Snorkels and performance???

Submitted: Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 22:30
ThreadID: 54685 Views:2917 Replies:11 FollowUps:21
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On the weekend I fitted a Nissan snorkel to the Nissan. After not driving it for a few days before hand I took it for a drive tonight to see the ol' man (Borgy) in hospital, and noticed it had a bit more power!

My question is am I dreaming??

I thought 'cos I haven't driven it for a couple of days, it just an illusion.

If it does make a bit of difference (I thought only a few kw's) would it be noticeable on the road?

I'm not trying to see if my Patrol is the fastest one around, just very curious.

What have others experienced??

Look forward to your replies.

Cheers Luke
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 22:44

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 22:44
its like tire threads, and power up threads, and hyclone threads

if you believe it went better, it did..
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:01

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:01
PS. was the temp hotter or colder than normal?
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Follow Up By: Member - Luke (SA) - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:12

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:12
It was still 36 degrees outside in Adelaide at 7:30pm today. Going by the standard Nissan gauge it was a tad under half.

Are you trying to determine anything in particular Truckie??
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 12:58

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 12:58
Luke,
I think he's trying to determine if a cooler ambient temp (than what you've been experiencing in Adelaide recently) could have been a factor.
The Patrol will run "sweeter" when the intake air temp is cold.
As for the snorkel, I reckon it may be a "placebo" effect. However, when you fitted the snorkel, was there anything in the intake area that you removed.....EG: a piece of foam etc? I have read that some Patrols have a bit of crap inside the inner guard that gets removed when the snorkel gets fitted. If so, that bit of stuff might have been slowing down the air intake a bit?
Roachie
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 13:25

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 13:25
Roachie right on both .

cold air and placebo...
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Follow Up By: Member - Luke (SA) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 18:02

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 18:02
Thanks Truckster and Roachie.

As I said above it has been very hot in Adelaide the last couple of days so it might not be the "cold" air. I think it might be me imagining it all.

The only real way to test it would be to put it back on the dyno to get a true reading, but i'm not really interested in going that far with it. I'm more curious than anything else.

As for something being in the intake area, I don't recall anything major that would have restricted air flow, just a few gaps in between panels like the inner guard.

Thanks for your replys

Cheers Luke
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Reply By: Dave from P7OFFROAD Accredited Driver Training - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 22:46

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 22:46
yep, you are experiencing Ram air effect!


Next thing you know you'll be smoking it up at the traffic lights and cruising to Maccas carpark with all the cool kids!



seriously, assuming that you have a ram snorkel head, there is a slight effect on performance.
AnswerID: 288060

Follow Up By: Member - Luke (SA) - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:16

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:16
As far as I know it has a ram air head. The head is off set towards the windscreen, so the air is deflected from the w/screen and straight into the snorkel.

Thanks for the reply

Cheers Luke
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 17:33

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 17:33
Sorry to be a party pooper, but there is NO ram effect from a snorkel.

You can get RAM effect from a Supercharger spinning at 15,000 to 25,000 rpm, or a Turbochager spinning at anything up to 4 or 5 times that speed, but not from driving along at normal speeds with a snorkel.

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Reply By: Member - Glenn D (NSW) - Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:41

Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 at 23:41
Hows it going Luke ,

When I installed my snorkle ,I had to remove part of the origanal inlet system in the inner guard. It was a metal pipe with a crusty thick piece of foam over the end .My one was very clogged up.

Does the 4.2 have this as well ?

I reckon my Patrol was better with the foam off only !

Glenn

AnswerID: 288072

Follow Up By: Member - Glenn D (NSW) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 00:00

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 00:00
Ok there is some post night shift spelling in that post LOL.
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Follow Up By: Member - Luke (SA) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 18:12

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 18:12
I'm going good thanks Glenn.

My 4.2 has a plastic air cleaner box tucked in behind the headlight. I used the air cleaner from the 2000 4.2 turbo when I put the turbo on 12 months ago.

I'm not sure what you are talking about when you say "I reckon my Patrol was better with the foam off only !" What foam are you talking about??

Cheers

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Follow Up By: Member - Glenn D (NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 19:51

Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 19:51
Hey Luke ,

To install my snorkel I had to remove the original inlet , I have the air cleaner behind the passenger side headlight.

The original inlet was a pipe that went from the air cleaner assy into the inner guard, the inlet to the pipe had a bit of thick foam rubber over it , my one was clogged with dust and almost solid , when I Installed the snorkel I reckoned the improvement was due to removing the foam mostly.

Not sure you have the same set up in the 4.2 though.

Glenn.
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Reply By: Member - Barnesy - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 01:09

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 01:09
Check the archives as this has been covered before. I think the general concensus is that it does increase power slightly, proven on the dyno. Probably mainly from a less obstructed air intake.

A nice big, straight through air intake is better than the air having to be sucked through tiny openings under wheel arches then trying to find a way into the engine.

Barnesy
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Follow Up By: Member -Signman - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 10:36

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 10:36
Hey Barnsey
Not being a smart ar$e, but how could you test the snorkel ram effect on a 'stationary' dyno ??Unless you could rig up a blower of some sort, pumping 100kph of wind into the snorkel head..
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 13:33

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 13:33
he never said the xtra power was from a ram effect rather fom a less obstructed inlet
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Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 13:48

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 13:48
That's right Davoe. Very hard to prove the ram effect. I have seen a dyno sheet pre and post snorkel and there was a marginal difference.
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Follow Up By: Member - Luke (SA) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 18:18

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 18:18
I think that's where "placebo" that Roachie and Truckster are talking about.

Thanks for your reply's

Cheers Luke
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Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 01:01

Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 01:01
I think what Truckster is talking about with a "placebo" is if you think something gives the engine more power then it probably feels like it.

That can't be measured on a dyno.
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Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 01:14

Tuesday, Feb 19, 2008 at 01:14
http://www.lcool.org/technical/120_series/snorkel/snorkel_performance.html

Check out this link Luke. This is one but I have seen another dyno test that got a similar result.
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Follow Up By: Member - Luke (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 20, 2008 at 16:14

Wednesday, Feb 20, 2008 at 16:14
Mmmmmmm....... thanks for clearing that one up Barnsey.

I had never heard that word before (placebo) and thought I could work out what it meant. I read it as place-bo. I made myself look like a real d!ck head there didn't I LOL. Oh well s h i t happens :)

Thanks again

Cheers Luke
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Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 07:03

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 07:03
I would strongly suspect that you are hearing a change in the intake noise. A more "throaty" sound is making you think the engine is more powerful.
AnswerID: 288095

Reply By: Member - Bucky (VIC) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 09:39

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 09:39
What you get is cleaner air, because your air intake has been removed, from under your guard, near hot road surfaces, to a higher slightly cooler point. You may experience a slight increase in power, due to that.


You may need to consider that the motor still has to suck air into it, not force ( super-charging ) to get it to work.

Your air cleaner will stay cleaner longer, ( mine did, even in the outback ) and hence a less resticted air/fuel mix..

Sounds good ?? now I'm confused
Cheers
Bucky
AnswerID: 288109

Reply By: Chich - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 11:11

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 11:11
if your engine is controlled via a ECU jumping in and driving it straight after fitting it wouldnt make any difference at all the ECU controls fuel/air and will only take as much as it needs, however after a small period of time when your ECU "learns" you may see a slight increase in performance.

you could reset your ECU to speed up the process, bum dyno is the best though :)
AnswerID: 288122

Follow Up By: Member - Luke (SA) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 18:26

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 18:26
No ECU on the 4.2

Thanks anyway

Cheers Luke
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Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 11:30

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 11:30
Performed better, or louder??? Could be a bit confusing with the extra intake noise next to your head.

Having said that it would be taking in cooler air along a long tube so you might get a bit of "ram effect" into your intake rather than taking in stagnant air from under guard
AnswerID: 288127

Follow Up By: Member -Signman - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 11:55

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 11:55
I think the snorkel is on the passengers side??
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Follow Up By: Member - Luke (SA) - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 18:24

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 18:24
Your right Signman, the snorkel is on the passengers side. I can only hear it when standing near it. I haven't driven it much since the snorkel was fitted and never with the window down YET.

Cheers Luke
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Reply By: Philip A - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 17:18

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 17:18
I tested my snorkel on my range Rover Classic V8 with a minihelic vacuum/pressure gauge attached to the input hose just prior to the MAF.
At 80Kmh there was positive pressure of about 0.5 inches of water vs 11 Inches of water vacuum at full throttle second gear up a hill.
So there is a TINY ram effect from a snorkel, which really does nothing in a throttled petrol engine, and would not do much in a diesel..
Regards Philip A
AnswerID: 288168

Reply By: lakedge - Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 21:11

Monday, Feb 18, 2008 at 21:11
In a similar vein I have noted a marked increase - 0.4 l/100km - in fuel consumtion in my 06 Hilux TD (note the consumtion figures appear pretty accurate from the standard computer) as the air filter gets dirty. It would therefore appear quite reasonable to me that one might expect a slight improvement in performance from a small improvement in airflow. I look forward to convincing SWMBO of the merits of a snorkel, especially one of the funky new flush type ones. The 3 inch pipe and chip may take a bit more work, however. Any suggestions gratefully received.

John.
AnswerID: 288219

Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Wednesday, Feb 20, 2008 at 18:54

Wednesday, Feb 20, 2008 at 18:54
Pajeros have the air intake in front of the radiator and then it leads to a Cyclonic Pre-cleaner - which will never clog up - as long you occasionally clear out the collector.

I assume when a snorkel is installed they throw away the precleaner because its too hard to refit. No doubt they argue that a filter sock does as good a job. Well the holes in the filter sock need to be big enough to let air through and that means any dust smaller than the holes will get through.

When I clean out the pre-cleaner collector I mostly get extremely fine talcum-powder-like dust, so it's obviously removing extremely fine dust.

As for a Snorkel providing cleaner air - when I look along a dusty road, I've never seen any great difference in dust thickness between 1 metre high (standard air intake) and 1.8 metre high (snorkel intake).
AnswerID: 288479

Follow Up By: Scubaroo - Wednesday, Feb 20, 2008 at 21:23

Wednesday, Feb 20, 2008 at 21:23
If anything I reckon the snorkel on my V6 Pajero has reduced low end power, and increased fuel consumption around town. On the highway though (~100kmh) I got maybe 0.5L/100km improvement in economy when it was first fitted.

Buy one because you need it for what they're designed for - water crossings.
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