Rear Diff Lock/Front Diff Lock...????

Submitted: Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 18:15
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I will pass on some of past experience for those considering buying one Diff Lock, Brand or type is not the issue, I had one fitted to my 1993 Rocky in the long ago 90s, I made the mistake of fitting it to the rear, when I say mistake I would call it an 80/20 points mistake, in the rear was fine because being an Auto Detroit it was working 100% , so one fine day I decided to give it a test at Landcruiser Park, there I found the 20 points against a rear fitment, Basicly what I was driving was 3X4, 2 rear and 1 front, I had a nasty problem occur going up a steep hill , what happens the 2 rears were doing the job but the 1 front was having it's battle spinning and clawing at the dirt resulting in the front of the vehicle being pulled around , not a good idea on an incline.
Just thought I would pass that little hint on to people thinking about which end .
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Reply By: fozzy - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 19:42

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 19:42
Doug
same can be said with front and rear engaged trying to roll over a fallen tree-with all engaged you can tend to slide sideways and with all disengaged you just drive over
cheers
fozzy
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 22:09

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 22:09
fozzy
Should'nt be knockin' trees over .

Big difference though between a 1x4, 2x4, 3x4, and 4x4.
Now try and get your brain to work that one out.....lol

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Reply By: Member - Duncs - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 21:41

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 21:41
When I look into my toolbox I see a number of different tools, mostly stolen from my Father.

But the reason I have a range of tools is that it can be difficult trying to do up a hose clamp say with a hammer. Then again trying to drive nails in with a screwdriver or even a pair of pliers is interesting too.

Diff locks are tools. Good to have but you must know the limitations and risks involved with using them.

I know a guy who has a beautiful circular saw, he keeps it in perfect condition and the blade is always razor sharp. He is missing the end of his left index finger.

Duncs
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 22:05

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 22:05
Lucky he didn't Pick his nose with that finger then eh

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Reply By: Blaze - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:15

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:15
IMHO unless your LSD rear diff is useless then you would always go front with the Locka if you are only fitting one. With most modern vehicles you then end up with a totally locked front and LSD rear. If you fit it to the rear, all you get is totally locked rear and open front... Go figure!!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:21

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:21
LSDs are useless, that word Limited is there, besides the post about Diff Locks, LSD's are not in the race. Get bogged with an LSD and you still have one wheel spinning, the one less traction.

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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:34

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:34
Doug T

I have always engaged the front hubs on the various Cruisers that I have owned over the years for short periods when I havent been 4WDriving for a while just to keep the oil and grease circulating. I have an air locker in the rear axle and have been thinking about an auto locker in the front. I wonder what kind of steering chacteristics may happen on bitumen with an auto locker doing its thing with the hubs locked in 2WD? Any thoughts?

Cheers Pop
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:47

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:47
Pop
Good idea to run a few Ks to stir up the oil and lubricate seals etc.
You will notice a slight difference while the hubs are locked, after about 6 Ks you forget about it, this is Auto's I'm refering to, I won't have a bar of air operated,of coures the air owners will disagree no doubt, as for steering off road in 4x4 No problems, very slippery mud ( oozy black soil ) can be a challenge though but wouldn't be as bad as air's.

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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:50

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:50
Pop
Just set you straight on what I use in what , Detroit No-Spin Auto Lockers both diffs in a 94 Troopy,

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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 00:08

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 00:08
Doug

Agree 100% on LSDs, IMHO bloody useless. While I am thinking the auto lockers up front may be the way to go I think we will have to agree to disagree on air lockers in back. Many, many years ago I worked for the mob in Perth that were the agents for Detroit No Spins long before 4WDriving became as popular as it is now and the accessory shops took over. We used to fit them to all manner of mainly government vehicles from Cruiser size to trucks of 6-8 tonnes. They worked a treat in either application except in the smaller vehicles autolockers produced some unexpected steering characteristics on wet roads. Having said that the new "Softlockers" may not do this, I havent been involved with them for a long time. Thats why I,m on this fishing trip LOL

Cheers Pop
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 06:22

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 06:22
Toyota LSD's may be useless.
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Follow Up By: Blaze - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 10:33

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 10:33
Hi Brew, I can't comment on Toyota LSD's only what I've heard and that seems to support your statement.
I have a Mitsi and the LSD is brilliant, of course not as good as a locker but 80% better than open diff.
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Follow Up By: Blaze - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 10:41

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 10:41
Doug, I thought the post was about which end to put a locker if you had to fit one or other. I put a reply that was for all makes, and a Mitsibishi LSD is at least 80% better than an open diff.

If I ever do get spin with my LSD, one click of the handbrake and the back end locks up again

If you want members to add to your comments allow them to have their opinion. If you went to the Outback Challenge and asked them what the competitors thought of Auto Lockers, they will tell you they are about as good as a GOOD QUALITY LSD, because non of the top end competitors use them, they all use (positive) air lockers ???
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 11:06

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 11:06
Blaze
I put this post up just as a guide to help some decide what end to install a single locker based on my own experience,
The post is about Diff locks , not LSD's, but as you you raised the subject and stated an Auto Locker ( Detroit in this case ) is about as good as an LSD , anyone who has and used lockers would have to laugh at that totally silly statement, I know your only going by what you heard but you posted it here, I've used my 2 in all types of terrain except Rock crawling and that's for specialised vehicles as far as I'm concerned,It only stands to reason that 4 driving wheels will perform better, will be easier on the vehicle when negotiating sand dunes, I am fully aware there is a limit to everything, some have the impression that with diff locks the 4x4 will go anywhere, not true, but they still try , I see them here , I see them there,
As for members adding their comments and opinions , No problems but the original post stated this was only a guide to perspective buyers wondering where to install one locker, not a debate on brands and LSD's , If you want to have a post about LSD's then start one, and I can assure you I would not start up about Diff locks in it.

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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 15:46

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 15:46
Doug .you are the one who stated LSD's are useless. Don't get upset when people react to that statement.
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 16:30

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 16:30
Brew69
Yes of course I said their useless, useless in mud, and useless in the deserts, and I'm not getting upset, seems to be the opposite from people who have no idea about the effectiveness of lockers over useless LSD's that should be left to 1wd sedans in the big city streets.
besides it was not I who mentioned useless LSD's in the first place as I have already stated ,
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Follow Up By: Blaze - Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 02:12

Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 02:12
Dam funny then that LSD diffs were such a bonus when first fitted to open rear diff models. When these first came out it was a great selling point especially to owners of boats that had to pull them out the drink.

By your comments I guess you think all the manufacturers are wasting their time fitting LSD's.

I recall a couple of years ago climbing out Mitchell Track in the High Country. Des Lexic, John R (Moses) a mate in a Bravo and myself. About 1/3 the way up this incline there is a hairpin turn, Johns Nissan, the Mazda and my Mitsi both chewed their inner rear wheel as we made the corner, Des who has a 100 said his didn't even spin, (Toyota problem by whats been printed) but this isnt my point, if LSD's were of no use, why did they not slip and grabbed traction rounding the corner?

This post all started with you saying front Locker was the best choice, nearly everyone egreed with you including me, but you still found the need to put the comments of others down... must be a bad hair day I guess....
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Reply By: _gmd_pps - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:58

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:58
You just confitm common believe that you need locks for "real" 4w driving. load of cr@p ...

front locks are good for rock climbing but thats it ...
for sand and general easy use on tracks and gravel they are not very good. Air locks okj, you can still engange and disengage quick enough but in demanding situations where slip and steering requirements change quickly it can be difficult. The best and easiest combo for me is a seamless automatic solution with autolocks in the rear and a good limited slip in the front. Gives great tracktion in sand and mud, maintains steering at all times and lets you concentrate on the track rather than on your switches. But sorry and LSD was not adressed in your post. just shows that you have to keep learning a bit.

have fun
gmd
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 00:13

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 00:13
gmd
Your stupid unintelligent reply deserves about as much as I've wasted my time already.

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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 07:13

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 07:13
You started it Doug by making uninformed comments about lockers and lsd's. They make about as much sense as your comment in a previous post about spring mounts on a uhf aerial effecting transmissions !
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Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 11:40

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 11:40
why don't you keep driving your little rust ulcer with the yellow light and leave the thinking to the people with brains ... roflmao

have fun
gmd
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Reply By: Member - DOZER- Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 13:10

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 13:10
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ting splash....
why do 4wd manufacturers not put detroits in std?? because we drive them primarily on the road....
Most new cars today are front wheel drive...why??? something to do with weight over drive wheels....
The Land Rover 4WD was originally made to be a dual purpose vehicle, hook a slasher on the back at the farm or take it to town....if it wasnt far :)
Andrew


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Reply By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 21:04

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 21:04
Front diff lock, With LSD equipped rear

LSD best work when both wheels are moving, once one wheel breaks traction, some power SHOULD still go to the wheel with traction, Nissan LSD seem to put up a bit of a fight, Toyota's don't (well documented here),Detroit offer a replacement LSD (frt & RR for cruiser), for nearly the price of an air locker, point is while both wheels are turning, both wheels have drive.

IMHO fitting a diff lock at the front will go along way towards keeping ALL wheels turning, allowing LSD to work, There are plenty of Nissan drivers who follow this theory.

Those who don't have a rear LSD would gain more by putting it in the back diff.


Shane
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Follow Up By: Pezza (Bris) - Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 11:38

Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 11:38
The best and most informative reply of the lot Shane, well said.

Cheers
Pezza
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Reply By: Pezza (Bris) - Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 11:47

Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 11:47
You're a real rude pr!ck towards innocent people sometimes you know that Doug.
If you wish to continue to converse on an open public forum may I suggest you take some "communication skills with courtesy" classes.
As for LSD's being useless, strange then that I used to leave 2 black marks up the road in the monaro's I used to have, as well as getting far more traction off the line than when running an open diff, useless uh ??

Cheers
Pezza
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Follow Up By: Pezza (Bris) - Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 11:53

Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 11:53
Oh, and as for your little problem in your original post, you will find that as one front wheel was staionary it would have been acting more as an 'anchor', and the spinning wheel would have hardly been in contact with the ground, hence why it was spinning, it would have been the rear locker that 'pushed' you around, not the front pulling.

Pezza
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 13:01

Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 13:01
Go and suck yourself , when I want you to bark I'll wave a bone in your face,

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