Cyclists on the road

Submitted: Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 13:21
ThreadID: 57383 Views:3426 Replies:16 FollowUps:72
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Very controversial article. Surely car’s driver did it wrong, but heck, those cyclists can be incredibly annoying. I do not understand how they can be “legimite” users of any road above 60 km/hr. Healthy issue to inhale all road cr@p when heavy working also interesting question, BTW.

Serg
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Reply By: Mr Pointyhead - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 13:37

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 13:37
Why controversial ?

Some moron driving a car tried to kill or injure a group of road users by using their vehicle as a weapon. The police should throw the book at the fool when they catch them.

As for cyclists being annoying, are they any more annoying than slow caravans or trucks blocking up roads ? At least cyclists are easier and safer to overtake than some idiot towing a huge caravan at 80 Km.Hr in a 110 Km/Hr zone .....

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Follow Up By: Mr Pointyhead - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 13:41

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 13:41
BTW, I should add that I think that the people driving trucks or towing vans at 80 in the 110 zone have just as much right to be on the road as I have. It may annoy me but that is my problem not theirs.
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 13:47

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 13:47
Pointyhead
I have no problems with responsible riders, I do with pricks who ride through red lights , idiots who persist in riding 200mm to right of the side line when they have 1m to the left of the side line ,
And not to mention the fool who refuses to move over when he has a 5.5m oversize coming from the rear , and just on that situation alone don't try and tell me he has the right of way, he like all motorists must obey the directions of the accredited Pilot driver .

.
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Follow Up By: mike w (WA) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 13:52

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 13:52
Doug, I agree who heartedly with your comments. Again, its always a minority that run it for the mjority. The same applies for cars, trucks (lke the idiot I saw the other night running a red light at 3 in the morning, I hope there was film in that camera), motorcyclists, pedestrians etc. Everyone should be responsible for the their action and be courteous of other road users.
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 13:54

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 13:54
Pointyhead,

It is clearly controversial even from your replay, I am afraid. I strongly disagree with your definition “some idiot towing a huge caravan at 80 Km.Hr in a 110 Km/Hr zone” because most likely (s)he is doing so because of safety reason. Furthermore I would call “an idiot” some irresponsible caravan towers who tow them by inappropriate vehicle at dangerously high speed. But indeed I will call “an idiot” any cyclist who using main road with 70+ km/hr speed during pick hours. They far more dangerous (mainly for them) because of their invisibility. And I personally seen as such “ligimate” user hold bus full of people in the morning on very busy 80km/hr road. I never slam brakes in front of them, but if they became very annoying I can drive slowly just in front of them to allow them fully enjoy everything what came from my exhaust.

And BTW I have not got and never tow caravan and enjoy enormously ride my bicycle along Yarra River bike track.

Cheers
Serg
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:10

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:10
I think you will find that most of the arguements against cyclists are not unlike the arguments posed against 4wd's.

While, there is a very large number of cyclists who run red lights. Many don't myslef included. It would be rather sad if some idiot put me in hospital simply because he saw some cylist run a red light and beleived it was his god given duty to take me away from my family and kids.

Also as a cylcist, the law allows me to overtake cars on the left(which are stopped at traffic lights for example). This allows me to go up the front of the que and see when the lights are changing red in the other direction. Let me tell you that 9 out 10 times the last car runs a red light. So it's not just stupid cyclists who do this.
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:22

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:22
Doug,

As you would probably know from your line of work people can be ignorant of things they have little experience with.

From your comment I am guessing that you don't ride a bike much. Let me tell you that generally anything on the left of the side line is rubbish. When you are riding on a tyre which is 1/2 an inch thick and at 120 psi you need a very smooth surface. The left of the side line usually has chips, potholes and things like branches and bottles which can be very dangurous.

R.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:37

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:37
And from someone who has been on the receiving end of a car driven by a drunk driver whilst out training on a bike; moving closer to the left just means you'll be squeezed into the gutter. Besides cyclists are entitled to use the 'whole' lane.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:58

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:58
If, as you say, you are entitled to use the whole lane, which I doubt, maybe you should pay registration fees!
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:19

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:19
Hi Shaker

Bikes are considered a vehicle and entitled to the same road use....including the use of a lane.

Better minds than mine have argued the registration, but in a nutshell non-road users and cyclsits already subsidise the construction of roads and associated infrastructure through the taxation system. Maybe we should stop that and increase the registration fees for vehicles to reflect the real cost of providing these services?

NSW Cycle Road Rules
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:24

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:24
Landy

It's interseting that the laws expect a 13 year old child to ride on the road.

In QLD any cyclist can ride on the footpath as long as they give way to all padestrians.

R.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:28

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:28
Landy I see the link that you posted describes the bicycle as a 'vehicle', & the rules must be read in conjunction with the Australian Road Rules which state:

Part 11 Keeping left, overtaking and other
driving rules

Division 1 General
125 Unreasonably obstructing drivers or pedestrians
(1) A driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another
driver or a pedestrian.
Offence provision.
Note: Driver includes a person in control of a vehicle.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:56

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:56
Shaker...I'm no lawyer so I'll just exercise common sense and if there is a cyclist using the lane I won't run them down.

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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 17:28

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 17:28
robak
No one to my knowledge has suggested deliberatly trying to hit a cyclist running a red light , that'll happen naturally ,
Thing is though, the cyclist will ride a redlight,even one with a camera, why not drive his car through a red light, Oh no the car has a rego Number ...maybe so should Bikes.
.
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 17:42

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 17:42
robak
So your saying because a cyclist wants to have his rights he expexts a 100 tonne + to nearly stop on an incline , plus any traffic he has behind because the clown is so ignorant of what's happening around him , of course this situation arises when the truck has oncoming traffic , I think common sense will prevail , I'm sure the cyclist's helmet wont help if hit by an 8m wide Dump Truck tipping body. Simple thing is Obey the laws and no body gets hurt.

.
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 17:53

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 17:53
Doug

I know a lot of cyclists run red lights. just like many pedestrians. But most times a light changes to red the last car runs a red light so lets not take the moral higher ground. And remeber that almost all cyclists are drivers too.

it seems that people justify they're anger and agressive behaviour at cyclists because they run red lights. I don't run red lights yet I have to put up with people constantly turning left in front me, changing into the lane where I am. Pull out from side streets, not give the required 1 metre when overtaking, and generally fail to give way, etc.

While some may not like these rules, they are law for drivers and cyclists. Some poeple don't like bullbars in the city, but until a law prohibits them, people must accept the rules.

If anybody wants these rules changed then thats what your state repersentative is for. Once enough people want the change, it is put to parliament and a law is made. Thats what's called a democracy. The vigilante tactics of driving slowly in front of group of cylists don't belong in this country.

R.

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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 17:58

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 17:58
Doug,

RE: the 100+ tonne truck.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say.

You say to obey the rules but what rule has the cyclist broken in your situation?

We can always find extreme situation of things not going right. Maybe the answer is for cylcists to spend one day in your job and for you to cycle around the streets for a day or so.
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 18:26

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 18:26
robak
Are you bloody brain dead or what ,I'll post it again....

and just on that situation alone don't try and tell me he has the right of way, he like all motorists must obey the directions of the accredited Pilot driver . A fine is imposed in WA ,

That means if directed to pull over by the pilot driver/Authorised Person and get of the bike then that's exactly what the cyclist should do, after all it is for his safety,

I get the feeling your going to defend the rights of a cyclist no matter what the situation , and I'm stuffed if your cyclist mind can absorb such complicated information,

Any further comments from me on this subject will be a total waste of my time ,

.
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Follow Up By: Member - Fred G (NSW) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 20:11

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 20:11
Geez Doug, something or someone, or a long not forgotten incident lit your fuse on this one...This news article is a dead set road rage situation, no place on any roads in Oz for road rage mate....Don't wide/long/ hazardous loads (especially 100T +) have escort/PILOT vehicles that round up all the problem children and keep them safe until danger has passed?
If they disobey and become pests after all those appropriate warnings, then they are entitled to become "speed humps".
Keep smiling mate...how's Rick going :-)
Fred.
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 09:36

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 09:36
Doug

Calling people braindead does not give you any crediblilty on this forum . Perhaps we both should take an IQ test.

My applogies for not reading your earlier post that the 100+T had an escort. In this situation the rider was in the wrong. Fact is, you have previously mentioned that all sorts of drivers fail to pull over, and credit should be given to you for educating people on this forum on what to so. However you don't call for all drivers to banned off the streets to make your job easier, so why pick on the cylcists.

Most, maybe all, people don't know all the rules. For example, did you that if you're turning into or out of a street you MUST give way to ALL pedestrians crossing either street. I hope you did, because you are a professionsal driver.

We will always find examples of bad drivers in cylcists, sedans, trucks and dare I say escort vehicles.
Awerness, consideration and courtesy are what keeps our roads safe. Not some hot headed morons who feel it is their duty to hand out justice.

R.
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Follow Up By: rooscoota - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 11:59

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 11:59
Any further comments from me on this subject will be a total waste of my time ,

lol ya got that right didnt see a truck 8 metre wide dump body or pilot vehicle for that matter


you gotta get out more doug i used to be a diesel eatin, sleepin, breathin neanderthal once but then i realized there was more to life out there than just the cab of my big banga/pilot vehicle and/or website.......... get a life doug the diesel fumes are gettin to ya

cheers

roo
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Reply By: mike w (WA) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 13:42

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 13:42
Serg,

A very stupid and cowardly act by this car driver. One could probably ask the same question of him as you have of the cyclist- How can an uncaring, angry and dangerous driver be classed as a legitimate road user?

Having been on the receiving end of bleep s such as these, I have no empathy for any road user that treats another legitimate road user (by law) with the contempt that this bleep wit has, regardless of cyclist, motor cyclist, stereotypically metrosexual vespa driver etc. Regardless of whether he has been made an extra minute late for his soyamochacappalatte, at the end of the day it is actions of stupidity such as these that WILL kill someone.

Cyclists annoying, yes at times, but so are silver haired geriatrics towing caravans 25+km below the speed limit ;)

Have a good one
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:07

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:07
He-he-he. Do not cal anyone “silver haired geriatrics” – everyone going to be there :-)))))

Cheers
Serg
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Follow Up By: mike w (WA) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:12

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:12
Very true Serg, just that some of us have a longer wait than others ;)
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Reply By: Member - Willie , Sydney. - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 13:44

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 13:44
Yes , I fail to see what is controversial about this article . Please explain what you mean .
Willie .
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:03

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:03
Very simple, Willie. Car’s driver did very wrong thing. Even if he just trying to “frightened” them it is still absolutely irresponsible stupid and dangerous act. But tell me who are most annoying road users to you? I do not know where you live and what you are doing in the mornings, but I drop my SWMBO each and every day in city of Melbourne and as for me bicyclists is most annoying, arrogant, selfish and dangerous road users.

Thus from one hand I cannot support car’s driver, but from another I do not have much sympathy to cyclists either. Therefore as least for me it is controversial situation (errrr… perhaps “controversial” not exact word in this contests, but I think you know what I mean)

Serg
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Follow Up By: Member - Willie , Sydney. - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:03

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:03
You do not have much sympathy for these cyclists . Wow Serge , you must be a as big a loony as the guy that caused the accident .

Willie .
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:21

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:21
May be you right, but I do not think so. Fact is bicycles give me most sh1t on the road. Probably it is just because I have to use very “bicycle-prone” routes on regular basis – I do not know.

Cheers
Serg
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Follow Up By: Member - Warfer (VIC) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 17:52

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 17:52
Willie

You need to spend some time on the Mornington Peninsula mate...Arrogant b####s..3 or 4 abreast blocking the lanes,I wont go on about the red lights and the ol boy that was killed recently through not stopping ...
I've had a few run-ins with them,but when they know they have done wrong they'll take the heat...
Recently i was heading towards the bay and this idiot was in the middle of the lane for about 500 metres, when i got to the lights i gave it to him..(oh i wanted to turn right he said) I said its no wonder you get knocked off your bike...


At one stage the Police Chopper constantly watched there move's..But heah I'd say 40% do the right thing...

I have not read the article yet


Cheers
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Reply By: Member -Signman - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:10

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:10
Geez- I thought 4WDing was expensive...
$9 grand for a pushie !!!!- (now how many Cooper Tires could I buy with that) ??




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Follow Up By: mike w (WA) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:14

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:14
And thats getting on the 'cheaper side' these days.

And to think for all that money, you are lucky to get 7kg of machine that still needs to pushed by someone
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Reply By: Wetty - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:36

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:36
Make them pay rego and insurance the same as other road users have to and see how many of the tools ride in traffic. We have them here riding in the very early morning with just one piddly little LED light on the front, nothing like giving them a cold bath with bottled water, mind you a bit of two week old road kill on their spandex and lycra suits is good too! Get off the bloody road and use a velodrome. . . . . yes this is a pet hate of mine too.
Cheers
Wetty
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Follow Up By: Rocky_QLD - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:44

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:44
Lycra Larrikans?
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:51

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:51
Bicycles should only ride on bicycle tracks
4wd's should only drive on 4wd tracks

BTW - a lot of the Lycra Larrikans do pay insurance.
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Follow Up By: Ray - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 09:24

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 09:24
I believe but correctme if I am wrong but in W.A. bicycles had to be reregistered some years ago but can you see parents registering the bikes of kids? Some of those kids are as bad as hoons and should have their bikes confiscated if they do the wrong thing.
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Follow Up By: Rossco td105 - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 10:10

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 10:10
G'day Wetty,

Don't want to get really started on this, always seems to get people fired up. In case you or anyone else cares, I pay vehicle registration (and insurance) on three vehicles, when not driving on this countries roads, I ride my bike, as is my choice and my right. I believe I am contributing to the care and maintenance of these roads through this and the tax I pay every week.

I obey road rules and believe a lot of cyclists do. I ride with a HID head light and 7 LED tail light that can be seen easily for 500+ meters at night (tested). I still seem to have narrow misses from drivers not paying attention.

Thank you for your valuable thoughts,

Ross.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 11:40

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 11:40
Cant believe some people think bike riders dont contribute towards taxes for roads etc?? thats just dumn
A very small % would ride the bike because they have no car - but most bikeriders put in as many ks in the car if not more than non bike riders
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Reply By: The Landy - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:58

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 14:58
I find the most annoying road users the ones who have no respect for other road users.

It is intimidation with little regard for someone else (or their life). Like it or not cyclists are legitimate road users who have every right to be there as everyone else.

Possibly heavy transport drivers on the Hume Highway at night in their massive B-doubles find us mere four-wheel drivers annoying, but imagine the uproar in here if they staring muscling us around; same thing.
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Follow Up By: Wetty - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:33

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:33
Make em pay rego and put mirrors, indicators, brake lights and headlights on and then they can use the bloody road. Even those piddley little scooters have to pay registration so make a cyclist do the same if he/she wants to be a temporary Australian.
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:38

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:38
Landy, I do know that they legitimate and cannot do anything about it. I still strongly believe that this particular law (make bicyclists legitimate road users) been invent by mad cow after whole night of drinking. And believe me that it will change one day when we will have more of them killed on the road then anyone else. They can ride drunk, in thongs, cut cars, go through red light, slow buses and nothing can be done about them because they do not even have license to take it off! My strong opinion that they should be completely removed from any roads with 70+ km/hr during peak hour – there are plenty local streets around, why do not use them? Nope, they will be slowing all traffic even on the roads with service line. And we have to bear these pests of the roads as long as they will be legitimate.

Serg.
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:42

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:42
Also think how much carbon dioxide produced by all cars been held in traffic by one bicycle. And after that tell me how green this transport actually is.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:56

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 15:56
Everyone subsidises the cost of road construction and maintenance through taxes levied and paid into consolidated revenue. If motorists want exclusive use of the roads than pay the full cost of construction and maintenance through your registration – that would send it through the roof ….cyclists and other non-road users already subsidise your road use.

Motor vehicle registration fees don't cover the costs of road safety measures, nor the health costs of road trauma, car pollution and our increasingly sedentary lifestyles. Perhaps cyclists should actually receive a tax rebate for every day we ride because we are less of a burden on the health system and the public purse.

Serg….bike riders are subject to the same laws as car drivers, including drink driving (riding in this case) laws. And can be booked for speeding…
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Follow Up By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:09

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:09
Landy, can they be booked for going too slow, as car drivers can?
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Follow Up By: Wetty - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:10

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:10
Exactly how do cyclists subsidise my road use???? And yes I agree that rego doesn't cover the full cost of road construction or maintenance (can see that from the crap roads we have) if a cyclist wants to put him/herself on a road with other vehicles, then they should have to pay just like the rest, after all they are designed to transport people are they not? Might have to start a Mr Scrubby debate too, I'm sure he hates cyclists as much as he hates all things on the road, cept pedestrians of course!
Enough said from me on this topic. . . . . till it comes up again! LOL
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:17

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:17
Landy,

“Serg….bike riders are subject to the same laws as car drivers, including drink driving (riding in this case) laws. And can be booked for speeding…”

I do know this as well, but all this is no more then big theory – in practice it never happens. Road costs not only came from registration, but mainly from taxes on fuel, thus motorists pay for roads in full.

Riding bike in park or by bike trail along the river indeed very good for you health. But continuously riding bike on road polluted with carcinogen substances and actively ventilate your lungs with those substances is questionable from health POV – quite smoke on the bench in park probably does less harm.

Also I found funny that if I like to ride p1ssy scooter, then I have to learn how to ride it for 9 hours, then have to have learn license for 3 month, pay money for this and pay rego for p1ssy scooter as well, while any lunatic with motion disorder can jump on bike and became legitimate road user.

Oh, and BTW I am riding mountain bike on Saturdays and Sundays.

Cheers
Serg
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Follow Up By: Member -Dodger - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:24

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:24
oh and of course our fuel taxes pay for what?
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

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Follow Up By: Member - Paul Mac (VIC) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:30

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:30
Landy,

You mean they don't muscle us around already?????? Geeeesh, I'd hate to be on the Hume when they do.

I've had several close encounters from B-Doubles whilst driving on the Hume at night and I wasn't going slow or doing anything annoying. One transport passed me and I estimated he had to be doing around 140kph. I estimated this because that's how quickly he came up behind me and when he passed he came back into the left lane when he was about 3/4 truck length passed. I know most transport drivers aren't like this but like the motorist in the article, its the cowboys who act irresponsibly that make our roads a dangerous place to be.

As a young driver my dad told me that I was a clown behind a drivers wheel...................and so is EVERYONE else and that's how you should drive. Never underestimating what anyone else may or may not do and always remain alert.

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:32

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:32
Serg.
...and where do you think the air in your car comes from.

BUT wait. Cyclists don't produce those carcinogenic substances. So they are actually good for the other drivers around them.
:)
R.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:53

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:53
Serg

"Oh, and BTW I am riding mountain bike on Saturdays and Sundays."

Enjoy!
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 17:08

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 17:08
Robak,

IMHO it is a big difference sit calm versus doing heavy job pedaling uphill. When you do heavy job like this your lungs pass through many times more air then when you resting. AFAIK riding bike on polluted road by no means healthy exercise.

Serg
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 17:33

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 17:33
Serge you could be right. However that is not why you don't like cyclists, is it?
As I said before arguments against bicycles on the road have as much merit as the arguments against 4wds in the city.

While I don't ride far to work (10 minutes max), I ride most days and on the edge of the CBD. I have found that the majority (99%) of drivers are fairly curtious. When I ride in a predictable way, as well as anticipate drivers (illigal) manouvres, there's never an issue.

As a cyclist you learn to read the road and can hear problem drivers coming up behind you.

The dangourous drivers generally fall into two categories
1. people with a grudge - usually men between the ages of 30-45 in high powered utes, white vans and vn commodores.
2. ignorant people - women in small cars

I've only ever had one serious issue with a driver. He did a left turn right in front of me, and it happened to be a 4wd. But being a Lexus it wasn't one that went off road. Other then that I find that 4wd's are very good to cyclists. Maybe because they are aware of their size. Unlike small cars who think they're tiny when their width is not that much less then a 4wd.

R.
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 08:34

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 08:34
Robak, would you believe it or not, but I would be NO 1 in voting line to free inner Melbourne from cars and completely give it to bicycles. I read that in some countries in Europe wide spread “bike sharing”. One need to pay a deposit and get a card for it. By this card (s)he can unlock and use any bike standing in bike rack. When arrived to destination simply put it in any other rack. Marvelous. Just make parking outside city (say 3-4 km from centre), provide bikes and I would be first to use such great service.

Heck, I am not against bikes - quite on the contrary. But I am against bikes on main roads.

Cheers
Serg
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FollowupID: 568963

Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 09:49

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 09:49
Serg,

That bicycle borrowing scheme is about to start up in inner city Brisbane.

I think banning cars from cities is going a bit far. But placing bike lanes in inner areas would certainly help seprate bike and cars. If that means registration or fees on cyclists then so be it.

Actually back when I was a little fella living behind the iron curtain all year 8 students had to do a bicycle "licence" whose aim was to teach kids about road rules. Maybe that's not such a bad idea considering that in most states a 13 year old child is not allowed to ride on the footpath and therefore must ride with other traffic.

R.
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FollowupID: 568980

Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 10:30

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 10:30
Why not close INNER city for cars? In Melbourne for example we are talking about area somewhat 1 km per 1 km only. We have Swanston St banned from cars and no one have problem with that. I truly believe that everything from Swanston to Queen in one direction and from Collins to Lonsdale in other direction can be banned from cars without ill effect right now. Furthermore removing buses from other streets and allow them to use car-free zone as well as disallow any parking on King, Flinders, Latrobe and Russell will only make driving through city easier.

Serg
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FollowupID: 568988

Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 10:46

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 10:46
Serg,

Keeping cars in the inner cities keeps the cities alive and shops trading. I believe the experience from the early 80's when new malls were all the rage, was that many of these areas died in atmosphere and financially. Many of these mall (internationally) subsequently reintroduced cars at low volumes

While some malls are able to support themselves, banning cars outright makes people go shopping somewhere else (like suburban shopping centres) and the CBD dies. The answer lies somewhere in between with narrow lanes for cars. One in each dierction with some parking. This allows space for bike lanes, pedestrains and slow moving two way traffic for pick up and drop offs as well as for deliveries and busses. Grey street in South Brisbane is a good example.

You will find that Melbourne's two way CBD streets give a much more pleasant experience then Brisbane's one way 5 lane roads through the city centre.

R.
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FollowupID: 568992

Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 11:02

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 11:02
Robak,

Mate, I have a lot of experience driving through Melbourne two-way streets in morning and evenings peak hours and let me assure you that you can call this experience anything, but pleasant! City shops will be reduced? Firstly I do not think so because I am talking about rectangle 500m per 750m only – easy to walk. And even if they remove some shops from city and make them in suburbs it would be only better – again less cars in city and less pollution because people will drive shorter distances to shops. Will CBD dies even if all shops gets removed? Do not think so. Plenty other things to do.

Cheers
Serg
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FollowupID: 568995

Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 11:25

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 11:25
Serg,

For some reason I thought you were talknig about a larger area like 1km x 1km. Calsing traffic to the smaller area may have some merit. Put it forward to your council and see what they say.

R.
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FollowupID: 568997

Follow Up By: Member - Jaap C (QLD) - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 11:42

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 11:42
Robak
You need to brush up on your road rules
If you are behind then the car in front may turn left and you must give way
A motorist may also enter a bike lane in order to turn left (see Qld transport rule book)
You don't have a god given "right" to expect everyone else to stop for you
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FollowupID: 569003

Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 12:51

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 12:51
Jaap

Perhaps I was being obtuse, so I'll explain it in more detail just so you can understand.

Imagine a one way, 4 lane, 50km/h road. I am riding in the left lane. He is driving in the centre left lane. I am in front. He revs up his engine (at which point I know to be careful), changes to the left lane where I am so that we are side by side. When he is about 3/4 in front of me, he turns left into a side street. I apply the brakes to avoid a coliision.

Is that clear enough for you Jaap C. Why do I think your attitude is not going to change no matter who was at fault.

By the way, thanks for the tip on the road rules. I'll make sure to brush up on them.

R.
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FollowupID: 569011

Reply By: Shaker - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:01

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 16:01
There seems to be no logical rules for cyclists, surely they should be restricted to single file inside double white lines?

And before the cyclists here get their lycras in a knot, I do ride a mountain bike & at times on the road.
AnswerID: 302702

Follow Up By: DIO - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 18:29

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 18:29
As stated earlier, cycles are indeed considered to be vehicles therefore they MUST comply with ALL RTA laws as do drivers of other vehicles. Sad thing is though that I bet the majority of cyclists also drive motor vehicles. Really makes you wonder why they can't behave a little better especially when riding in groups.
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FollowupID: 568863

Reply By: Garbutt - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 18:08

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 18:08
Maybe I'm different but I just don't like w@nkers whether they are in trucks, 4wd's, cars or on bikes.

GB
AnswerID: 302737

Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 18:33

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 18:33
Well said.
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FollowupID: 568864

Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 22:27

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 22:27
Ditto !!

comment of the night by far.


I feel sorry for the truckie who had to do a sterling job to pull up behind them. Imagine that poor bugger if he had run over the top of a few dozen, life ruined by the action of one absolute idiot.

As an ex Pro/am cyclist who's grandfather raced with Oppy I won't enter some of the poor discussion on here.

Must be a van thing...I know 2 physios who are missing a lot of time off work because another idiot in a van sideswiped them while they were riding in the middle of a dedicated bike lane. The spineless mongrel swore black and blue that they were on the "road" in his lane. Pity about a dozen decent drivers saw him swerving all over the road and enter their lane and hit them. Probably on the phone eating a pie and having a smoke.

I suppose if you are training to compete in a polluted atmosphere with drivers lacking road craft then Sydneys the place :-) only joking.....
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FollowupID: 568919

Reply By: The Geriatric Gypsies - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 19:01

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 19:01
dont know the road myself but it looked pretty much like a freeway lane on tv should the bikes have even been there ??? and be interesting to know if they were being "good" cylists and only riding 2 abreast or like most of the morons and riding anthing up to 5 abreast

steve

ps we ride bikes have a 4b and tow a van
AnswerID: 302747

Follow Up By: The Landy - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 07:55

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 07:55
Riight, so if they were doing the wrong thing lets just take the law into our own ands and run them over?
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FollowupID: 568951

Follow Up By: The Landy - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 07:57

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 07:57
BTW, not having a go at you directly but no matter what these cyclists werre doing surely the actions of this driver where totally unacceptable by any definition.
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FollowupID: 568953

Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 09:05

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 09:05
Landy – you just hit the nail on the head. This is exact climax of whole discussion. Bikes MAY do it wrong because they do not risk any lives, but theirs. While drivers MUST do it right because they may risk life of some morons. Sounds quite an@l isn’t it? Though fully agree that driver’s behavior in this situation was absolutely disgusting.

Cheers
Serg
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FollowupID: 568971

Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 20:37

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 20:37
Gday,
Nothing to do with the original post, but it is to do with cyclists and it was bloody hilarios so Ill tell you any way.
A mate and I were going to work one morning with 3 rolls of sisolation on the roof racks. One must have been a fraction smaller diameter than the other.....
We were crusing along at about 120-130km ish when we come across a group of cyclists doing there morning training. The problem was they riding 3-4 wide on an undulating road so slowing and trying to pass was more dangerous than just scooting past.
Anyway...they gave me the bleep s so (for there own safety), I didnt give them a lot of room.
As we went past I could see them in the rear veiw mirror heading bush....Laugh..I nearly shat!!!!
When I got to work I noticed one roll of sisolation had slid out under the roof rack and was hanging out of the side of the car by about 2 feet.
They would have had the equivilant to a lump of steel wizzing about 3 inches above there heads at 120-130 kph.
Yes....it would have been my fault.....ABSOLUTELY!!!

But the moral to the story is........
I would have survived....they could have died!
Where and how they were riding was bloody stupid..........
I also ride a bike, and my theory is....treat everyone on the road like they are out to kill you and they are all bloody idiots.

Cheers
AnswerID: 302767

Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 07:49

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 07:49
LMAO....LMAO....LMAO....LMAO....LMAO....LMAO....LMAO....LMAO....LMAO....LMAO....LMAO....LMAO....LMAO....LMAO....LMAO....LMAO
still going strong with 836,179 K's

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

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FollowupID: 568948

Follow Up By: The Landy - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 07:59

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 07:59
You post sums it up! Cruising along at 130ks you decide to take the moral high ground?
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FollowupID: 568955

Follow Up By: Rossco td105 - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 10:28

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 10:28
Not to mention the load on your roof racks wasn't secured properly, wonder if it would have been quite as funny going through the windscreen of the innocent driver behind you?

Your last sentence sums it up...
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FollowupID: 568987

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 17:02

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 17:02
Landy,
Whats this moral high ground snot? Something wrong with doing 130kmh in a now 130km zone/then no speed limit?

Rosco O holy one,
I did say my mistake...After carrying hundreds of rolls the same way and never found one that could fit under my roof rack I didnt see the need to measure them all individually....Obviously I should have! But I didnt!
As for going through someones windscreen...Well it didnt and if it did , NO of course it wouldnt be funny you peanut.

Yes I failed! But at least Ill admit Im not perfect..In fact just between you me and the rest of the planet...It probably wasnt my first mistake and sure as $hiit wont be my last!
Never made a mistake before???

Just had to be there I supose...LOL
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FollowupID: 569052

Follow Up By: Rossco td105 - Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 01:10

Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 01:10
G'day Hairy,

Believe me, not so holy!

I have made mistakes before, like you (I assume) I try and learn from them.

Just wanted to make the point that it might not have been so bloody hilarious.

I hope that I am never in a position to have to apologies to some ones family because I "accidentally' killed their dad/mum/son etc.

I am always happy to stand corrected when wrong.

Regards,

Ross.
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FollowupID: 569136

Reply By: Crackles - Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 20:43

Thursday, May 08, 2008 at 20:43
The lack of tolerance & empathy by many above is unbelievable! This incident would be no different from a semi trailer tailgating a 4x4, overtaking it then slamming his brakes on forcing him to run up the rear. It is irrelevant what the 4 wheel driver may have done or what other drivers have done in the past, it's simply a criminal act.
Make the idiot pay for the damage then lock him up to think about it for a few years.
Cheers Craig.........
AnswerID: 302770

Reply By: Ray - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 09:06

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 09:06
I have lived in Australia for 45yrs now and am appalled at the way YOUNG cyclist treat our roads. They do not obey the road rules and quite often do not know if they are cyclists or pedestrians. They quite often get off their bikes at traffic lights and walk them across against a red light and remount on the other side. Another thing that they do is not stop at stop signs, although a number of car drivers do the same and I have yet to hear of a cyclist being booked for these offences.
As far as I know there is no training program for young cyclists or the checking of bicycles for road worthiness and in a lot of cases the bikes are too small for the rider and most do not have adequate lights or no lights at all, bells or mudguards ( mudguards are essential in preventing stones being thrown up)
If there are any rules regarding cyclists and their bicycles they are not being enforced by Mr. Plod.
AnswerID: 302834

Reply By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 11:44

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 11:44
One situation in which I find that cyclists are very dangerous is on rural roads. Around here there are many narrow, windy roads frequented by cyclists doing very low speeds. Coming around a blind corner at the posted limit to find a couple of treadlies in front of you and vehicles coming the other way preventing you from overtaking can be scary.

If you broke down around a bend, due to the danger you would be quick to get your car off the road or send someone back to signal to other cars to slow down. Roadworks - warning signs before the bend. If a cow wandered on to the road, well, it's too stupid to know the danger it is in. Cyclists?
AnswerID: 302856

Follow Up By: Patrolman Pat - Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 18:39

Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 18:39
Should you be driving around a blind corner at the posted speed limit anyway? Would it not be safer to drive at a speed that allows you to stop safely within the distance that you can see. That is how I was taught to drive.
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FollowupID: 569247

Reply By: D-Jack - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 14:26

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 14:26
Just read this thread quickly after not having spent much time on EO for quite a while. Only because flicking through the topic titles I was drawn to it because I am a regular cyclist and a Bicycle Patrol Police Officer. Would like to thank those of you posting ignorant and arrogant camel faeces in this thread for remind me why I choose not to frequent here any more. Goodbye
AnswerID: 302888

Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 18:04

Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 18:04
Bye
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FollowupID: 569239

Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 18:07

Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 18:07
Oh... and can ya take Serg with ya??? after all he started this chit, he seems to be pretty good at it lately!!
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FollowupID: 569241

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 18:42

Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 18:42
So much for your chance to educate them with your experience and help others......

A "good" Bike Officer would have a better temprament and would try and correct any misunderstandings with the non-riders.

Disappointing that you chose to take the easy way out.

Andrew
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FollowupID: 569248

Follow Up By: feral - Sunday, May 11, 2008 at 00:35

Sunday, May 11, 2008 at 00:35
Why should he when he'll be dealing with arrogant morons like you?

It's good to see that you have contributed to this utter nonsense as well.

The arrogant "non-riders" as you put it should show more control and respect to other road users. I couldn't care less if they were bikes, buses, trucks, pedestrians or cars, your responsibility to others and yourself is to keep it as safe as possible. Like, you have a brain and a licence...how about using it!

Isn't fantastic that a big 4w driver like yourself can be so gun ho on a cyclist. You're a legend!

It's no wonder that I do not ride any more with the moronic behaviour displayed by supposedly human beings.

Finally, no wonder we have an image problem with the general public when you all display such arrogant and blatant ignorance.

Maybe we don't deserve to have our 4wd's.



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FollowupID: 569299

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Sunday, May 11, 2008 at 10:02

Sunday, May 11, 2008 at 10:02
Feral by name, feral by nature...LOL

Now that you have shot off your misinformed mouth and made yourself look like a fool, i will tell you that i ride a bike and actually support the notion that we should have more bike paths and safe areas to reduce/safeguard the traffic in larger cities.

I stand by my statement, as a rider, and hoped that the poster could have conributed to the education of those who don't ride, much like the good 4wders in the community educate those who don't understand some of the benefits of them.....becoming an advocate of the community rather than blasting others for their choices.

Let me see now Feral......hmmm, that really sounds like someone who an "arrogant moron", "non-rider", "blatant ignorance" ?? i think not.

As said before, education is the key to all our activities, and whilst their will be the minority in the group that do injustice for the rest of the community, we need to move on and accept this fact.

Thanks for your mistake Feral, and i hope you think about what you are saying before shooting off a posting after Midnight.

Andrew
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FollowupID: 569328

Reply By: RalfR - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 22:04

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 22:04
I ride a bike and drive a 4WD.

As a rider, I understand that I have a soft shell and cars have a hard shell. When they meet, the soft shell usually breaks first. I ride though peak hour traffic, and I mostly get to the city faster than the buses and cars, not beacuase i'm doing anything stupid, illegal or dangerous, it just that I have the benfit of a bike lane.

When I need to get out of the bike lane, I always make eye contact with the driver behind me. 99% percent of drivers will give me the space I need and I give a wave in recognition. I don't see them again because thay are being held up by other drivers. The point I'm making is that sometime a little cooperation is required. I don't notice anyone getting upset or frustrated.

As a 4WD driver, I see many frustrated drivers in my rear vision mirror. My height and width create a visual barrier to the vehcile behind be which forces them (hopefully) to increase the distance between thier car and mine, Many will move to another llane just to avoid the problem.

I think I'm more of an impediment on the road as a driver than as a cyclist, althoug reading the posts, I'm sure there would be disagreement on that.

And remember that we could all be riding bikes soon :). I think it's not far away that we will see dedicated bike lanes on major arterials leading into cities, much like existing bus lanes, i.e. no cars allowed. I hope it happens soon, and I'd be happy for it to be a tollway to pay for the costs.

Just my two bob's worth.

AnswerID: 302970

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, May 09, 2008 at 22:48

Friday, May 09, 2008 at 22:48
I ride a bike to work - no costs, no parking hassles, and I can stay vaguely fit without going to the gym. I'm also lucky to be able to ride linear park to work.

But you won't catch me riding my bike on busy roads - too much chance of getting killed. Bike Lanes are bad - parked cars open doors, turning cars cut you off or pull out in front of you.

Need to separate bikes from cars - they are not compatible. Need more dedicated bike tracks.

Adelaide could be improved by scrapping the ridiculous trains and replacing them with a 2-way bike tracks and more O-Bahns.

Bikes already outsell cars in Australia - this situation isn't going to get better - especially with rising fuel prices.

AnswerID: 302980

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 20:04

Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 20:04
O bahns - now theres an idea which didnt take off.
Had a go on it last time I was back.
Do people still try and drive down it?
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FollowupID: 569259

Follow Up By: RalfR - Sunday, May 11, 2008 at 06:46

Sunday, May 11, 2008 at 06:46
Didn't take off, however, in my opinion a great transport system for a city. Quiet, fast and with versatility, the vehicle being driven around suburban streets.

The last person to drive along the track was an Irish tourist who was a little "tired and emotional". Incidentally, he voided the insurance on the hire car whihc he driving, after it became wedged in the middle of the track.

He ended up in court on drink driving charges i think.

Just my two bobs worth.
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FollowupID: 569307

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