Alpine Diesel

Submitted: Friday, Jun 27, 2003 at 14:45
ThreadID: 5700 Views:1739 Replies:7 FollowUps:2
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Hi all, Was wondering about alpine diesel.It is obviously formulated for colder conditions but is it essential for a trip to the snow and could some engine damage result by not using it.Sorry but am a little naive on the subject and very protective of my hi-tech engine.If in doubt it pays to ask. thanks marcus.
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Reply By: GUPatrol - Friday, Jun 27, 2003 at 15:06

Friday, Jun 27, 2003 at 15:06
Marcus,
the way it was explained to me:

Alpine Diesel has additives so that the paraffin wont become solid in freezing conditions that is all, if not used the fuel gels and engine wont run (you have to pur hot water on the pump and pipes (this sometimes works), a friend of mine had to pull the injectors out when he got cought up in thredbo once ( he thought he was OK coming form Canberra).

Winter Diesel has less paraffin but can still gel at temps of less than -7

AnswerID: 23657

Reply By: desert - Friday, Jun 27, 2003 at 15:18

Friday, Jun 27, 2003 at 15:18
Yes GUPatrol is correct. The fuel retailers start getting deliveries of alpine diesel well in advance of the cold winter months. But as insurance, if you are spending any length of time in the snow, eg overnight, then it would be a good idea to plan to use all of your fuel to get you to the ski slopes, then refill with winter diesel just to be safe.
AnswerID: 23660

Reply By: herkman - Friday, Jun 27, 2003 at 17:06

Friday, Jun 27, 2003 at 17:06
Mercedes Benz in their diesel car handbooks, tell you how much Kerosene to add to diesel fuel for winter running.

However it should be understood i believe, that Euro diesel is a better quality than ours.

Regards

Col Tigwell
AnswerID: 23668

Follow Up By: Martyn (WA) - Friday, Jun 27, 2003 at 23:08

Friday, Jun 27, 2003 at 23:08
Col,
I work for a "fuel producer" in Australia, and I can assure you that we produce some of the best fuel in the world in Australia, is good enought to be transported to other countries around the globe, we make special cargos for very specialised applications, the fuel is also used in the airplanes that grace our skies. Sorry I just get a bit defensive being in the industry and knowing the technology we have at our disposal. We're "On the move".............. Keep the shiny side up
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FollowupID: 15862

Reply By: member-skippyking - Friday, Jun 27, 2003 at 22:20

Friday, Jun 27, 2003 at 22:20
Marcus,

All diesel in the southern states leading up to and during winter is "winter grade". I'm not sure if the "waxing point" is different between one area and another ie; alpine or the New England -16 degree nights. Someone may be able to answer this. Don't be too worried about how empty you get your tank as long as it is less than half.

It's really only when your fuel has been sitting overnight, or over an extremely cold day that problems occur. If your engine has been running, whilst there is still warmth in the engine it won't be a problem to get it going.

We had a piece of farm machinery had "summer" diesel in it when the dealers came to take it away after we traded it. It was a cold winter morning and it ran for about 20 seconds. This was a hi-tech intercooled turbo motor and they just put a litre of kerosene in the tank and away she went. Oh, and we threw away the fuel filter and fitted a new one as the 'wax' in the old one was just too thick. It sat in the sun for a couple of hours before it all dissolved.

As mentioned in a previous post, they have instructions in the Merc handbook to add kero, so it's obviously safe.

Where heading to the snow, from WA, in August. Can't wait. Hope you have a ball as well.

SK
AnswerID: 23691

Reply By: herkman - Saturday, Jun 28, 2003 at 08:51

Saturday, Jun 28, 2003 at 08:51
There are two problems with Aussie fuel, especially that made from Bass Straight crude.

1. It has a wax content, that in cold climates can clog your filters.

2. We have higher than Euro fuel, in regard to the sulpher content.

Neither of which are desirable in a diesel engine.

Regards

Col
AnswerID: 23705

Follow Up By: Martyn (WA) - Saturday, Jun 28, 2003 at 21:54

Saturday, Jun 28, 2003 at 21:54
Col,
I have to bite, I can't comment on the Bass Strait crude I wouldn't like to stick my neck out, but with regard to the sulphur in Diesel we are now running some of the lowest sulphur diesel you can find anywhere, it might not be advertised as ultra low sulphur diesel but a lot of it is, it is definately with the major oil companies, not to sure about the Woolies of this world. The sulphur acts as a lubricant in the engine, so it is good, but it's very bad for the environment hence the reason to go as low as possible. We now add lubricity agents to compensate for the removal of the sulphur, this is why the seals in injector pumps have to be replaced when you run low sulphur diesels after a peiod of time and this very much depends on the engine itself, running the old diesel was fine but when you change to the low sulphur diesels in an old engine you will find that the internal seals will leak eventually.
If you are saying that the low sulphur diesel is bad for an engine in the way that it can causes problems with old engines you are 100% right.
Hope this is taken in the right way Col. Keep the shiny side up
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FollowupID: 15907

Reply By: Member - DOZER- Sunday, Jun 29, 2003 at 19:32

Sunday, Jun 29, 2003 at 19:32
Hi If you have two tanks, you can run on the normal stuff, and switch to the alpine for a minute before shutting down for the nite. After she is warm, switch back in the morning:-)
Andrewwheredayathinkwer mike?
AnswerID: 23780

Reply By: herkman - Monday, Jun 30, 2003 at 07:46

Monday, Jun 30, 2003 at 07:46
Sulpher in the fuel is good?, this is the reason why Toyota and some other brands, will not bring their common rail engines here.

Sulpher in the fuel can cause sulphuric acid, which is supposed to be real bad for engine wear, this is usually caused by condensation, whilst the engine is shut down.

I was for many years involved in high HP diesel engines (up to 4500 HP) and locomotive fuel I understand (you can correct me if I am wrong) is poorer quality than what we buy at the pump. However in nearly 20 years I saw no apparent signs of sulpher doing any any damage. It should be remembered that loco's run much longer distances and times, than you and I will, between shut downs.

Your customers must be the lucky ones, because my friend at Toyota, who controls the fuel samples they take, indicated that there is a vaste difference in quality, from one area to another. He also indicated that even the best samples they obtained, did not come up to Euro standard.

Now I well understand, that from the government, we get a lot of hype about how diesel is going to be improved, but when challenged why in Australia be pay more usually for diesel, compared with ULP, than many other places in the world, they could not or would not give an answer. The savings in fuel economy, quickly go out the door, with the higher cost per litre.

What a shame that the oil companies, will not tell us all about what is happening with quality, because some people are indicating there is better grades to come.

For those who have common rail engines, they would know the increased power and fuel efficiency, that could be avilable to all, when this percieved quality problem, on a national basis is resolved.

Toyota, Pajero, Hyundia and I suspect others, have great engines, that we do not see in Australia, because the stands that their head offices are taking, with our fuel.

Keep up the good work, I suspect not many of us think of anything other than the price, when we stand at the bowser, as the "pocker machine" takes all our money.

Regards

Col Tigwell
AnswerID: 23817

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