70series front & rear track

Submitted: Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 19:53
ThreadID: 56128 Views:2083 Replies:8 FollowUps:12
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Was at the tradies expo in Brisbane & came across a person selling vehicles. I asked about the Toyota 70 series and commented that I wasn,t all that keen on one until Toyota fix up the rear diff to bring it's track in line with the front wheels.At such time it would make it a better vehicle off road.
Well I thought I'd must have insulted him as he asked me why/had I driven one off road & how would I know anyhow.
He then started to explain that the reason Toyota have done this is to improve traction. I beg to differ so I moved on wondering have I been wrong all these years?
Love to hear what other people think?
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Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 20:01

Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 20:01
The front track was widened to accommodate the V8 engine.

Toyota didn't do anything to the rear track because there is a new "workhorse" range coming out in 2009.

Also because they are bone idle and take their customers for granted. Contemptuous behaviour.

Despite that I still bought one and they are selling every one that comes into the country.

Hate to think what that says about me and other buyers because I still like it.
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AnswerID: 295844

Follow Up By: burnsy - Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 20:07

Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 20:07
I agree with Toyota's mentality (you'le buy what you're given )attitude. I have had many Toyota's with the present being a 75 series and I will buy another one but not just yet.
I think that toyota will increase the rear track when they run out of old 78 series rear diffs
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Follow Up By: KSV. - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 15:43

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 15:43
Pardon my ignorance, but what wideness of track has to do to diff? Old diff can be fit into longer axle or I miss something? But in general I agree with you – Toyota just utilizing old parts (axles I recon) and as soon as parts run out they mare track wider.
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Reply By: John S (NSW) - Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 20:01

Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 20:01
burnsy,

With tossers like that, it makes you wonder if they actually sell any vehicles at the expos.

Damn near all vehicles built today will have a wider track at the front than the rear to improve vehicle stability on the black top. its all about handling at speed.

Off road this makes no difference to how the vehicle performs, except having the same track front & rear makes the going easier on soft surfaces like sand.

Comes back to the arguement that '80%' of 4WD's never see dirt - they cater for the majority, not minority.
AnswerID: 295845

Follow Up By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 08:49

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 08:49
"Damn near all vehicles built today will have a wider track at the front than the rear to improve vehicle stability on the black top. its all about handling at speed"

I beg to differ. If they need to resort to that sort of arrangement to make it handle then IMO they need to find some new engineers.

My Pajero is the same front and rear and I'll guarantee it out handles a 70 series tojo.

On the other hand the current model Commodore is a few mm's narrower on the front.

So I'll also go for Toyota's arrogance, their "That's what we got so that's what ya get. Take it or leave it" attitude.
Sorry. I'll leave it thank you very much.
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FollowupID: 561966

Follow Up By: Off-track - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 14:03

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 14:03
Yes but I can guarantee you that if the front of the paj was wider it would handle even better. A lot of cars for a long time have come out with wider front track for this reason but in this instance I believe Toyota is just penny pinching in the interim.
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Follow Up By: John S (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 18:44

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 18:44
The commodores aren't a good example because they have IRS.

I should have added - 'for all vehicles with a live rear axle'.
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Follow Up By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2008 at 08:41

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2008 at 08:41
My Pajero has IRS too.. ;-)
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FollowupID: 562135

Reply By: Andrew from Vivid Adventures - Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 20:10

Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 20:10
A tradies expo... most tradies don't take them off-road.

As you identified I am sure it is nothing to do with traction, but likewise, it is hardly likely to make a significant difference to off-road handling.

I'd be surprised if you'd even notice anything driving it... after all, a lot of the time when it matters you'd be turning anyways and your rear wheels won't be in your front's tracks exactly anyways.

Nup - that one is a storm in a tea-cup.
AnswerID: 295847

Reply By: furph - Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 20:12

Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 20:12
Over the years, (in relation to the 75 series) Toyota have done some quite unrequired unimprovements.
First was replacing the front diff. centre with the Hilux one.
Replacing the nice solid gearbox shield with a prissy bit of sheet metal another.
Then going from perfectly sound 6 stud wheels to 5 stud configuration.
With the intro. of the new turbo diesel lowering the 5th. gear ratio. (and deleting the PTO, which I require)
Now increasing the front track without realigning the rear.
And the increase in plastic everywhere has to represent major improvements!
But they are still the best workhorse unit available, eh! My '96 trayback will see me out and then some.
furph
AnswerID: 295848

Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 20:18

Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 20:18
Not to mention shortening the gear stick by about 50mm. When I moved from my manual 80 series to my TDV8 trayback I couldn't work out why I was getting tendonitis (tennis elbow) in my left arm until I saw an older 70 series and noticed the gearstick was longer.

My arm needs to be at full stretch to use the new gearstick.

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Reply By: Crackles - Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 20:53

Monday, Mar 31, 2008 at 20:53
Burnsy I doubt the rear diff will be widened until the bodies of the Troopy & 76 Wagons are widened too, until then the narrow wheel track will remain on the rear.
You have to laugh at all the reasons given, like improved traction & better handling when all it was is they had to fit a v8 engine into narrow vehicle as cheap as they could. The salesman was probably right though that even if you did drive both you would barely tell the difference.
Makes you wonder how many they would sell if they listened to their customers. I know of 6 people that have the funds to upgrade but are holding onto older 80's & 100's waiting for some improvement.
Cheers Craig.........
AnswerID: 295860

Reply By: Member - Barnesy - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 01:45

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 01:45
How much wider is the track? 10-20mm? How is that going to make any difference at all to anything?

As for all of the comments about Toyota being contemptuous, not listening to their customers etc. I beg to differ. It is hugely expensive for car companies to design, build and transport new models out to the public for sale. If they can't do it all at one time then they stagger it, bring the new engine out first, then afterwards upgrade with new suspension etc etc.

Does anybody dislike the new turbo diesel V8? If you don't like the stop-gap models then don't buy it. Go and buy a Patrol with the big diesel oops Nissan don't have one of those at the moment!

Barnesy
AnswerID: 295903

Follow Up By: burnsy - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 07:26

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 07:26
Try 95mm on the track
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 08:57

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 08:57
Yep,

two inches either side.

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Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 14:17

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 14:17
Ok, i didn't know exactly how much the track differed. But one thing that would make more of a difference with on road handling would be adding coils instead of leaves to the rear. I'm sure that's probably somewhere in Toyota's plans to increase track and add coils.
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FollowupID: 561993

Reply By: Member - DOZER- Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 10:20

Tuesday, Apr 01, 2008 at 10:20
If anyone is interested, an 80 series hub fits the disc rear end 6 stud 75 series and widens the track 60mm....you simply swap over the backing plate, with handbrake and disc with hub.
The 5 studders may be thesame...i have some 100 hubs here if anyone would like to make a measurement of the 78/79 hub, wheel to hub face to axle to hub face...
My friend who did this mod stated it made his cruiser handle alot better on the road
Andrew
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AnswerID: 295930

Reply By: Redback - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2008 at 08:52

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2008 at 08:52
I think some of you blokes need to have a chat to an engineer that works on F1 or Ralley cars.
AnswerID: 296095

Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2008 at 09:40

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2008 at 09:40
What would he tell us?

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Follow Up By: burnsy - Wednesday, Apr 02, 2008 at 10:13

Wednesday, Apr 02, 2008 at 10:13
I think that some readers may be misled by my original comments the purpose of the post was to get feedback one the effect of the rear wheels not following the front ones in soft country.
ie almost 2 sets of tracks. From my experience a vehicle will go easier & further if the front & rear follow closely. I am not particularly concerned with high speed on road handling.I can use a road car for that.
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