Vehicle Recomendations - No electronic control

Submitted: Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 17:52
ThreadID: 55981 Views:3590 Replies:22 FollowUps:28
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Hi All,

I'm looking for recommendations for a 4WD that does not have any electronic control systems. I.e. with a carburettor, distributor, no body computer etc etc. It needs to be a large vehicle so a short wheel base in no good. Ideally I'd like the most comfortable option but I appreciate this may not be an option in a vehicle of this age.

All suggestions welcome but I'm not looking for a debate on why I don't want electronics thanks.


Cheers

Andrew
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Reply By: Anglo - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 18:02

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 18:02
A Landie Defender 110 series would probably be the closest match. Diesel or Petrol? Not the most comfie, but a length of bailing wire fixes most of the problems with it... :)
AnswerID: 295041

Follow Up By: Rod - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 18:07

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 18:07
'98 or '99 Defender 110, last of the Tdi300's. The TD5's and current defenders now have ECUs
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Reply By: Member - barry F (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 18:03

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 18:03
How about an ex army ww2 Blitz ? ( I think that is what they were called ) Big, green & meen & they could go anywhere, but left a bit to be desired in the comfort stakes.
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Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 18:05

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 18:05
Andrew,

GQ Patrol or 80 Series Cruiser

Around 1994/95 they all started to go electronic.

MQ and 60 Series would be good but were not very comfortable

75 Series has next to no electronics but again is leaf sprung.

Some of the early Defenders were straight forward, but I don't know when they went electronic.

Wayne
AnswerID: 295043

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 19:56

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 19:56
80s and hzj75 both need electrics. Last yotas that could be driven with the key off was anything poweredby the 2H. When I was in low radio reception areas so the back ground interferance meant I couldnt hear the footy. I would pull the control rod off the edic motor and drive with the key off
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:04

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:04
3F Petrol Sahara landcruisers from 1985-1989 (60series) have carbies, distributors and no computer, and for comfort, you can get the Sahara "extras" like bucket seats, dual air, icemaker, electric sunroof, fast glass, maybe even mechanical diff locks.
Probably pick one up for $5-6k. They chew thru the juice though.
AnswerID: 295056

Follow Up By: Dunaruna - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:09

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:09
What Phil said!

Hard to go past a 62 series sahara. The leaf suspension is easily converted to coil, much better ride and no load bearing loss.
Problem is finding a good one these days.
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Follow Up By: Dunaruna - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:13

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:13
and they don't mind LPG either with the head upgrade.
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Reply By: Member - 'Lucy' - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:15

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:15
What you are looking/wishing for was last seen on the Titanic.

I to would like one of these relics to replace my four (yep! 4) computers, managed 05 CRD JEEP with its 26 dash lights that can come on in either red, orange or green as well as either in blinking or solid mode. (Light diagnostic code list = 10 foolscap pages)

'Mother' of a thing that it is.

But as the man above said, that's how its been in one form or another since the early 1990's (post 'good old days')



AnswerID: 295059

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 21:23

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 21:23
Are you calling my ChevNissan the TITANIC? The only computerised thing I have is the GPS and the ipod.

Sooooo, get a big V8 upya!!!! hahahaha
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Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 22:32

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 22:32
Yes it was one of the life boats that sunk and was salvaged a few years ago.

Great big 4.5tonne slug of a thing.

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Follow Up By: happytravelers - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 22:24

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 22:24
I think you'll find your 05 CRD Jeep has a lot more than four control modules, depending on whether its a Cherokee or Grand Cherokee it could have up to 32 ECU's.
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FollowupID: 561341

Reply By: Scubaroo - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:22

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:22
Looking for a post-apocalyptic EMP-proof ride?

Sorry, couldn't help it!!
AnswerID: 295060

Reply By: stefan P (Penrith NSW) - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:38

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:38
Two words

Lada Niva

Nuff said!! :)

Cheers Stefan
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Follow Up By: stefan P (Penrith NSW) - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:40

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:40
opps had to be big....sorry :)
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Reply By: Member - DOZER- Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:38

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:38
A std van 80 series has no electrics, no tacho, no nothing....shift manually into 4wd even....
A gq 4.2 litre diesel or petrol has no electrics...the petrols are points and carbi till the efi ones came out in the early 90's....and i cant help but say the landies dont usually have any electrics either...headlights/wipers/starter motrs, etc when needed :)
Andrew
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 19:59

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 19:59
common misconseption Ive seen more 1hz stpped dead through electrical problems than anything else. All i takes is ne tiny wire to break trough corrosion and vibration
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Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Saturday, Mar 29, 2008 at 11:26

Saturday, Mar 29, 2008 at 11:26
Thats because there are millions more 1hz's around. What little wire are you saying stops them?? Must be the fuel solenoid one, as nothing else will...
A friend bought a 110 county v8 new off the showroom floor, and it would decide when it wanted to start, and if it decided it didnt want to start, NRMA wouldnt be able to get it going...the next day it would start ok.
The ring gear failed at 70,000kms, he owned a few landies before it, but none since...
Now i am sure this is an isolated case, where would we be, if it wasnt for the Land Rover company not putting coils under the rangy???
To get back to the original question...i would suggest before you go looking for points and condenser, you remember what it was like adjusting them and the economy was not as good as efi....the 1fzfe landcruiser in 92-2004 models is a reliable motor, with plenty of electrical gadgets and more importantly, they are relatively cheap these days...and accept gas really well.
Andrew
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Saturday, Mar 29, 2008 at 12:38

Saturday, Mar 29, 2008 at 12:38
Was just razzing you a bit. yes the fuel solonoid wire. Simple fix but only if you know where to look.
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Follow Up By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Sunday, Mar 30, 2008 at 00:42

Sunday, Mar 30, 2008 at 00:42
Davoe, don't keep me in suspense; where do I look?
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Sunday, Mar 30, 2008 at 20:47

Sunday, Mar 30, 2008 at 20:47
Theres a little rubber boot on the fuel pump with a single wire going to it (green i think) and they commonly break under there - there is also a fuse. if all else fails diconect the wire under the rubber boot and run one direct from the battery to the solonoid.
if the solonoid itself is stuffed so are you
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Follow Up By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 10:24

Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 10:24
Thanks Davoe
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Reply By: obee - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:57

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 19:57
horses in tandem sound pretty unscientific. My brother has horses on his place and I said they might come in handy for that fortnightly shopping trip the way things go.

Owen
AnswerID: 295075

Reply By: Member - David P (VIC) - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 20:36

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 20:36
a dizzy = electrics , better a diesel
AnswerID: 295094

Reply By: Willem - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 20:53

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 20:53
Troopy HJ 47 2h Diesel...Go forever. Comfortable. Good offroad. Prone to rust
AnswerID: 295103

Reply By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 21:15

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 21:15
You didn't specify diesel or petrol
I have an '05 HZJ 105 cruiser that fits the bill.
Slow as a wet week, drinks more than the flashy/faster models, has SOME electrics for minor things but primarirly mechanical.
LOVE IT, Its got me everywhere I needed it to go, First thing I was gunna do was turbo it, but now cannot justify $4-5K.
Its got windows that you wind up, by HAND!
Vinyl seats, vinyl floor
The only way you can unlock the door is to put a key in it and turn, how old fashion is that.
If you wanted petrol, you would have to go back to 80's
Shane
AnswerID: 295110

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 00:22

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 00:22
"I.e. with a carburettor, distributor, no body computer etc etc."

I think that constitutes a petrol engine?
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Follow Up By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 07:54

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 07:54
Thanks for your constructive input to this thread, I see now that the poster will consider a deisel, how many others have suggeted a deisel?
Sort of makes your reply to me a little pointless.
Shane
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Follow Up By: Mr Pointyhead - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 08:10

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 08:10
If you look behind the glovebox of the 05 HZJ105 you will find the engine management computer .....
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 08:38

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 08:38
If you look you will see that he posted that after I posted my "pointless" reply to you.
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Follow Up By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 20:29

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 20:29
Are you referring to the BCM (body control module),That operate the interior lights, headlights to come on with the ign, headlights to turn off when ign turned off, that sort of thing?
I suppose it is a computer, but it doesn't run the motor
It has a mechanical fuel pump, mechanical injectors, the motor does NOT rely electronics for its basic functions, yes it does have electric things that shut off the fuel, and probably some other NON critical functions, but can be removed.
A poster has claimed that he has seen heaps of 1HZ's stop because of a loose wire, yep, I can't argue with what he has seen, but it was Just a wire (Dave's words) something someone will find wrong easily.
Shane
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Follow Up By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 20:47

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 20:47
Fisho64, because you aren't a member I cannot MM you, so this will have to do.
I offered positive thought to the thread, as well as another point of view with regards to considering a diesel (no mention from the poster either way) .
Diesel WAS mentioned twice before I did, but was not "corrected" by you, and why did you take it upon yourself to make such "correction" when it has nothing to do with you in the first place, hence my "pointless" comment towards you.
I can see there was a number of post's placed after your reply which reinforced my view of considering a diesel.
One thing is for sure what ever goes up on this site will certainly have a great deal of scrutiny placed upon it, so other poster's BEWARE.
Shane
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Saturday, Mar 29, 2008 at 00:17

Saturday, Mar 29, 2008 at 00:17
no need to get all bent out of shape, not sure what the problem is.
But I guess its better if you excercise your aggressive streak here than out on the roads or tracks. But I'll leave you to trawl cyberspace for another target, Im off up north for a week with the family in 6 hours, so wont be on here.
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Follow Up By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Saturday, Mar 29, 2008 at 17:49

Saturday, Mar 29, 2008 at 17:49
Fisho64, Once you come back from your trip north you will find this,
It is ALWAYS a problem "talking "in text, because it is very difficult to gauge the tone of what's being said.
I "felt" you singled me out of other respondents with a very subtle, negative input and I wondered why?
You have now said that I'm bent out of shape, that I'm also aggressive, and should trawl cyberspace for another target, a target for what? more positive input?
You have judged me as some type of keyboard assassin, why?
You are the one who has made a personnel attack on me!,why?
Because I replied to a thread in a positive manner!,then replied to your negative with my own negative (OK, 2 wrongs don't make a right).
Once you get back from you trip and have a little time to spare, go back thru old threads and find aggressive, angry, argumentive reply's, post's or follow ups that I have been involved with and you will find ZERO.
I'm NOT the aggressive type, anyone who has anything to do with me will tell you that.
I hope you will have a great time with the family whilst on holidays and are not put off making future, valued contributions to this website.
Shane
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FollowupID: 561457

Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Sunday, Mar 30, 2008 at 13:27

Sunday, Mar 30, 2008 at 13:27
A mate from work lost his 2000 hzj105 down a creek...(and some of his kids too) once it was pulled out with a tractor, it was dried for two days and he drove it home...it was a gxl and he lost window control and central locking, but it made it home....he had to drain water from the trap every 10kms ...had it of been a factory turbo model with efi, he would still be walking...or even a efi petrol...
The 05 control ecu is for the egr and maybe imobiliser....a wire from battery to fuel solenoid would get it going if it went under....its amazing what you can do to get a diesel to run....thats why they are so popular, but technology has replaced dependability with power and low emmissions.
Andrew
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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Reply By: Member - Derek L (QLD) - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 21:19

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 21:19
Dirty old 60 series crusier, yeah that should do it. (the best A/C around)
AnswerID: 295111

Reply By: mikeyandmary - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 22:19

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 22:19
Maybe a 2.8 diesel hilux???

The only electrics I can find on mine are the glowplugs and the solenoid on the fuel pump. The alternator's a little underpowered though.

Someone else recommended the 3F motor. We had one of these in a troopy (1985 75 series) about as basic as you can get but the body rusts way too easily. If you're not a lead foot they're not too bad on fuel...

Anyway, have fun searching.
AnswerID: 295130

Reply By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 22:28

Thursday, Mar 27, 2008 at 22:28
Apart from performance that still can't be beaten today, a reason I brought a 2002 manual 4800 GU patrol was that it had minimal electronic systems , and where it did, and what it had ,could be shown to be more reliable than distributors etc.

It also had no turbo or hi pressure fuel systems and best of all it didn't have a fussy fuel that the girls dislike.

Only ever had one fault and that was a dam mechanical timing gear when brand new.
Robin Miller

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AnswerID: 295136

Reply By: madCrow - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 02:25

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 02:25
Okey Dokey, My turn now!
If you require big station wagon type rig have a look at a 4.2 TD GU Patrol. Before anyone screams the 4.2 diesel used in the Patrol was designed over 30 years ago, so there is no modern hoop-la electronics fitted, so you don't need a computer degree or a spare cpu (as you do for the 3L version) to get it going or keep it going. i.e. simplicity


madcrow

the bearer of bright bunnie rabbits. Go figure!
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Reply By: Andrew Main - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 06:38

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 06:38
Thanks for all the responses so far, I should have been a little more specific regarding diesel or petrol and I don't mind which. I'm trying to avoid anything with an engine management computer, body computer, door control module, cam sensor, crank sensor, MAF sensor, dikdsuekhwqiuwbckwuwfiwb sensor etc etc.

If it's got an unnecessary computer or sensor on it I'm not interested :-)

(And again sorry to emphasise the point but I'm not looking for a debate on why).



Cheers

Andrew
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Saturday, Mar 29, 2008 at 12:57

Saturday, Mar 29, 2008 at 12:57
Why?
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Reply By: StormyKnight - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 11:21

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 11:21
HJ60 Diesel, once started you don't need a battery ...in fact you need the battery to stop it! .... Unless you stall it.

The only question would be the oil pressure sensor system which shuts down the engine with low oil pressure which I believe is electrical......
AnswerID: 295223

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 19:30

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 19:30
What about the EDIC motor?

I had a 1984 HJ47 and a 1986 HJ61. I had a few breakdowns and all were electrical. Fusible Links breaking on corrugated roads, starter solenoid contacts pitting, external regulator failed on the '47; internal regulator failed on the '61; alternator brushes on the '61; glow plugs failing on the 2H; glow plug relay...................

Point is that theres plenty of electrical problems that happen on a mechanically injected diesel - most of which leave you stuck.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 20:04

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 20:04
They dont need the edic motor or glow plugs to work - trust me i drove 1/2 way round Australia without either
Kal - Kimberly-darwin-alice-kal with no functioning edic motor or glowplugs.
The modules,motors everything miraculosly all died just after getting the head done the day before the trip and i wasn gonna put it off
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 20:20

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 20:20
Davoe,
Your's is another example of a mechanical diesel having electrical problems.

Hardly surprising you didn't need glow plugs up north!!! But my 2H 47series had 2 dud plugs and wouldn't start in Alice at zero degrees in winter.

Yep, you can bypass a dud EDIC motor, if you know what to do. How many people do?
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 22:24

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 22:24
Not quite Phill I susected they were stuffed but it wasnt till i went from tennant creek to alice in about a day which was like driving straight from mid summer to mid winter. (mid may)
Below zero morning was a shock in Alice and yea it took a bit of starting but not that hard. 2 of the plugs were stuffed but the main problem was the conotrol module was stuffed meaning I had no glow plugs.
thought it was a bit of a cooncidence that all was fine before it went to the workshop but I got it back suffering multiple terminal electrical problems
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FollowupID: 561342

Reply By: Max - Sydney - Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 17:57

Friday, Mar 28, 2008 at 17:57
Try an 80 series L/c GXL Diesel - no electronics in sight provided you don't put your mobile phone in your pocket while driving it.

Comfy too even after 10 years or more.

Sell you mine for $50 grand!

Max
AnswerID: 295274

Reply By: Member - DOZER- Sunday, Mar 30, 2008 at 13:47

Sunday, Mar 30, 2008 at 13:47
Ive got to say...that some times it is worth using electronics like electronic ignition....keeps the car in tune better and wont stop if water comes near it....or when you run gas it makes it easier for the motor to cope with both uleaded and gas having a stronger spark.
That said, there were ways around water ingress....having a tee off the exhaust manifold running through the dizzy via pipe and valve when going across water and moving the air intake to behind your head works well....it all comes down to how dependable you need the motor to be.
The best 80 series is the diesel std van with nothing electronic, the early ones even have cable spedo and drum rear brakes. All you need to do to make them go anywhere is fit a snorkel.
Every car has some sort of weak spot, and the 80's is the front diff. A difflock makes a big diff-erence
Andrew
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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Reply By: KSV. - Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 15:24

Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 15:24
I personally dislike too much electronics in 4WD because I do not believe that it makes our forby more reliable. Little bit more grunt, little bit better fuel consumption – no doubt, but extra reliability – do not think so. But may I ask you those question what you ask us not ask you? I.e. WHY?!? Even biggest pessimist toward too much gizmos should admit that modern ECU (engine control units, either petrol or diesel) do not really contribute to breakdown at all. Nowadays they probably most reliable component of our cars. “Fixability”? Also questionable. For example what you will do if you have stuffed diesel high-pressure pump on field? Does it make you feel happier that it is fully mechanical device, but you still cannot fix it right bl00dy now? So as for ECU I will go for it these days without any hesitation. Fancy automatic 4WD management found in Disco-3 for example is another story altogether and it is clearly not for me at all :-))))))

Direct answer to your question is my entry-level 80 series diesel cruiser. Only electrical things is required to run it is mentioned before fuel solenoid and I am sure it can be blocked or modified to mechanical valve. I also use to have 60 series diesel. And although it luck such solenoid, it has another very annoying “feature” – glow plugs. Because diesels in 60 is “indirect inject” diesels with relatively low compression it is no way to start it by simple push – tow vehicle and extensive pulling required if engine cold. While 80 use higher compression engines (still indirect, but another kind of), and thus it is easy “startable” even from very gentle downhill, thus it can be started with virtually flat battery, while “fully mechanical” 60 cannot be. So what it your point? :-))))))))
AnswerID: 295790

Reply By: PeterInSa - Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 17:33

Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 17:33
Thanks for the replies above.
We have a HJ61 Turbo Diesel (Direct Injection)1988 Landcruiser and its main job is to tow our caravan. We are happy with this vehicle and it has not let us down in the bush, but there is always a first time.
So from the above I will find out where:
. The fusible links are.
. The internal regulator.
. Oil pressure Sensor.
. The wire to the Fuel Solenoid.
We carry the Gregorys and Toyota Workshop Manuals as well as tools and spares with us and a Sat phone to call for assistance. But it is better if we can resolve the problem ourselves.

Peter
AnswerID: 295812

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