HID Upgrades

Submitted: Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 12:20
ThreadID: 57696 Views:4356 Replies:13 FollowUps:8
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Has anyone out there upgraded there headlights to HID. Thinking of doing it to my Cruiser Trayback. What is the best 6000,8000 etc. I heard that anything over 6000 is pretty crap and just for looks. Any tips on which kit to use, i see there are alot of kits on Ebay but they seem far too cheap, get them from $40 on there. Surely they wouldnt be too great. Thinking of upgrading the headlights to reflective lenses like the new cars use with H4 globes so thought why not go HID while im at it. I shouldnt have to modify my wiring as it will be drawing less current, Correct?
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Reply By: Member - John - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 12:46

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 12:46
tukka, have done them on my GU ute, had to remove them as they are way too bright and gleary for headlight use, low beam that is. Loved them, but too bright for general on road use.
John and Jan

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AnswerID: 304318

Reply By: Member - 120scruiser (NSW) - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 16:14

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 16:14
Hi Tukka
I have been considering it as well. If I was to do it I would purchase on ebay from china or hong kong as if it is crap you have only thrown away 40 bucks or so but if you were to purchase out here and spend 400 odd dollars, that would be a waste.
I always keep in mind that all the products out here come from over seas anyway with a considerable mark up. For 40 bucks or so it would be worth a try.
I would go the 5000 or 6000. The numbers are the colours. One seller on ebay from Hong Kong has a good description of the colours etc.
AnswerID: 304336

Reply By: Member - Steve M (SA) - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 17:03

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 17:03
Have a look at this site HIDRUS

No affiliation etc ..

Have not used them but researching an upgrade to the 100 headlights.

AnswerID: 304343

Reply By: Bushtrek - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 17:32

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 17:32
Have a look at Thread 33964. May 2006

Australian ADR's require the fitment of self levelling and washer systems for these lights. The washer systems are there to remove dirt so that the refracted light does not create a glare hazard.
AnswerID: 304346

Follow Up By: Boobook2 - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 18:18

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 18:18
Bushtrek,

There is NO ADR requiring Autoleveling or washing systems, this is an urban myth. This is a requirement in the UK so most OEMs have it but not here.

There are 2 ADR's covering HID

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FollowupID: 570451

Follow Up By: Boobook2 - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 18:33

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 18:33
Sorry Pressed the wrong button.

There is NO ADR requiring Autoleveling or washing systems, this is an urban myth. This is a requirement in the UK and most of europe so most OEMs have it but not a law here.

There are 2 ADR's covering HID

They are here

ADR Gas Discharge Light Sources

and

ADR Gas Discharge Headlights


They mention optics, light formation and matching and reflection areas etc. Very complex documents that a country cop would not understand unless he has a double degree in Quantum Physics and Advanced Optics.

They do not mention Autoleveling or Washers at all. Upgrades will be illegal if they don't meet the above ADR specs.

If you do get HID replacements, make sure they have a clean cut off, then you won't dazzle oncoming cars if they are aimed correctly.

If you want the brightest get 4300K, 6000K are 20% less bright but bluer. Anything above 6000k is purely for show and not very bright.

It is hard to get good cut off for H4 or H3.
One good good supplier is
http://www.hidtechnologies.com.au/

I have absolutley no affiliatiation other than as a happy customer who has very bright headlights and who has never been flashed in the last 2 years.


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FollowupID: 570455

Follow Up By: Bushtrek - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 21:50

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 21:50
Thanks for raising the ADR issue again Boobook2.
I do agree this is an area with a large amount of information to plough through to find what is necessary.
You attached 2 ADR docs. ADR 77/00 &78/00.
Both these rule sets refer to Design, Testing and Application of Gas discharge devices to automobiles.
The fitment requirements and the operation of the vehicles are referenced in these ADR's at para 2.1 and reference ADR 13/00.
The current revision of ADR13/00 is ADR 13/00 Compilation 2 (August 2007).

To save you going through this lengthy document suggest you refer to Appendix A subparagraph 6.2.6 and 6.2.9.
Now, you can search this document and you will not find reference to HID but will find Gas discharge lamps are defined.

The other information that will help understand the documents' intention in respect to Gas Discharge lamps, is the light output characteristics of these devices, as well an understanding of the change in vehicle orientation particularly its front to rear or "pitch" movement with respect to varying loads.
Currently designed automotive Gas Discharge lamps have a luminous intensity of generally 3,000 to 4,000 lumens, certainly above 2,000 which is within the upper end of Halogen luminence.

Vehicles particularly longer wheel base vehicles have a pitch co-efficient above the allowable Alpha range of 25% (15% up to 10% down), this means they dip at the rear when fully loaded unless significant suspension modification is present and in any case the manufacturer's specification is included in the calculation which effectively means you cannot achieve compliance with respect to vertical orientation with assistance systems.

Now armed with his information we can interpret the ADR.
Leveling devices are referenced at 6.2.6 in detail, both automatic and manual (which incidentally have to be capable of operation from inside the cabin).
At para 6.2.9 the nub of the issue is described, and the second sentence is quite deliberate. Manual leveling systems are not permitted.

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FollowupID: 570482

Reply By: Peter 2 - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 19:11

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 19:11
I've fitted the H4 Hi/Lo 4300 kit from Australian Ebay seller "95soarer" to good quality Hella 7" H4 light inserts, unbelievable light with good cutoff and haven't been flashed by oncoming vehicles either.
I did adjust the headlights slightly lower when I fitted them to avoid dazzling oncoming vehicles. The kit came with full wiring harness, fuses and dip relay and just connected to one headlight socket and battery power, basically plug and play.
It made the Cibie Oscars with 100w globes redundant.
For interests sake I fitted another set of HID 4300 globes to the Cibies later and I can't physically see as far as the light they throw down the road.
The above seller is based in Melbourne and has good prompt shipping and good comms, recommended. From memory the H4 Hi/Lo 4300 kit was around $130 and the set for the Cibies about $80.
I also bought a set of the prism cut reflector H4 headlights from another seller but they were junk and didn't work as well as the Hella inserts.
AnswerID: 304360

Follow Up By: tukka - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 19:44

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 19:44
Yeah thats the same person i am thinking of buying off. What modifications are needed to fit them to spotlights, as i have a pair of Lightforce 240 and Hella 4000, wouldnt mind getting abit more out of them to really light up the road. Where the reflective type lenses really crap cause i cant seem to find the Hella 7'' headlights anywhere. My headlights are old and yellow so really liked the look of them shiny reflective ones.
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FollowupID: 570468

Follow Up By: Peter 2 - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 20:30

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 20:30
The Hella inserts are available at the better (more expensive ;-)) auto parts places. You may have to get them to order them in.
To fit them to the Cibies I had to enlarge the hole where the wiring entered the back of the light and fit the grommet supplied with the wiring harness. On the Humvee I mounted the ballasts on the inside of the front bumper.
I forgot to add to my earlier post that the other great advantage about HID's is the much lower power requirements.
As mine are all 35w units and are operating on 24v each light is only pulling about 1.5 amps which means that total high beam current is on the order of 6 amps. Would of been about 8 just for the driving lights before.
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FollowupID: 570473

Reply By: autosparky - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 19:22

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 19:22
at present it is illegal to fit hid conversions , unless it is for off road use only, spotlights are ok for the moment. all these conversions are allowed for sale , but there is a disclaimer that they are for off road use only. its in very small writing
AnswerID: 304362

Follow Up By: Boobook2 - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 21:24

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 21:24
The headlights should go nicely with the

Larger tyres,
Incorrect speed rating on the tyres
2"lift
GVM with everything loaded
Gas bottle in the back
removed rear seats
Driving lights on the roof
ECU chip
modified exhaust
tuned up fuel
Turbo timer
Jerry cans filled with fuel on the back
winch hook protruding in front of the bar
Use of UHF while driving
etc
as legality goes.
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FollowupID: 570479

Reply By: udm - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 20:20

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 20:20
i have used 6000k for a pair of spotties, and they still are a little to blue-ish for my taste, in the future i would use nothing over 5000k.
AnswerID: 304370

Reply By: udm - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 20:23

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 20:23
also i forgot, the kits on ebay are not plug and play, some mods are needed on spotties
AnswerID: 304373

Reply By: tukka - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 22:12

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 22:12
Yeah i decided to go with the 6000 and probably ring around on Monday for the Hella inserts. Thinking of getting the 4300 set for my spotlights, even if i just get one kit for the Lightforce it should be well and truly enough light which will make night driving much more enjoyable. Have heard it takes about an hour to set each light up with the spotlights, thats not much really. Better then paying $700 bucks or whatever for a cheap pair of HID spotties.
AnswerID: 304399

Reply By: Dave B (NSW) - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 23:30

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 23:30
Let's hope Skippy doesn't come too close to study your new lights.

Dave
'Wouldn't be dead for quids'

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AnswerID: 304409

Reply By: autosparky - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 23:34

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 23:34
boobook2 i look after injured raptors as well there is a difference in driving into a light that will sear the retina than driving with an oversize tyre . there is no adr approval for low beam or high beam with hid lighting and legislation is being considered wiyh the use of hid in spotlights and may well be limited to mining application only!
AnswerID: 304410

Follow Up By: autosparky - Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 23:39

Saturday, May 17, 2008 at 23:39
if you are looking for decent adr approved lighting look at xenon lighting systems that are factory on BMW AUDI and Range Rover,those lighting components are freely available on the market and can be applied
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FollowupID: 570488

Reply By: mechpete - Sunday, May 18, 2008 at 16:24

Sunday, May 18, 2008 at 16:24
have a friend who just fit them ,he,s right into the technical side of things ,an says the 4300 are the best as they are still regarded as white light whereas the bigger no ones are not very good in the wet conditions and they lose some intensity as they are a blue/purple light .
mechpete
AnswerID: 304494

Follow Up By: Skippy In The GU - Sunday, May 18, 2008 at 18:50

Sunday, May 18, 2008 at 18:50
I think my 6000k are great in wet weather and foggy conditions, they are also better on the eye in long distance night driving
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FollowupID: 570585

Reply By: geocacher (djcache) - Monday, May 19, 2008 at 00:01

Monday, May 19, 2008 at 00:01
Has anyone upgraded a set of IPF lights and can recommend a kit?

Also, are there any HF interference issues for those that run HF radios?

Dave
AnswerID: 304616

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