Average life expectancy of LSD's in Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi 4x4's.
Submitted: Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 21:25
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Bros 1
G'day,
Was wondering what the life expectancy of LSD's was. Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi etc.
Cheers,
Bros.
Reply By: madfisher - Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 21:40
Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 21:40
The lsd in my old Jack worked
well up to about 150000ks. The lsd in my old 4runner was almost non existant. Wifes Paj still seems to work ok at 90000ks. Interesting question.
Cheers Pete
AnswerID:
307611
Reply By: Eric Experience - Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 21:43
Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 21:43
Bros
Toyota is short. about 50K. Nissan is longer.About 100K. Mitsubishi is about 200 k on early models, later ones with the Dakar gear diff last the life of the vehicle. Eric.
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Reply By: Splits - Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 22:03
Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 22:03
That is a very difficult thing to put a figure on. LSDs are a bit like clutches, they only wear when you change gears so a city car is not going to last as long as a country one.
My current car had 40,000 ks on it when I bought it. It was ex Navy and looked like it had never been off road so I doubt if its LSD had ever been called on to do anything until I got it. I have put another 20,000 on it with only about 1500 in areas where it might have done some work.
It is currently working like new but had I bought the car new and lived in the Victorian mountains for example, I would have had it out on High Country tracks as often as possible and it may
well be worn out by now.
It all depends on how and where you use it.
Brian
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Reply By: Member - John F (NSW) - Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 22:18
Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 22:18
Bros 1
Interesting question. I may be way off here, but not sure where Splits is coming from... I would not have thought it had anything to do with gear changes. I understood that a LSD locks the axles together using spring pressure unless compelled by enough differential torque from each axle to make them turn at different rates.
Therefore it is lots of corners on blacktop which gradually kills them; driving on loose surfaces allows them to lock the axles, hence
the springs and friction plates are not wearing.
Happy to stand corrected from any of the legion gurus here, though...
Regards,
John.
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Follow Up By: Splits - Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 23:24
Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 23:24
John, I was just using clutches as an example. They don't wear until you use them and the same applies to LSDs. Where and how you drive determines how much use they get.
I have not paid any attention to LSDs for years until I bought this car. From memory the diff is just an open one until one wheel starts to loose traction then the LSD starts applying torque to the other one. This can happen during hard cornering on the blacktop and very easily on loose surfaces in the bush. It is when that torque is being applied that it is slipping and wearing. They don't completely lock the axles which is why they are called "limited".
My Toyota has done about 95% of its 60,000 ks on the blacktop and many people say its LSD should be worn out at 50,000. It is far from it and it will easily spin both rear wheels if I come up against a difficult section of track that I can't get through.
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Follow Up By: Member - John F (NSW) - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 08:14
Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 08:14
Splits
Don't want to hijack the thread, but I stand by my observation that the LSD - at least the one in my current model Hilux - locks the axles unless forced to do otherwise by a pre set amount of torque difference. You can observe this effect - just do a slow, tight turn in first gear on gravel, the inside wheel will be clawing away at the loose surface. Do the same turn on bitumen and both back wheels grip the surface because the friction between the rubber and road overcomes the built in (ie the limited slip) slip of the diff.
There are, however, many kinds of LSDs. Given the Toyota penchant for simplicity I would guess that mine is at the simple end of the scale. Check out that venerable reference Wikipedia. The current article on LSDs describes many types. One type applies more locking torque as the drive torque increases; another type increases the locking effect as the axles' velocity differences increase.
Back to Bros1's original question - depends. Check out the variety of responses so far - different drivers, different diffs.
Regards,
John.
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Follow Up By: Splits - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 16:11
Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 16:11
John
I have just been going through a workshop manual and trying to figure out exactly how much torque is being distributed at what time is not easy. The book says, "The partial locking action resulting from the friction plates and discs is automatically increased by the inherent separating forces between the side gears and the pinion gears which progressively increases the resistance as the torque increases".
It says a "partial locking" not a complete one. The link below also says they do not fully lock. This is why car manufacturers fit them instead of auto lockers. If they locked you would have no end of drivers getting themselves into trouble, particularly on wet roads.
The friction plates may partially slip all the time which would cause some wear but I am not sure. The book is non genuine and not that specific and I have not studied them since TAFE in the early 1960s. It has brought back a lot of memories though and they look very easy to overhaul.
I still believe the amount of wear depends on where and how the car is driven. Bros 1 asked how long they should last and I don't believe you can put a positive figure on that. Bush driving should give them plenty of work and wear but they should get a much easier time in cities or on most sealed roads.
Site Link
Brian
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Follow Up By: madfisher - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 17:55
Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 17:55
I have head rounda bouts wear lsds out and tyres.
Cheers Pete
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Reply By: ExplorOz Team - Kerry W (QLD) - Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 22:23
Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 22:23
2 patrols
GQ 240,000 klm
GU 195,000 klm
LSDs still fine, - running Penrite Limslip 140
cheers
Kerry W
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Reply By: Dunaruna - Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 22:33
Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 22:33
62 series sahara, genuine rear LSD, 320,000km - no problems (changed diff oils every 50,000km).
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Reply By: DCTriton - Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 23:47
Tuesday, Jun 03, 2008 at 23:47
'03 Mitsubishi triton V6, 160,000km and quite a bit of off-road, still nice and tight.
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Reply By: Willem - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 08:27
Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 08:27
G'day Bros
1994 Nissan Patrol RX 4.2D = 360,000km so far and running sweetly
Regards
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Reply By: Mudripper - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 11:12
Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 11:12
One of my 4x4's is a 1985 Pajero with 288K on the clock. It can easily spin both rear wheels in a difficult spot, so it still seems tight.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Stephen M (NSW) - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 13:48
Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 13:48
Toyota prado and I wouldn't have a bloody clue how the lsd is behaving. LOL My wife jumped on it at the lights the other day (wet) heard it squeal for a second then she took off mmmm stuffed if I know. I believe the Nissans have the best lsd in the business. Regards Steve M
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Reply By: Bros 1 - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 16:55
Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 16:55
Greetings all,
Thanks for the replies lads. The question arose at work as i had to replace my normal rear diff.
Blew my normal rear diff 2 years ago and i replaced it with a second hand LSD in
Cooktown. Search me if it works or not. I suppose i will have to do the test as outlined elsewhere on this site to see if it is still operating as an LSD.
Cheers
Bros.
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Reply By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 17:21
Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 17:21
The
Heritage listed Paj is at 385,000 and the LSD is still doing it's stuff.
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Reply By: Bros 1 - Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 20:12
Wednesday, Jun 04, 2008 at 20:12
PPete,
Thanks for your input.
Cheers,
Bros.
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