Apology - Stolen Generations

Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 13:29
ThreadID: 54539 Views:4339 Replies:32 FollowUps:119
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Well, it's been said! Sorry.

I know it's a hot topic for many here and there have been some fine discussions, lately.

I watched the whole event on TV and found it a very emotional experience to be a part of this necessary occurrence.

Of course, some will dissent. Well stiff bickies! It's been done.

The Prime Minister wasn't all that far from cracking up and the Leader of the Opposition was on the verge for half of his speech. I think that half hour in parliament was the most powerful thing that has happened in Australia in many a year.

For those who'd like to read the apology, and the speeches of Kevin Rudd and Brendan Nelson, they can be found on my Sapphire Coast News website, published in full.

Apology and speech - Kevin Rudd

Speech - Brendan Nelson

I guess that Aboriginal issues are of greater concern to ExplorOz people because traveling the outback takes us closer to the people concerned and we feel a connection with the country remaining in their hands, remaining close to them.

Regards,
Laurie.
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Reply By: Shaker - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 13:48

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 13:48
The thing I noticed about the speech, was Kevin Rudd's inability to put 3 words together, without reading!
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Follow Up By: obee - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:52

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:52
well he has to translate from the chinese you know!

kidding of course
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 13:50

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 13:50
I think this should be locked/deleted early.. it will turn into a chitfight.
Anyway, How can I be sorry for something i didnt do??


Bring on the lawyers now. The billions of $$ await you.
AnswerID: 287254

Follow Up By: mfewster - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 14:52

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 14:52
I assume Truckster you are a citizen of this country? What was done was therefore done in your name, whether you agreed or didn't agree with the actions. Just as many Australians believe the Japanese should apologize for some of the 1940's unpleasantness. Whether or not individual Japanese alive today were personally responsible is not the issue. But it sure helps the people who were on the receiving end to feel better and for both sides to establish some good faith in the rebuilding that needs to be done for the future. We don't need to feel guilt for the past, but we do need to accept responsibility for the future
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 16:50

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 16:50
Okay.....so the apogies are flowing..... what about the powers that be try apologising to all the white girls who, being out of wedlock and coming from middle class families, found themselves in a far-off convent with a bun in the oven. The were kept there without recourse for the term of their pregnancy, and when their little bundle was born it was whicked away without the young mum ever having had the chance to even hold it.

Who is gunna apologise for THAT gross injustice that occured countless hundreds of times for decades????
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Follow Up By: Mainey (wa) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:08

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:08
mfewster, you say-> ""What was done was therefore done in your name, whether you agreed or didn't agree with the actions""

Some of us were NOT EVEN BORN at the time, so in my defence, I will not say 'anything at all' to or for the actions of people who probably believed they were doing the right thing at the time?

Did this 'event' of taking children both black and white from their parents enable ANY of those children to live a fuller and better life than they could have expected if left where they were, I would think the chance is that some would have gone on to live longer, with some money still in their pockets and with-out an alcohol addiction.

As I say, I don't know, I was NOT there and had no input or vote on the subject, and don't wish to be held responsible for the actions taken by other people, many years ago, before I was born and with-out my consent.

Yes, I'm sorry it has upset some people, but I don't believe it's my place to say I'm sorry for an event I had no control over.

Mainey . . .
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Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:09

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:09
Agree Roachie!

SYMBO, just made that statement ten minutes ago!.

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:10

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:10
Well said Mainey.
But no doubt you will be declared racist.. its easier. :(
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:26

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:26
Roachie,
I actually wrote a reply along those lines this morning when i found after I hit the submit button my thread was deleted!

And all you other guys.....are treading a fine line :-0

Leroy
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Follow Up By: Member - Vince B (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:30

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:30
Hi Roachie.
I totally agree with your comments.
Vince
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Follow Up By: Member - barry F (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:56

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:56
I agree with Roachie & Mainey. It's a sham & now watch our tax dollars head off in the wrong direction.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:16

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:16
You can't have it both ways people: mfewster made an excellent point a couple of days ago when he asked if you were prepared to associate with the positives of the ANZACs or the early explorers of this land etc etc etc - you can't pick and choose OUR history.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:44

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:44
... but Mike, are we allowed to have history??
They want to rename Captain Cook Landing Place park at Kurnell in bleep ney to some abo name. There was talk at same time (could ahve been band wagon jumping) to change Prince Charles Parade to something indodgeynuss too.... There were other things in the Sutho Shire they wnted to do this sorta bleep to as well.

We will see now that they have said "bring your lawyers on for the money grab" ... err I mean sorry.
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Follow Up By: mfewster - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:45

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:45
Mainey, I'm not sure how old you are, but this was still happening in the 60's, so it isn't all ancient history.
It is true that many individual children gained education etc. But the social cost was immense Families and communities were destroyed. You can't just take actions which pull a culture apart like that. We need policies that will build indigenous communities where self respect and community pride are possible, not actions that try to pull people and their communities and cultures apart. The hopelessness, drunken ness etc that are the norm in far too many aboriginal communities are the outcomes of their alienation and marginalization.
Even if you still feel that you can wash your hands of responsibility for what happened then, do you also feel that you have no responsibility for what is going to happen now?
I agree that a similar mindset also controlled polices for unwed mothers, orphan children etc. These things were also wrong, but, the big difference is that what was happening to the aboriginal families was part of a policy that was destroying a whole culture. Try imagining yourself in the following situation. Australia loses WW3. The victorious country decides the only hope for the place is to get rid of all remnants of footy, pubs, walzing in the bush etc and instill a new hardworking culture in which learning and only speaking the language of the new master race will be essential to overcoming old bad habits. Roachie and mfewster and Truckster and Leroy refuse to cooperate are beyond saving and have moved out away from their old pubs and now sit round campfires in the bush telling tall stories of the old days. So the master race forcibly removes the children and brings them up in the new culture. Now why aren't we just delighted and thankful for the well meaning actions of our new master race?
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Follow Up By: Mainey (wa) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 21:39

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 21:39
mfewster:-> ""Even if you still feel that you can wash your hands of responsibility for what happened then, do you also feel that you have no responsibility for what is going to happen now........The hopelessness, drunkenness etc that are the norm in far too many aboriginal communities are the outcomes of their alienation and marginalization""
I know, you know this because your a Psychologist lol ?

I don't know what's going to happen now (for sure) but what I'm sure of is it's NOT my fault, I took no children or asked for them to be taken either.

I believe the government will have to spend millions $ to pacify those that make the claim that they were 'stolen' that's an idea, where did Michael Jackson leave his original coloured stuff lol

I have some aboriginal friends, they live in homes just like you an (now) me lol, but they may have been 'stolen' and maybe not, I don't know as they have never mentioned it and have no resentment to white fellas either.

Then on the other hand I have seen the new 'suburbs' set up by some agency for the local Aboriginal people in Alice Springs, they are a total mess, homes without floor boards and windows, they pull the home apart and live under the tin from the roof in the back yard, they refuse to live in the homes.

Mainey . . .
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Follow Up By: mfewster - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 22:12

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 22:12
Nope, I'm not a psychologist, although I have a few units of it tucked away in my qualifications. Yes, until recently I lived in Alice and have no illusions about what life is like in the camps. Yes I have aboriginal friends who live in houses "just like me." So why can't they (I hate that "they" word) all do it? Can I recommend a book to you. The Fatal Impact" by Alan Moorehead. Not about Australian aboriginals as such. He is writing about the South Pacific islands and shows how incredibly small points of contact between European and traditional societies have totally destructive outcomes for indigenous communities.
One aboriginal tribal man I taught to read said, " Now what do I do? I can't leave my family or my land. Those things give my life meaning. When I go to a city I'm not welcome. If I go back to my land there is nothing to do except get drunk. I don't want to get drunk and into trouble again."
For sure, it is going to cost a lot of $. It always has, but it would be nice if it was done a bit more thoughtfully than generally was the case in the past. It might also be a lot cheaper in the long run. Noel Pearson has had some good stuff to say on this.
I'm interested that no one has had a go at answering the last part of post 552542
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 22:33

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 22:33
The apologies were made for the government and what they did and allowed to happen not for what Truckster and I didnt do.
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Follow Up By: mfewster - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 16:52

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 16:52
Bonz, you don't seem to grasp the nature of the system of government we have in this fair country. The lower house of Parliament isn't called The House of Representatives for nothing.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 17:47

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 17:47
Nah mfew I probably don't and maybe its better that way, their behavior certainly doesn't represent me nor many of their decisions
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Reply By: Member -Signman - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 13:52

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 13:52
54533 didn't last long..
Should this post last any longer ???
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 13:53

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 13:53
LMAO, wondered why there was not much said on it.. I missed it.. :(
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Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:13

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:13
Leroy.

It seems like you are posting here to incite hate and anger, your post has already been deleted today once and I call for it to be deleted again, It is insulting and degrading to me and members of my adopted family, you should be ashamed of your self, as this is down right un Australian.

Steve or as my other family call me Balang
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Follow Up By: Member -Signman - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:17

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:17
Hey Balang
There was nothing in that memorandum to incite hate & anger.
It was reality...

Fred or as my other family call me Fred
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:18

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:18
God,
What a pack of sooks!
Moderator. MUMMY!!!! MUMMY!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:29

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:29
I wasn't inciting hate or anger. But to a fair degree believe it's reality. I certianly don't think that posts on the topic should be deleted and especially since it was apparently based on fact.

Leroy
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Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:31

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:31
So I post on here that I felt that link was offensive to me and I cop a school boy reply.

That link has been deleted 5 times in the last week, To a smart person it would seem that others find it offensive as well, so to post it again after you have already had it deleted would indicate that you are either really stupid or trying to incite further offence, this is my observation.

Signman.

You have posted on this thread 3 times without making a sensible or intelligent response, then you see it funny to make fun of my skin name, well if that makes you feel good, then good on ya.

Truckster

I met Bonz last year and he spoke highly of you, he certainly made you sound better than your comment.

UNESCO have Australia rated as the second most racist nation in the world, second to South Africa.

Is this something Australians should be proud of ??

Balang.

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Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:40

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:40
Steve/Balang,

That link you refer to was only posted the once today so I don't know where you get 5 times. Unfortunately for you there are others that don't disagree with the information that what was in the link.

It also appears you use your traditional name when it suits you to make a point. It's like you have some sort of identity crisis with not knowing what to call yourself. If I was you I'd be proud to be who I am and stick with my real name.

Leroy
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Follow Up By: Nick R (VIC) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:51

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:51
moderators will probably let this one go so those who want to can get it out of their system.......

Steve, truckie is not a bad bloke, bonz was probably right, you know this type of media always fails to convey someones full persona.

For what it's worth, it would be nice to think a day of symbolism could "start" something of righting wrongs but it is all part of a very, very long process. that's not to mention righting the wrongs against many other minorities, no matter the colour......

today's news is next week's fish and chip wrapper. the media will move public attention on to the next issue once sorry doesn't sell so many newspapers

nick
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Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:11

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:11
Leroy

The link you posted was deleted today and it was deleted 2 times the other day on Mike Harding's thread "What sort of sorry are we", and Axel The real one posted it before then and had it deleted.

But to be fair if you didn't know that it had been posted before then I retract my initial response.

I used my skin name today to make the point, that there are others on this site that may take offence.

I don't use my skin name lightly, But today I used it proudly and I know exactly who I am and I am proud of it.

Cheers Steve / Balang.
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Follow Up By: Old Dave - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:17

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:17
Steve

I think a lot of indignous people make this the most racist nation

dave
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:47

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:47
Steve,

Good for you mate.

Leroy
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 22:54

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 22:54
Hey Nick.
Did JR talk to you about the Nintendo?

Bruce/Truckster/Bird/Birdman/biggus.
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Follow Up By: Nick R (VIC) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:34

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:34
he mentioned it, sounds cool, you'll have to show me how it works when next we meet.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 14:27

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 14:27
no probs, basically its an adapter tha plugs in where your games currently go.. then you download games off the web (480ish o far) and save a few bux >:-)
chip, adapter and software is $100 all up.
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Reply By: al - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 13:54

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 13:54
its funny there was a post on here this morning that had comment against saying sorry that seems to be missing but i dont see the same censorship being followed here the opology is also offensive to some but i dont see the same rules apply here !
regards
al
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Reply By: Zapper - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 14:03

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 14:03
There will be one huge corroboree/booze up in Canberra 2 night, hope the local bottle shops stocked up on emu export and Winnie Reds, hope they brought some more police into town too!

By the way I wonder who paid the air fares for all the aboriginals to go to Canberra??
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Follow Up By: pjd - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:25

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:25
tax payers paid for the free flight
& the booze up is just another night
how about the ones the benefited from this
say thankyou
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Reply By: Russ n Sue - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 14:05

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 14:05
OK, the Parliament of Australia, and therefore the non-indigenous people of Australia, have apologised for past wrongs. A magnaminous gesture that was overdue.

Now I would like the operators of the Jardine River Ferry to apologise for the robbery without violence that they have been practicing with their crossing fees!

I promise I won't ask to be compensated.

Cheers,

Russ.
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 14:31

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 14:31
And for the abuse suffered when the operator has had a few and you can't understand him ?
Reduce the fare ? Why ? Everyone knows how rich white guys are.
I once suggested that they put a smiling young lady in a rangers uniform on the ferry, who would welcome people to their traditional lands (while taking the money). This, I suggested, would at least give people a welcoming experience rather than generating much alienation.
I was laughed at.
You need a boiler ticket to drive it, and there aren't too many up there. And any young lady capable of being the "Ranger Stacey" type would have already moved to Brisbane.
I was sorry I ever made the suggestion :))
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Follow Up By: Member -Signman - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 14:37

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 14:37
Hi Jim
In a definate effort to hijack this thread..
What did happen to Ranger Stacey ?? Haven't see her around for a while !!



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Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 14:44

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 14:44
Mate, I'm not sure. Wasn't she kinda replaced by Ranger Paris ? :))))))))
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Follow Up By: Rocky_QLD - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:02

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:02
When will the new free camp site be added to the list, the one outside Parliament House
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:20

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:20
Tightarse !!! If you don't like the crossing fee, find your own way across.

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Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:39

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:39
Al, that has got to be one of the most expensive bits of water in the world ! I didn't mind paying for it, after all they'd dug the other crossing out to make it impossible to get to the Linesmans hut, but I did mind the manner in which I and my passengers were treated. Mind you it only happened once out of 6 trips I guess.
I don't care who runs it or sets the fees, black or white it's still a ripoff. There used to be two ferries btw....I wonder what happened to the opposition....eh ?
And if it hadn't been for the deepening of the holes on the southern side, I'd have been tempted to find my own way across, as so many had done before me.
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:47

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:47
LOL Footy, It's generally those with the most that scream the loudest. Sometimes a little background checking gives you a different perspective :)))

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Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:05

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:05
Al, does the expression involving a church mouse mean anything to you LOL
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:09

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:09
Footy,

Sssshhhhh ..... the game's afoot

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Follow Up By: Waynepd (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 09:59

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 09:59
Ranger Stacey still turns up on the weather channel or one of the other foxtel channels doing eco reports.....she still looks hot in the uniform too...... (cue skyhooks )
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Reply By: Willem - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:43

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:43
Yep, I listened to both the speeches and I think that our Primne Minister chose the words well and acquiited the speech in a honourable manner.

The Leader of the Opposition did well too but did bring a little political bias into his speech.

Nevertheless, a standing ovation for Kevin Rudd. Maybe this bloke will take Australia a lot further foward than many previous governments espoused to do but never got that far.

The time had come to say SORRY and hopefully we can move forward in reconciliation with the First Inhabitants of this land.


Cheers
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:52

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:52
>Kevin Rudd. Maybe this bloke will take Australia a lot further foward
>than many previous governments espoused to do but never got
>that far.

I'll go with that. As someone who has a deep mistrust and cynicism of politicians I have high hopes for Kevin - he's starting out well.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Cruiserman1961 (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 16:10

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 16:10
Well said Willem, my sentiments exactly. As for Kevin, you are the first politician i have seen who seems to be sincere about his actions.
All the best for you, hope together we can make a difference.
Cheers, Udo
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Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 16:41

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 16:41
Hi All

Its been said, now lets get on with life,it still does not put food on our table or pay our bills, yet we all pay taxes. and we can sleep at
night with a clear conscience.

Cheers
Daza
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Follow Up By: Member - Poppy (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 16:44

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 16:44
Yes Willem, have to agree with your comments, and also I am a bit disappointed with some of the negative comments coming from this forum
Cheers Ray
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Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:02

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:02
Yes Poppy, agree about negative comments

Some who make a real big noise on the Forum and continually make negative comments and snide remarks on just about anything, are in real life quiet as mice and would not say boo to a goose


Cheers
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Follow Up By: al - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:56

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:56
i will take u on in any verble u want any time any where lol
regards
al
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:46

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:46
So this apology is step 1.


Can anyone tell me what step 2 is supposedd to be?
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:25

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:25
>>> Prime Minister chose his words well .......

Are you kidding, they would ahve been written by a team of speech writers & lawyers.
It was obvious his input was minimal, inasmuch as he read every word!
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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 02:00

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 02:00
Hey Shaker

Its a figure of speech...or are you too thick to see that. I have been around long enough to know how the system works. I see you keep on harping about how much pof the speech the Prime Minister read.....I suppose you can do better? Mate, put up or shut up
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Follow Up By: Redback - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 09:25

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 09:25
Hey big fella, well said mate!!!

Bruce step 2 is trying to respect one another and live together for one goal, a better and more tolerent Australia, shouldn't be too hard now should it.

Baz.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 09:46

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 09:46
Willem, firstly quite obviously, I am not your 'Mate'.
Secondly you say to shut up, at least I don't fill this forum with meanless personal drivel & chat!
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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 13:54

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 13:54
Shaker

Thats OK.

>at least I don't fill this forum with meanless personal drivel & chat! <

Well, that means you have nothing worthwhile to contribute. You are what you are.

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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 22:42

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 22:42
Willem, the aborigines are the last inhabitants of this land, and there may've been some before them, who knows. But you are right, I think it was time and that after 11 years of being denied any airspace at last there has been some given. Appropriately.

I do feel for Brendan Nelson, what a gig he had, and how he carried himself is a credit to him. The crowd should be ashamed for their actions I think as it was not dignified at all.
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 00:36

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 00:36
Bonz,,,, aborigines are the last inhabitants of this land... do you really mean this?

Brendan Nelson LOL'''

He has to remember they are not the boss's anymone... :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 01:11

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 01:11
Willem, you speak very well on this issue.
Now, can we talk about global warming? lol
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Follow Up By: Willem - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 07:04

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 07:04
Hahahahahaha....Barnesy.

During the so called hottest month, in the driest state on the driest continent on earth, we have had 20 days straight of temps under 10C in the mornings and under 30C peak during the day. Have been wearing jumpers most days. This phenomenon is supposed to change today.

We here in the Mid-North have not seen a drop of rain since 26 December....but then again we are a Winter Rainfall area


Cheers
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FollowupID: 552826

Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 16:26

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 16:26
Took the day off today and did some much needed work around the house.
Listened to the apology [didnt have a choice really, the media made sure of that] and found it reasonably balanced. Didnt have a problem with it in the end.

What I do have a little problem with is all of the endless analizing going on in the media, their hacks, some weird and wonderful "experts" being trotted out for their opinions etc.

I cant honestly see how today is going to be 'one of the most defining moments in Australian history' as touted by just about every screen jockey seen today.

Its important but not THAT important.

Cheers....Lionel.
AnswerID: 287282

Reply By: Scubaroo - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:26

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:26
To those that are getting hung up over the word "sorry" - you can be sorry for something you're not personally responsible for. It's call empathy.
AnswerID: 287288

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:18

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:18
Well said.
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Reply By: Member - lyndon K (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:28

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:28
A good speech by Kevin Rudd.
As was said in the speech and as we should all do in our daily lives,
treat each other as we wish to be treated it would be a much better place.
Ask the question

" how would you feel"

Now is the only time you own
Decide now what you will,
Place faith not in tomorrow
For the clock may then be still

Member
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AnswerID: 287290

Reply By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:47

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:47
just be prepared to start saving...those tax cuts we were promised will most likely be reclaimed when they figure out this is going to cost us tax payers Billions & Billions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
AnswerID: 287291

Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:03

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:03
A man with 2 x 100 series LC's isn't doing too badly,eh?

You maka da moola, you paya da tax
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:52

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:52
i do i do... honest
but it will hit us all.....
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Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:21

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:21
And that opposed to a government that got us involved in three conflicts of late costing millions every day. Get real Richard
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Follow Up By: blue one - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:32

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:32
Willem

Spot on

LMAO
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 21:37

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 21:37
whats your problem Willem

i am only stating what i beleive will happen...nothing to do with whether or not i agree or disgree with the commonwealth saying "sorry"

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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 02:06

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 02:06
Richard

You remind me of a Mynah Bird. Always hopping aboutat picnic tables crying and whingeing for a piece of bread or cake.

All you do is come on to this forum and make little snide remarks about this or that or some attempt at humour at what others are doing. I still have to see a post of substance from you.

By your account any compensation paid to anybody is going to hurt your bank account because taxes will rise to pay for such debt. How selfish of you.
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:46

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:46
Willem I dont give a rats ...... on what you think about me but, for your info

IMO we deserve what we get for the past errors of our so called Gov'ts actions on this issue....i dont have to like the fact that it will reduce my income in the future

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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:33

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:33
>> whats your problem Willem
Wish I knew too. I think we are no longer worthy..
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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 13:59

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 13:59
Truckster

I have empathy with some

I despise Rednecks

In my own simple way I am challenging your stance.Thats all.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 14:29

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 14:29
So apparently since I disagree with you, Im a redneck am I?
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 17:25

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 17:25
i think Willem has OD'd on his grumpy pills
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Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 01:29

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 01:29
Don't worry about those 2 Willem. Very few intelligent comments come out of their keyboards. They are "a glass is half empty" kind of blokes. Not everyone can understand simple human concepts i suppose.

I know what my choice would be between spending my tax money on an unnessecery war in the middle east or helping out fellow Australians.
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Reply By: Rick (S.A.) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:59

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:59
Laurie,

Thanks for posting those reports - as I was unable to be near a TV or radio when all that was on (but heard some of the radio talk shows immediately afterwards), I'd have missed out. But now you have given me an opportunity.


Cheers

PS publication day is getting closer. Will be posted direct to you in ~ 2 weeks.
AnswerID: 287294

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:27

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:27
Rick, never fear that you missed it mate.....I reckon it's gunna be on every tv news bulletin, replayed over and over for the next several days.....sigh.......
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 14:21

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 14:21
next 7 days you could almost accept, but I bet it will be on those crappy 30second intros they play at the start of every news bulliten for years.
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Reply By: Footloose - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:17

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:17
An emotive day, no matter which side of the fence you're perched.

I offer my congratulations to all involved,



Now to get on with the job.
AnswerID: 287296

Follow Up By: Member - barry F (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:45

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:45
Good onya Footy, but as our next GG & a bloody good one at that, according to the credentials you posted a few days ago, could you please put a bit of dignity to your title?

Like it doesn't sound all that good if you post a comment simply from "footloose". It sort of conjures up a mental image of a man in thongs, It lacks authority, if you get my drift.

If you were to introduce your good self along the lines of, "The GG of Explore OZ, Sir Footloose wishes to now offer expert advise on all matters relating to this particular thread" then I am sure the rest of us would pay greater attention!! LOL

I agree, it is done, some of us differ & that is the great thing about a democracy. Let us move on. Cheers.

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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:57

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:57
"It sort of conjures up a mental image of a man in thongs."

Thats it Barry got it in one, he's a Queenslander they all wear thongs "On their feet" :-)
VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

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FollowupID: 552504

Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:21

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:21
Dignity ? And I thought all you wanted was a casually dressed old tosser who could keep awake at offocial functions. Crikey, ya don't ask for much, do ya ?
The bag of fruit is too small for me these days. It's strictly funeral gear up this way.
A man in thongs conjures up images of Sydney, not Qld !
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:24

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:24
And unlike most in this country, I've never been comfortable wearing those "flip flops" on my feet. Stubbed and bitten toes are what awaits. Not to mention not being able to run away fast enough :))
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Reply By: Axel [ the real one ] - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:13

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:13
YAWN , nothing has changed , nothing will change except that now compensation will be demanded ,, young indigenous girls and boys will still be abused and then removed ,, the big catchcry of " its traditional" to marry off a 12 yr old to the 50 yr old uncle will remain , ,,,,, tell me Im wrong ,, oh yes it will all be nice and rosy now {insert sarcasm} because the white fella said sorry ,,,,,
AnswerID: 287312

Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:27

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:27
I wouldn't think that a dose of cynicism would be particularly helpful at this time ?
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:49

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:49
It's called reality footy!!

Leroy
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:01

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:01
Yes, but does that preclude things ever getting better?
At the moment we have a proposed bipartisan committee with more to come.
We have intervention (rightly or wrongly) in the NT.
We have a proposal to get rid of some of the fiefdoms that currently exist, and for them to justify expenditures of taxpayers dollars.
You can't legislate aboriginals in communities into 21st century Australian citizens.
It may be only a small step, but it can be a step forward; but only if we embrace it.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:40

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:40
is there going to be a bipartisan committee setup for the forgotten minority of married white working mortgate paying tax paying people too?
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:44

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:44
Why, are they the responsibility of the Fed Govt also ?
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:46

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:46
I can see some good coming out of it...
There will be a few late model Toyotas going up for auctions soon that someone might pick up for a good price.
I mean I asume the "stolen generation" Toyotas that have been funded will now be handed back.
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:53

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:53
Thay might be late models...but would you buy one ? I wouldn't LOL
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:58

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:58
Arent the tax payers and everyone the responsibility of the Fed Gov...??

Please tell me no, and I'll stop paying tax.
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 21:06

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 21:06
Truckster, I have some bad news for you....No we're not the responsibility of the Govt. We're our own responsibility.
Once upon a time a portion of the taxes we paid were set aside for funding age retirement...but that was long ago.
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Reply By: Kevndeb - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:47

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:47
There was not only aboriginal children taken, but also white children. My father was one of those children, so was his sister. My father was 8 and his sister was 10. When I got married he wanted to know what happened to his dad, he knew what happened to his mother and stepfather, but knew nothing of his dad.

So started my search to find my dad's father. It may sound easy, but in 1971 the WA child protection people decided that they had run out of room for files, so they started threading and pulping files, hundreds of files. None of which were copied, backed up or microfiched. My dad's family was one of the files that was pulped. He was extremely upset. He knows nothing of his mother, father or their family. Everything was destroyed in 1971. He was fostered at the age of 8 to foster monster ( that is not a typo), who had a business of fostering white kids for play money, the aboriginal kids paid more, so the white kids got treated worst, of a bad lot. He has just two photos of his mum, one when she was little girl, the other with her standing next to my father's step father.


Yesterday I rang my local federal MP office, to ask where my dad's apology was....he said there won't be one.

As you can understand, this whole issue has brought everything back for my dad, the beatings, the abuse, and not even be able to finish school ( his one regret), he had to start work fulltime work at 12, because the welfare people weren't paying enough. Today he was in tears, he is 67 year old, who today cried with the best of them. The only time I have seen this upset was when he found out his life he had been living was lie, his name was wrong and he had 1 half sister and 2 half brother he would never meet, because even though they were in the file ( court records are kept), their names were black out.

Debbie
AnswerID: 287329

Follow Up By: Andrew(WA) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 22:19

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 22:19
A good example of the proof the whole thing is nothing but political mush.

Your story angers me and I'm sorry for your fathers injustice today.

To be in the shoes of the stolen generation would be terrible. To be in your fathers shoes is no different.

To be your father and left out of the whole apology thing today ...dare I say it..makes a little ashamed to be Australian for the 1st time ever.

The whole thing wasn't very well thought through.

How Rudd got into government I'll never know.

I wasn't going to say anything but...bring it on..
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 22:59

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 22:59
I agree with what andrew says, thats fawkt.

And sadly your dad isnt making enough noise - ACA / TODAY TONIGHT??? They would love it...

Your dad and others in his situation arent worth votes, so thats why theres no apology... Bullchit in my eyes.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:17

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:17
Thank you for posting that Debbie.

I feel for your Dad but can offer no positive direction for him. Please tell him there is one bloke in Melbourne who would like to say "Sorry" to him.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Kevndeb - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 08:47

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 08:47
He was not the only 'white kid" fostered by this monster. He still keeps in touch with his " brothers and sisters", who went through the same situation. She was still fostering after my dad left ( one is still a world class speedway driver). She fostered over 150 kids.

When the monster passed, the group of kids, now in there 30s-to 70s got to together, sat around and talk for hours, about what they had been through and where they are now. They were never offered counseling, before, after or during there fostering.

I have sent emails to several news organizations telling them of the " White Stolen Generations", but I guess these stories are not headline grabbing enough....that and it probably a state government issue, not a federal government issue.....there has been quiet a few of the white stolen generations ring talkback, again their stories are shoved into dark hole that is the dump button.

Debbie
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:06

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:06
Debbie,
From another thread on another forum

-----------------
A similar thing happened in my (all-white) family. It was in South Australia; it sounds like it's WA and SA that were the worst. My sister was taken away right after she was born, and my mother was out-and-out lied to about her rights. For example, although she was forced into signing the adoption papers anyway, she wasn't told that there was a legal right to reverse the decision for up to three months.

We tracked that sister down years later and formed a relationship with her, but the damage was done. I know a lot of people think this is all a big wank but for many people being raised by a different family are massive. She was anorexic, and had other mental illness problems. It would not be obvious to most people that her problems were pretty serious, but she died two years ago from the anorexia, barely 40.

This is very painful stuff within my family and I am not going to get into any debates with anyone about it. All I will say is that if you think that the authorities had good intentions or good reasons in all these cases (or even in most of them), then you are very naive and idealistic. They may have had good intentions in a sense, but it was only in the sense that people who bash children think they are doing it for the child's own good. It's also easy to picture really bad families or something having this done to them, but the reality was that at the slightest hint of a chance to take kids away, they would try to - and lie to the mother "for her own good". It was pretty systematic and it was just much worse than you think.

There was a good doco on the white forced adoptions on SBS called "Gone to a Good Home". I think my mum got a copy at the ABC shop. Lots of young mothers coerced into giving up their kids, some of them even literally drugged to give "consent".

Having said all that I think there are reasons for a government apology to the stolen generation that don't apply to these other cases. Firstly it was bad but technically it was illegal, not done with the full and knowing support of the law as the stolen generations stuff was done. So it is not the same kind of case where a govt apology makes sense. You will notice that Rudd referred a lot to "parliaments and governments" in his speech and emphasised the fact that what was done was sanctioned by the law. Rudd said clearly something along the lines that the people who took the aboriginal children away cannot be blamed, because it was parliaments and governments that enacted laws that made them take those children away. In the white cases, as far as I can tell, there was usually at least a failure to inform the mothers in question of what their actual legal rights were. So it's different... still bad though.
-----------------
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:50

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 20:50
didnt take long.. but its not about money, its about MOVING ON.... ROTFLMAO..




Leaders push for 'sorry' compensation

February 13, 2008 - 5:05PM

Aboriginal leader Patrick Dodson has urged the Federal Government to follow today's apology with compensation for the stolen generations.

Mr Dodson, the former chairman of the Council for Aboriginal Reconciliation, said anyone treated badly under the law deserved to pursue recompense.

He said the debate leading up to today's apology to indigenous people had not been edifying.

"There is an exaggerated anxiety that there will be an avalanche of demands for monetary compensation," he said in an address to the National Press Club in Canberra.

"Even if the courts said there was a case for compensation would the scale cripple our economic future?

"Any group of people who have been treated badly under laws made legitimately by the crown deserve to pursue compensation judicially, legally or politically and they deserve our support."

Mr Dodson said the whole issue of making good on the past, including compensation for the stolen generation, wasn't easily pursued.

He said there were many "blemishes" on indigenous Australia but they could be fixed.

"These blemishes, however, are not tattoos or birthmarks. They are removable stains on the fabric of our society and we must begin the task immediately."

He listed a number of areas that needed to be looked at closely including housing needs, appalling health figures and life expectancies, drug dependency and the number of young indigenous men in prison.

West Australian Aboriginal leader Jim Morrison said saying sorry was a good start but the stolen generations need compensation.

The Bringing Them Home committee chairman said for a lot of Aboriginal Australians the Government's apology was just the start of their struggle, he said.

"For the people who heard the apology, and the word "sorry", it's about moving on and healing.

"But it's about moving forward now and educating the wider Australia to what is this all about."

"I think it's everyone's right, I mean if you are compensated for any wrongdoing, it's done in the normal court of law.

"So why shouldn't there be a fund put aside for people who have experienced the trauma and the sexual abuse and the endless trauma that's incurred and whose lives have been on missions and have been part of a displaced people."

Monash University law professor Susan Kneebone, however, said any compensation claims were unlikely to succeed.

Professor Kneebone said people who wished to make a claim had to establish a link between any harm they've suffered and the government policy.

"I'm sure people will be encouraged by the apology to claim compensation,"she said.

"But I don't think that as a matter of law it is going to make it any easier for people to actually establish their claims."

Claims brought in the past have been rarely successful, according to Professor Kneebone.

She said the only successful claims have been when people could specifically establish they had suffered some harm.

Professor Kneebone said a South Australian case, which showed that a man taken away as a child had suffered differently from other family members, was a rare successful claim.

She said Australia's "conservative court system" would also make it "enormously difficult" for claims to succeed.

AAP

AnswerID: 287332

Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 21:20

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 21:20
So pay them some compensation. Its no big deal.

Apart from running no less than 3 tiers of government, the Federal Government wastes inordinate amounts of 'taxpayers' money on a host of things including multiple junkets in all directions

10% GST we pay per litre of fuel now could cover that easily.

Get over it.....

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Follow Up By: mfewster - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 21:22

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 21:22
Truckster, if you have been listening to the interviews today you will have also heard quite a lot of aboriginal people saying compensation shouldn't be in the form of payment to individuals, but in education, health, employment and housing etc. You asked in a previous post, "What is step 2?" That is step 2. How it is to be done, how we negotiate and build it is the tricky part, but at least for the first time in many years we have a window of opportunity in which there is a possibility of real dialogue with goodwill. Like many other contributors to this thread, I've worked with some of the communities and have a pretty good grasp of the difficulties that are going to be involved. There will be mobs of critics just waiting to pounce on every problem, and there will be plenty, with an "I told you so."
Nelson and Rudd both deserve congratulations for trying to make this this bi-partisan. Don't you find it refreshing to have a Parliament where pollies actually work together on a policy rather than the whinging nit picking BS we usually get?
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 22:48

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 22:48
Willem I agree in part with what you say. I dont see how giving them money will fix the past. It cannot..
But the future is a different thing. But they have to want to help themselves. I dont mean hard working ones on stations, in some plcaes, I mean the ones that are permo pist n stoned, love the white fella government handouts once a fortnight, or the (as it was put to me by an aboriginal dude back in the mid 80's in Mt Isa) yellow ones - the non full aboriginal in Redfern. If they dont want to help themselves, $10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,100 wouldnt fix the problem. It would be money wasted - Again. I dont know the full guff on AtSIC, but it was chit canned not long back, I've heard plenty on it in last 12hours, but will read up (or someone here will tell me) why it was binned...
There are no fast easy answers, but just throwing money at it isnt the answer.

And there are WHITE PEOPLE PROBLEMS TO SORT OUT TOO.. Although they constantly seem to be put out to pasture, or "we promise to look into it"...



>>> Don't you find it refreshing to have a Parliament where pollies actually work together on a policy rather than the whinging nit picking BS we usually get?

Actually yes I do, but the other side of me says thats cause neither of them appear confident or appear to have any idea what they are doing.
I've said for more yrs than I can remember, it would be great if both sides got together and fixed the country..

Now Im seeing it, its not what I hoped and Im not so sure it will be a good thing as I had hoped.

Havent heard 1 thing mentioned about Health, education, etc... only thing I heard was about today... very disappointing.
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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 02:21

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 02:21
Truckster

Your lack of knowledge on this matter sticks out like a sore thumb.

As I said to Member No 1, you too basically only come on to this forum to Stir the Pot and to see what sort of reaction you get.
I still have to see a post of any substance from you. Most of what you contribute is Copy and Paste.

And on top of that you make downright redneck remarks about a proud people.

>it would be great if both sides got together and fixed the country< You have the same problem in your life mate. Why don't you fix yours first before picking on others

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Follow Up By: mfewster - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 08:09

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 08:09
Truckster, they certainly did talk about what happened beyond the apology. It was clearly stated several times that the apology wqs symbolic The first issue listed for the new committee to be jointly funded by Rudd and Nelson is housing. I think symbols are important to many people. I think it would be a safe bet that many of the thread contributors who dismiss the apology would be very vocal whenever they think the Australian flag is desecrated.
Anyone remember back in the days when we had large influx of Vietnamese refugees. One of the big points by the anti Asian lot was "Why don't we do more for our own aboriginals instead of spending on Asians?" At the time, I never believed they really meant it.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:29

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:29
Willem.
Didn't I admit in the post above yours I didnt know it all, but then I never pretend to know it all. or did you just selectively read what you wanted? or fawk it, dont read it, just attack?
Did you miss this bit?
"I've heard plenty on it in last 12hours, but will read up (or someone here will tell me) why it was binned..."

I like you stated what I think. Many others out there think differently to me and yourself. I bet you hate that..
Sorry you obviously think that throwing endless money at them will fix it.. I dont without a REAL plan... Not just one to keep the blind followers happy..
You must think there are fast easy answers, I dont same as above.

Gee, I copied and pasted all of that post above yours ROTFLMAO... honest I did, I found it on www.snapoutofit.com.au/apology

What would you like me to write, I and others are obviously not allowed an opinion that differs from yours, so just email me what you would like me to post and I'll do that, just to make you happy, ok?

We all have problems in our lives, mine is pretty bleep in good at moment, why dont you take your own medicine, and worry about yourself instead of my life? Found another mechanic yet?

Then again, I'm sure you know what you can do if you dont like what I wrote.
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 00:48

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 00:48
Bruce Hi

You started off well but in the end started to rave, but then again you are only stating your fillings...
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Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 01:43

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 01:43
There is one Aboriginal couple in NSW trying to get compo from the government through the courts without luck. The government has spent $2 000 000 (that's 2 million) fighting this one case! Where is the sense in that? Give them some money and get on with it. FORKRISTSAKE.
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Follow Up By: mq swb - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 10:25

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 10:25
That's all well and good to say give them some, but just how much do they want and once they get some and it runs out will they want more.

Andrew
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Reply By: zacc - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 22:17

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 22:17
yeh companasation is a sure thing . you have to be nieve if you think its not going to happen.
it is like a bussiness in itself , the lawers will be rubbing there hands together , bleep they problably filed for it the second the first word sorry came out.
AnswerID: 287354

Reply By: Rock Crawler - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 22:57

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 22:57
I hope I don't offend here , it is not my intention. The way I see it , the indigenous people of Australia got there apology today. I don't see how it's changed anything. I really don't understand why it was so important to them to get this apology . Hopefully there is a indigenous person on this site that can explain it to me .
My Back ground is Greek. the Greeks were under Turkish occupation for 400 years , there children were taken , taken and slaughtered . I don't hear my parents asking for a apology. Maby it's because they know the answer , who knows , Just my ten cents worth.
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Follow Up By: Bega Photographer - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:47

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:47
G'day Rock Crawler.

I understand you question to be a genuine question and not intended to cause offense.

I believe the answers to the things you don't understand are in the apology and the speeches by Kevin Rudd and Brendan Nelson, given today in parliament. So I invite you to follow the links at the beginning of this post and read the gut renching story for yourself.

Best wishes,
Laurie.
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Follow Up By: Redback - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 09:42

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 09:42
Maybe they didn't ask for an apoligy because the Greeks did the same thing when they ruled the KNOWN world at the one time!!!

Just a thought.

Baz.
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Follow Up By: Rock Crawler - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:00

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:00
did the same , slaughtered children and the atrocities of the Turks lol . Somene has no idea on history , just a thought
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Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 00:45

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 00:45
Crawler, i don't know much about Greek history, but did the Greeks and Turks actually get along during that 400 years? i suppose if one side is slaughtering children then they didn't.

How many decades was it until they sorted out their differences?

Psychological 'theory' states that it takes groups (countries) of people around 7 generations to fully recover from major traumas such as wars etc. That's around 150 years. I can relate to this as my grandpa still has a grudge towards the Japanese dating back 65 years. He has told me stories and i too am wary of their motives and will be for probably another 40 years.

What has happened to the Aboriginal race over the last 200 years can be regarded as a major trauma. If apologising can accelerate healing of these emotional and psychological wounds then that is what they will want and ask for. The remaining question is how will the rest of the country respond? Bearing in mind we have to live together and aim for peace.

If a schoolyard bully beats up a smaller child you make the bully say sorry to him. Simple.

I hope that helps you understand and can clear up some things for you.

Barnesy
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Follow Up By: Rock Crawler - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 06:50

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 06:50
Probably the most intelligent response on this topic so far Barnesy. Well done
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Follow Up By: Redback - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 08:16

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 08:16
Yep the Greeks were angles!!!!
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Follow Up By: Rock Crawler - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 08:24

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 08:24
were we right angles or rectangles lol
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Follow Up By: Redback - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 08:29

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 08:29
Rectangles!!! lol, Chris people in stone house shouldn't throw glass.

Baz.
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Follow Up By: Rock Crawler - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 13:50

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 13:50
Funny how people can reply to a question like Barnesy, and it takes my breath away on what a fantastic reply to a question, that good, that it changes your outlook at things . Then you get replies from people, that there sole purpose is to TRY rub you up the wrong way. hmmm interesting
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Follow Up By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Saturday, Feb 16, 2008 at 21:57

Saturday, Feb 16, 2008 at 21:57
Rock Crawler,

I can't agree more with your last follow-up. One regular very recently stated that he often has a dig and he gets a laugh from the reaction. It makes me wonder.... to get joy from winding others up :-((((

regards

Brian
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Reply By: Kevern - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:23

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:23
Empathy for what was done to Aboriginals is fine but if we as a nation have to admit our wrongs should it not also be expected of those that where moved from situations of neglect to say thank you.
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Reply By: Shaker - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:30

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:30
Interestingly, I head on TV tonight, that an indigenous child was removed from it's parents, actually from the camp on Parliament House grounds yesterday.
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Reply By: Bega Photographer - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:33

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:33
Well, fellas and girls, I guess this post has about run it's course. May I please make a response?

1) I'm so surprised that my post brought so many replies and follow ups. I thought that all that needed to be said on this forum about the apology had been said in previous posts. But I see that it is a very important issue to many.

The number of views of this post and the number of visits to my website are an indication of how important an issue, reconciliation between the white and indigenous communities is. And that's great.

2) For those who are not clear about the future for reconciliation or other aspects of today's momentous turn around, you might wish to read the apology and the speeches in full, on my website. Please see the links at the top.

I went to a bit of trouble to publish the documents in full, which is quite different to the TV, radio, print and online media news stories.

The purpose of my post was to offer you all the opportunity to read the account in full, given that many would have missed the live broadcast from parliament house.

3) Both the prime minister and the leader of the opposition seem resolute that compensation isn't appropriate. Kevin Rudd sees the way forward for the Aboriginal people in terms of money and effort invested in health, education, employment, community development, law and order, child protection and the like.

4) Those of us who witnessed and participated in the whole apology and those who've seen an abridged version on the TV news, have today participated in honesty and sincerity of the kind necessary for Australia to be a great nation. And we all have the choice before us whether or not to be great men and women.

Regards,
Laurie.
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Reply By: Craigzy - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:46

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:46
Mfewster, thank you for sharing your words of wisdom. Coming from a country where racisms was enforced by law, it saddens me to read some of the negative comment on this forum. I consider myself to be a proud Australian citizen and cannot understand the lack of emotion and humility displayed by some (even close friends). I love this country and will support it in all its endeavors to insure it will always be the best place in the world to live.

Craig
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Reply By: Member - Peter H (WA) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 03:04

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 03:04
Whilst I applaud the Govt in making the apology and as an Australian I agree that the apology needed to be made Im sick of people playing the blame game. Previous govts believed they were doing the right thing...history will show that it was in fact the wrong thing.

But don't...don't blame the aboriginal situation on what happened all those years ago.

What is happening with the aboriginal situation is largely of their own doing. Nobody is forcing them to live in humpys..nobody is forcing them to get drunk on a daily basis...nobody is forcing them to beat their families.

They need to get over it. Build a bridge. Eat cement and harden up.

Sheesh..how long does the average Australian have to take the blame for what has happened to the aboriginals.

As far as Rudd speanding more money on aboriginal everything. Why not spend the money on AUSTRALIAN everything. Aussie health...Aussie education etc. Its time Australia United as one people not white and Black. One law not 1 for black and 1 for white.
I am a proud Australian...does my colour rely matter???

Peter
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Reply By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 03:12

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 03:12
what an utter non event now the whole circus is playing out can it pleeeeze get over and done with so real issues can be dealt with
FACT (irrafutable)
no one is better off actually probably the time taken has diverted resources away from real issues that may have assisted people
If as much time and effort was spent on making a real difference australia and all its inhabitants would be better off
SHEEESH talk about fiddling while rome burns
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Reply By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 03:25

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 03:25
Alot of opinions on here but has anyone here actually known a stolen generation person????????????????
First hand and seen what the apology is all about???
Well i have!!
-sorry for the private school education
- sorry for the most loving family anyone could wish for including the stepbrother whom actually gives a damn
- sorry for the type of up bringing that caused him to be very popular amongst his peers
- Sorry he was given the chance to excell at football and cricket
- Sorry I spent a few weeks hanging out with him in Ceduna tpatrolling the dogfence with his (scandoulsy loving parents) freinds
heck i wish id been stolen
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Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 08:47

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 08:47
Davoe

I have met many of these people, they tell a very different story,and trust me, If you heard their stories you may not want your wish.

Try getting flogged every day, Just because you couldn't write right handed or if you wanted to do what you used to do before being taken, any way with a comment like yours you wouldn't understand any way.

Steve.
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Follow Up By: Waynepd (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:13

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:13
To be fair Steve that left-hand rule didn't apply to just Aboriginal children.
Any child in a christian school who was left-handed was treated as an "abomination in the eyes of the lord". This is a quote as near as i can remember from a Nun to a white, left-handed classmate of mine in about 3rd class 1965 or so...
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Follow Up By: Grey Gonads - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:45

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:45
Davoe,
he sounds like a lucky fella.
Obviously he didn't go to Canberra yesterday to hear the apology?
But from what I saw, there were many, many who were there and needed to hear it. Quoting one example doesn't speak for all. We are all different, and everyone has their own hangups.
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Reply By: Member - Jack - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:23

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:23
The "Sorry" speech was an apology frm the Australian Government, not the Austrtalian people. I thought that was a good way to handle it.

Now perhaps we, as a country, can move on.

Jack
The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 00:55

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 00:55
fear comment Jack

Regards

Richard
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Reply By: Waynepd (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:05

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:05
The one person who amazed me in all this was Malcolm Fraser. He was interviewed by Sky News agenda after the speeches.... His staunch support of Rudd goes against everything i have ever known about this one-eyed Lib. He still is a very articulate and intelligent man and i have found a respect for him which he never had from me during his reign as PM. Onya Mal...pity your little ex-treasurer didn't front eh?
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 01:04

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 01:04
Wayne

I think you will fine Malcolm was always this way, he ran a farm he's family owned..

sometimes you are born to rule, and sometimes you are born a socialist...LOL
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Reply By: Grey Gonads - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:37

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:37
How many times do we have to hear from 'ignorant' people who say "how can I say sorry for something that I didn't do, or wasn't even born when it happened".

Try this next time you run into a friend who has just lost a loved one....
"I would say sorry that you lost your (father/mother/sister etc.).... BUT I didn't do it and I wasn't even there, so I can't say sorry!!"

Its not that hard people, and you won't be held responsible for doing so! AND it might just heal some wounds for some people that need to hear it.
now who wants a hug?
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 23:02

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 23:02
Me please, I am one who has lost Daughter, Son and Daughters best friend.

Many Many people here said sorry to me and not one was responsible.

Healing accelerates with a sorry.
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

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Reply By: Member - Barnesy - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 14:10

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 14:10
There was genuine, unrestrained emotional relief from the thousands of Aboriginal Australians gathered to watch this speech. We will be talking about this in 20 years time as an important historical event.

The 1967 referendum received over 90% support and i believe this apology has a similar support.

All those who complian about a little bit of money spent on plane flights, or find some other thing to complain about, shut up! You really have no idea, you are in the minority and are making fools of yourself. Did anyone yesterday actually listen to the leader of the oppostion's speech?

Lets hope Rudd follows this up with actual incentives for people (teachers, nurses, police) to go and work in communities. These people get poor pay, live in crappy houses and get little support. Making it worthwhile for workers to go would be a good place to start.

Barnesy
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Follow Up By: Zapper - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 17:47

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 17:47
What makes you think that this apology has 90% support, all the online polls I have seen are nothing like that. The ninemsn one last i looked was 160000 no and 90000 yes, thats about 36% support

So who is in the minority again??
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Reply By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 18:43

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 18:43
This may or may not help people understand.

Why Warriors

Steve.
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Follow Up By: Member - Barry F (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 19:28

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 19:28
Thanks Steve,

Read it, get it, sorry, truly sorry for the people.

Regards
Baz
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 23:00

Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 at 23:00
Steve, the more I travel around this great country, the more aboriginal people I respect compared to the number that scare me. Theres one down here that did more no-good for the mob than anyone I think.

Time in Kakadu and Katherine is an eye opener and in many ways it both re-inforces and destroys the stereotypical aborigine.

I think that the apology will pave the way for something else, hopefully some greater effort of co-operation and also for our aboriginal brothers to build an identity for themselves that others will respect and admire.
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

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Reply By: mq swb - Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 11:12

Friday, Feb 15, 2008 at 11:12
Provider navigation:
Summary | AAP | ABC | Photos
Friday February 15, 10:29 AM
Up to 40 to ask for compo after apology
Up to 40 indigenous Australians are preparing compensation claims against the Victorian government following this week's official apology to the stolen generations.

Victorian man Neville Austin, 44, is planning to launch Victoria's first stolen generation claim.




His solicitors have briefed barrister Jack Rush QC, who was part of the legal team that won a $4 billion payout from James Hardie Industries for former workers exposed to lethal doses of asbestos.

But the head of Stolen Generations Victoria and Mr Austin's cousin, Lyn Austin, said while she could not comment on Mr Austin's case, dozens more were preparing similar claims.

"I cannot make comment on that case at all, but ... I do know that there are another 30 or 40 that are going to be doing a civil action claim," she told ABC Radio in Melbourne.

"They have a right to pursue a claim if they wish, they were removed through the policies that were upon them."

Ms Austin said it was a person's prerogative to take civil action if they wished.

"It should be left for the courts and people to have that choice and make a choice of whether they take a civil claim individually or class action," she said.

Mr Austin's writ is yet to be filed with the court and does not nominate a payout figure, but claimants in other states have won between $350,000 and $500,000.

Fellow Victorian Bruce Trevorrow won $775,000 when a South Australian court ruled his removal from his family caused long-term depression.

Mr Rush confirmed he was representing Mr Austin in a stolen generation claim.

"I can say I represent him, but I can't talk about the case at all," he told AAP.

"We haven't issued it yet, but it's in the pipeline."

Mr Rush said he has been working on the case with Mr Austin for 12 months.

However, he would not say how much compensation has been sought by Mr Austin or the nature of the case.

A spokesman for Victorian Aboriginal Affairs Minister Richard Wynne said the government did not yet know the details of the claim.

"We have not received a writ from Mr Austin and cannot comment on the specifics of the case," spokesman Ben Ruse said.

"The Victorian Parliament made a bipartisan apology in 1997 and this was reiterated in 2000.

"No compensation has flowed from this apology and our position on compensation has not changed."

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Reply By: blue one - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 21:29

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 21:29
Put all the emotion aside.

Think about the persecution of a number of races which we call aborigines for 200+ years.

Is this Australian?

Please advise.

Cheers
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