the two side opening lift up not the sliding type. Every time we went away by the end of the day I always ended up with sore knees due to jumping up and down and continuosly moving things around to get what I needed. Even when I use to pack it prior to leaving home and would try and put things in order of use I still ended up needing something that was right up front. As far as diesel goes I use to on regular occasions take 3 x 20L plastic containers and never had them leak. Last trip in the hilux was the high country and my duel batt sh it itself so I just grabbed the second battery charged it fully and threw it in the back of tray incase I needed to use it to jump the hilux as I was running the waeco as a freezer at -14 off the main start battery and wasnt sure if it would send it flat but it didnt. If going to keep the beast for a while I would fit a long range tank as the standard hilux tank are quit small 73L for memory you can up that to about 140L. Lone ranger tanks. Sorry for the long post but give you some thing to think about. Regards Steve M
AnswerID: 285572

Follow Up By: Stephen M (NSW) - Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 17:39

Monday, Feb 04, 2008 at 17:39
Probably should have mentioned it was a sealed battery and the reason I put it in the back instead of back in battery tray in engine bay I noticed a big crack around the bolt of second battery tray and was running downwards towards inner guard apparantly a common prob on that model hilux (LN106 2.8D)when heaps of flexing when 4wdriving and rutted roads. Regards Steve M
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FollowupID: 550548

Reply By: Member - Dick (Int) - Tuesday, Feb 05, 2008 at 00:44

Tuesday, Feb 05, 2008 at 00:44
Hi Terry

I have a 79 Series trayback with a Canvas Canopy on the back and air vents in the front to keep it pressurised. I have dual batteries on the tray and also a fridge and I carry two diesel tanks in there for extra range on very remote trips. I have a vent on the diesel tanks that goes to the outside.

Have a Troopy and also carry the extra tanks in it and have never had any problems. Another EO member, Doug T has a big tank in his Troopy with no problems.

Dick
Cheers
Dick







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