Winches

Serg,

I can only go on practical experience.

I have had winches on all the 4WD vehicles that i have owned (4).

Pathfinder 8000lb Warn Winch
80 Series, first the 8000lb from the pathfinder and then later a 9000lb Warn.
75 Series 10000lb Ox hydraulic
78 Series swapped a 9000lb Warn for the 10000lb Ox hydraulic.

I have yet to get into a situation where the winch on the front of the vehicle could not cope. I also have 2 snatch blocks and will always use one when winching.

Wayne

yep KSV a 12,000 would be a minimum for a fully loaded 80. Ive got a 10 and that needs a snatch block to get anything happening.
Due to the flat bottom of an 80 the forces required to pull a fully stuck one outis amazing .
On a double line pull i wasable to remove the only ree within distance then I hooked it around a peice of granite just poking out of the ground. I ended up snapping of a peice the size of a chair and pulling it clear out the ground
Somthing about the utes probabally its just the diffs and TC which hang down make them a heck of alot easier to recover with a winch evan on a single line pull

The main reason for the High Mount, as used in Comps is the for its line speed. Not to many bars are made off the shelf to fit a High Mount.

Graig,

This winch question is probably most controversial – it appears there are as many opinions as many people. Also it is appears as strong tendency to believe that “more money = better winch” and it seems to me a bit of moot point

I have not got one and thinking to get one. Feeling in my guts telling me that PTO is strongest (also ugliest and bulkiest). But consensus on IH8MUD that electrical stronger and more convenient! Also they claim that PTO continuously has problem with shear pin – i.e. often get broken. And while I understand claims about convenience (i.e. winching speed and car speed unrelated each to other) I still fail to understand claims that electrical should be stronger then PTO!

Also I find quite a bit of strange your statement that low-mount 8000lb Warn has less pulling power then high-mount 8000lb Warn! I would understand if you say that 8000lb in Warn currency is better then 8000lb in NoNameChinaCr@p currency, but Warn vs Warn sounds strange indeed. Furthermore – according to specification Warn M8000 has 4.8hp motor and 216:1 ratio while M8274-50 has 4.6 motor and 134:1 ration – thus it looks like M8000 outperform M8274-50 and live it in dust! Yes, high-mount will be faster, but no way better pulling power.

I reckon that main difference in winches is duty cycle and water protection – i.e. better build more expensive units can work longer and more tolerant to water. And if competitors can do with 8000lb, surely I should do without any problem with 9000lb + snatch block. Not so fast, but I am not going to use it 15 times in 1 hour.

And actually I found really difficult to believe that 9000lb with block (i.e. 18000lb) is useless (come on! We are talking about more then 7 tons on first layer!), while 12000lb on single line will do everything. Have a look at Warn M12000 – 4.6hp and 5.4t @ 1.2 m/min on 1-st layer. Warn XD9000 – 4.6hp (!!!! The same motor!!!) and 2.7t @ 2.6 m/min on 1-st layer. So using block we will have 5.4t @ 1.3 m/min. That means 9000lb actually better! Again understandable that we have only half of our rope length and thus we need re-set it couple of times while 12000 can do in one go. So talking about convenience probably 12000 is better choice, but from pulling POV questionable. For me it is clearly understandable from motor size – it is the same in both cases.

Any comments?

Thanks
Serg.

I have found even funnier example in ARB catalog. Magnum 9K has 3.2kw/0.7457=4.3hp motor. Warn M12000 has 4.6hp motor. Both have 3 stage planetary gearset with 261:1 ratio. Magnum has 6.4 cm drum while M12000 9 cm. What that means? That means Magnum has better pulling power because its motor only 4% weaker, while its drum 40% smaller, thus for same torque it produce 40 more pull from first layer! I would understand and accept that M12000 *RATED* for higher load because internal guts more stronger, but I cannot understand what physics and mechanics make it pulls stronger!

Generally speaking I've seen, the more $$ the better the quality of the winch. There are a few cheaper ones coming through that are doing the job so far but equally there are plenty that are failing as well. I agree often the extra dollars are in the waterproofing & duty cycle.
Have had a PTO on my old 80 series & use several at work including a PTO hydraulic & despite them all having an 8000lb rating they would have all outpulled a 12,000lb electric without trouble & at 8 to 10 times the line speed. The sheer pin was an issue early on but it's diameter was increased on later models. If a sheer pin lets go it's generally opperator error as they should have double blocked it for the given strain. The problem for the opperator is guessing the weight as the winch appears to be pulling relatively easily at 8000lb compared to an electric which would have stalled.
My experience with 8000lb low mounts was based on an earlier model which wouldn't have had the 4.8hp motor. Still believe the high mount to be more efficient than a low mount as out on the trail they appear to pull far better particually when assisting with drive from the wheels. In the real world the bottom layer of a low mount has such a little amount of cable that by the time the slack is taken up one is often on the 2nd or 3rd layer which may go some way to explaining why on a vehicle the size of a Landcruiser they never pull very well.
Competitors using the 8000lb high mounts aren't normally using standard winches. Many have a longer low mount drum fitted and use twin water cooled 24V motors so they should be disregaurded in any comparison.
As for ratio's & motor sizes I'm no expert on what makes them tick just have seen plenty in action on various makes & models and know what winch can pull what. Speaking to a winch designer he did say that a bigger motor would not nessesarily pull stronger as many electical systems simply wouldn't be able to supply the current needed.
It's unfortunate that there is no Australian Standard test used to compare winches as the difference in ratings & claimed motor hp is very misleading. Have been looking to run a winch day with the lcool group and have a real life comparison of as many brands as we can get hold of measuring speed, line pull & amps. That may put a few myths to be then ;-)
Cheers Craig..............

Thanks. Quite a few points make perfect sense.I am also paranoid about how they rating motor power, but in last example Magnum is actually Warn made somewhere in Latin America (so I been told) – word “Warn” appears everywhere, so I would incline to think that their power rating comparable. It is truly beyond my understanding why it is impossible to impose some kind of standards in rating procedure, thus making winch selection much easier process.

Thanks for replay.

Serg