Hi and dumb newbie question :-)

Submitted: Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 20:34
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Hi I am new here and this is my first post so go easy on me OK :-)

We are looking at downsizing our home and hitting the road for a few years. I like the look of the Toyota hilux 4x4 3lt turbo diesel.

It has a towing weight or 2250kg and one of the vans we are looking at is a Jayco base station with a tare or 2160kg

Is this going to be to heavy ?

Should we look for a bigger tow vehicle or smaller lighter van ?

My wife loves the look of the new V8 desiel landcruiser but that does not come in a twin cab or extra cab :-(

I am a photographer so want somewhere to store cameras while traveling.

Some of what I laughingly call work is at www.silverimagephotos.com.au

cheers doug
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Reply By: Stephen M (NSW) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 20:46

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 20:46
By the time you fill the water tank in the van alone you will be over the legal weight. The hilux might be capable but you would be working it hard. Either bigger vehicle or smaller van. What about the new troopie ?? Plenty of room in the back and plenty of power. I think any thing in the range of hilux,navara,triton would not be suitable for the van you have described. All capable of pulling the weight but as said will be working its but off doing it. Just my opinion. Regards Steve M
AnswerID: 308209

Reply By: Member - Michael J (SA) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 20:54

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 20:54
Doug,

"Some of what I laughingly call work is at www.silverimagephotos.com.au "


Beware, advertising could cost you the same as our other Doug........


Cheers
Michael

PS, I do not have a problem with it..

AnswerID: 308213

Reply By: donk - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 20:54

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 20:54
You need to reconsider the vehicle or the van as the van is to heavy for the vehicle

The rule of thumb is a single axle van has a carrying capacity of approx 300kg & a tandem approx 400kg

The tare weight of a van is the unladen weight so the van loaded will exceed the towing capacity of the hilux

Also most vans are overweight when loaded to travel & the bigger the van the more room there is to overload it

The best towing package is a big,powerful tow vehicle with a small van so if youm have still have to purchase both i would find a suitable van & than purchase a tow vehicle to suit

If you alreadyhave the vehicle you have to find the van to suit

I assume you realise that jayco vans are suitable for mostly sealed roads with the occasional bit of good dirt

Good luck

Regards Don
AnswerID: 308214

Reply By: Member - SNAKE QLD - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:01

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:01
Hi Doug,
Best advice I can give is check out every c/park you can and ask anyone who looks like they are on the move as many questions about their rigs.As it is the Grey Nomad swarming season there will be plenty on the road and most will be only too happy to show you their setups.We did this before we bought our camper and not only gained a wealth of information but also met some wonderful people.Best of luck. Snake and Josie
AnswerID: 308218

Reply By: donk - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:08

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:08
I just had a look on the jayco website at the specs & i assume you are looking at a 20 footer

It has a carrying capacity of 600 kg & a approx ball weight of 275kg so if you use all of the available capacity you are going to have a fairly heavy van & you should be looking at a tow vehicloe with a towing capacity of approx 3000 kg & a allowable ball weight of 300 kg

Be careful as some vehicles need to have the allowable ball weight reduced as weight is added to the rear of the vehicle to stay within manufacturers specs

Out of all the jap duel cabs the nissan navara in theory may have the towing capacity (though watch the allowable ball weight) to tow it but it is getting close to the upper limits

Regards Don
AnswerID: 308222

Reply By: Member - sdr00y (Beecroft) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:28

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:28
D200Dug,

The new v8 does come in an extra cab / twin cab, it's called a troopie. It comes in various configurations, 3 seat with loads of space in the back, 6 seat with a fold able forwards facing rear seat when folded up (if you don't need the seating capacity all the time) still has heaps of space in the rear, or an 11 seat. This vehicle will do more than what you want and tow the van.

sdr00y

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Reply By: D200Dug- Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:31

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:31
Many thanks for the advice

Sorry I did not mean to advertise just introduce myself.

We are just starting out on this so appreciate all the advice I am sure I will ask more dumb questions in future ;-)


cheers doug
AnswerID: 308229

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:49

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:49
What none of the posts have said is that its the ATM of the van you should look at.
That is the all up loaded weight that you should stick to to be legal.
Its on a plate in the vans boot usually.

Dont let an eager salesman say " just dont fill the water tanks and you"ll be ok"

It isnt.

If the vans ATM exceeds the tow vehicles legal towing capacity it is illegal to tow even if its unloaded.

I got caught by buying the vehicle and then liked and bought a van that was too heavy and ended up parting with another $23,000 to get a tow vehiucle to suit.
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Follow Up By: madfisher - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:51

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:51
Doug I have to go to bed soon to get some sleep, but you have cracked me up so much that is no longer possible.Cheers you old bugger Pete
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Reply By: D200Dug- Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:32

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:32
PS I am a toyota tragic so not keen to consider the Nissan option :-)
AnswerID: 308230

Reply By: Kiwi & "Mahindra" - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:49

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:49
If wanting that type of vehicle, I would go a d22 navara which has a towing rate of 3000kg, the fuel economy is brilliant 10lt/100km upto 14lt/100km (towing).....Its a turbo diesel and a 3lt....(we have the 06 model)

Laura
AnswerID: 308233

Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 22:25

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 22:25
"Its a turbo diesel and a 3lt....(we have the 06 model)"

Sorry about that Laura HEHEHEHE

Kev's stirring must be rubbing off LOL
See you at the "Dig" tree
Trevor.
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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 23:50

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 23:50
Just looking at the Nissan site and they only show a 2.5 lt diesel.

Does that produce more power than the toyota 3 lt ?

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Follow Up By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 06:18

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 06:18
Love ya work.

King Toad

Cheers Sir Kev
Russell Coight:
He was presented with a difficult decision: push on into the stretching deserts, or return home to his wife.

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Follow Up By: Kiwi & "Mahindra" - Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 16:10

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 16:10
Watch it Trev or your on the hit list next to Kev!!LOL!!
and D200Dug.....have no idea about the 2.5lt compared to the 3.0 but when it comes to diesels and turbos, the only 4wd I have had that isnt a worry with the power issue is the 91 pajero. Its a 2.4lt turbo diesel.

I wouldnt buy the 2.5 (the brand spanka) but would get the 3.0lt....they continually prove how good they are....Daza and Bucky are on here who also own them......

and Kev.....god love ya cos I sure as hell dont!!LOL!!
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Reply By: motor_head - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:55

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 21:55
Hi Doug, sounds like good advice from the other guy's, dont take my comments as advice but as an opinion, a 3lt hilux just doesnt cut it for long term towing of that sort of wieght, to me the landcruiser would make minimum weight for the tow vehicle, considering you plan to spend a few years living in the van i presume you want it to be reasonably comfortable so maybe a heavier tow vehicle will suit you better, another question to ask yourself is will you be happy towing such a heavy van and what sort of roads to you plan to tow it, i drive a petrol prado and tow a 880kg coromal offroad camper (bought it for the convienience and compfort) and to be honest i dont enjoy towing it, am thinking about going back to a tent trailer type, much easier to tow.
AnswerID: 308236

Reply By: Member - Paul M (WA) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 22:18

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 22:18
Doug

You might also have warranty issues if you tow a caravan over the rated tow weight of the car.
AnswerID: 308244

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 19:21

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 19:21
Never mind warranyt issues You will have no insurance period.
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Reply By: Shaker - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 23:31

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 23:31
Is it just me ... or is there suddenly a plethora of "dugs"?
AnswerID: 308258

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 23:42

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 23:42
I am the rare ( and slightly insane ) D200 version :-)
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 23:43

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 23:43
Hmmm ......
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Follow Up By: Member - barry F (NSW) - Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 08:48

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 08:48
Me to!! I have heard of a "duck" season but never ever a "dug" season. LOL
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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 10:48

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 10:48
JUST DON"T SHOOT AT US OK !
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 19:23

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 19:23
Have you got a D200 or is it just a name Ifyou have we may talk about them
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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 19:41

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 19:41
MMMMM Graham I have 2 D200s at the moment.

I am trying to convince the minister of finance that I need a D300 but will hold off untill the D10 is released ;-)
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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 19:46

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 19:46
Oh more than happy to talk cameras and photography.

it is something I do know a little about.

My email is silverimage(at)powerup.com.au
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Reply By: kiwicol - Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 00:59

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 00:59
Hi Dug, with the van you are talking about you really need something bigger than a 4 cyninder, just look at all the posts of people trying to get more from their 4bangers by fitting chips to the computers, and the people asking is it normal to slip the cltch to get moving while towing a van, the 75 cruser with the v8 could be good for you, but it doesnt have dual fuel tanks and no air bags, lot of money just for the new v8, another option could be a 80 series converted into a dualcab with a tray on the back, patrols converted with the 4.2 are just as good but both would be second hand. Some people will disagree but towing a big van for long distance for long time you need a big 6 diesel. try hireing different tow vehicles, and dont listen to what the vehicle salesman is telling you, he probibly has never done what you are about to do. I have a 92 GQ 4.2 Diesal with a super charger on top, i tow a track shack camper trailer, and do trips from 6 mths to a year. I get fuel figures the same as the latest computor controlled 4x4s valued at 50 to 60plus thousand $ and i have all the same creature comforts, and its my opion that you need a big 6 diesal for what you want to do. Col
AnswerID: 308276

Reply By: Member - Jason - Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 07:04

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 07:04
Hi D200dug,
Just wanted to let you know that there is never a dumb question to be asked. If you don't know then there is someone on this forum that will.
Cheers
Jason
AnswerID: 308279

Reply By: _gmd_pps - Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 20:03

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 20:03
finally someone with sense for quality and some talent unlike most (all) of the other so called pro photographers here.

Ha the bigger better larger spiral is on ... :)) ...
I take a lot of photogear when I travel and have it in the vehicle (crew cab) because I can take it with me all the time. Would not leave it in a trailer. What do you use the base station for ? bikes ?
quads ? or a large format printer :)) ???

whatever you do leave some margin and think if you really need all the stuff you plan to pack.

Get a decent towvehicle which also allows you to travel with your required gear without the van. Becaise as a photographer you want to go remote places and still take your gear. There are people who do three axle conversions and make the vehicle longer to fit some large storage boxes and a 5th wheel hitch.
I would go with a small 5th wheeler .. it's safer to tow and you get higher load rating.

I went for a slide-on (reasonably large) because I still tow a boat (of course not through the desert :)) lol). I can take the vehicle alone with a bed tent and still have lots of gear in the double cabin.

It boils down to the luxury (or lack of) you want on the road.
first decide on your lifestyle while on the road. then decide where you mostly will go (or some may say the other way around - not for me thanks - I define my minimum lifestyle first) the make a provisional packing list and calculate weight. then you are ready for the van decision. after you decided for the van or whatever then decide on the vehicle - not the other way around.

good luck
gmd



AnswerID: 308398

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 20:59

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 20:59
I am NOT going to compare myself to anyone here :-)

I take an average of 2 good photos per year. The plan for the jayco was to put a pull out annex roof over the fold down back door add some insect screens and make a really nice large living/ work area in the back of the van.

We have done a few outback desert trips in tents with our little Toyota 4x2 ute we stick to roads and tracks and I don't really want to do the full 4WD thing in isolated areas alone. We just want something a bit more comfortable than the tent for longer trips or a few months at a time on the road.

We are not after 5 star but we are finding the tent just a bit cramped and close to the ground these days :-)
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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 21:02

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 21:02
I am also wondering how solid the jayco would be on dirt roads ?

A camper trailer would be the best option for towing but we would like a bit more comfort if we can get it without losing to much.

Everything is a compromise I guess.
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Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 21:47

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 21:47
well it is a very personal decision .. and yes everything is a compromise. I wanted the flexibility and still some comfort
so I went the slide-on route, still being able to tow and when
required set the slide-on down and just take the truck wherever
pleases me. I could not rule out a specific situation and so far we have done all and enjoy that we can.

The Jayco should be fine on gravel but I think the Hilux will struggle
when you load up the van.

You may have to get away from a ute type vehicle when you want more inside space unless you buy a US truck (Ford, GM, Dodge they all are around)

good luck
gmd


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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 22:00

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 22:00
Yep I am coming to that conclusion that the hilux will not do the job.

I need a large cabin to keep cameras handy and dust free.

We did not see a slide on that we really liked but may have to have another look at them.


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Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 22:13

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 22:13
I brought my slide-on in from the US; there wasn't anything here we liked. Really depends what you want and on your budget.
thats why I said to define your "luxury" first. You gotta set your minimum requirements firmly otherwise you run in circles. We did that exercise and my criteria was towing ability with some livingspace. The solution was pretty simple after we really defined what we wanted.
Originally my wife wanted a 5th wheeler but we both compromised
because we wanted to take the boat (we both are divers) and be independent. We are currently working on our next step (the live aboard catamaran) for 6-8 months and the rest we will travel on land with 4 weeks "holiday at home" :)) ...
When you have done the desert routes the Jayco and a LC or Patrol should be ok .. I personally would prefer a ML500 or such but thats just me .. your mileage may vary.

with a slide-on you qualify for a CMCA membership and have easy access to a large network including cheaper insurance. same with a 5th wheeler .. not so with a caravan ..

good luck
gmd



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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 22:32

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 22:32
ML500?

Pardon my ignorance ?

We gave up diving abut 20 years ago, we have a small 10ft plastic boat I would put on a set of roof racks.

Can you email me a photo of your rig some time please ?
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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 22:32

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 22:32
ML500?

Pardon my ignorance ?

We gave up diving abut 20 years ago, we have a small 10ft plastic boat I would put on a set of roof racks.

Can you email me a photo of your rig some time please ?
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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 22:33

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 22:33
ML500?

Pardon my ignorance ?

We gave up diving abut 20 years ago, we have a small 10ft plastic boat I would put on a set of roof racks.

Can you email me a photo of your rig some time please ?
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Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 22:47

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 22:47
ML500 is a Mercedes Benz MlL500

here is a pic before the combo got shipped 1.5 years ago from the US. I do not have a pic of the whole thing after it got converted.



have fun
gmd
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Reply By: Motherhen - Sunday, Jun 08, 2008 at 18:19

Sunday, Jun 08, 2008 at 18:19
Hi Doug

I looked through some of your 'nature' photos. What a fine paintbrush you have. Your paintbrush is your camera (are rather your eye and trigger finger). Some lovely work.

Motherhen
Motherhen

Red desert dreaming

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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Sunday, Jun 08, 2008 at 18:57

Sunday, Jun 08, 2008 at 18:57
Thank you :-)
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Reply By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Kath - Sunday, Jun 08, 2008 at 19:24

Sunday, Jun 08, 2008 at 19:24
Doug, there is a member on EO with a full size Troopy. The Base Station looks HUGE behind even it. With water, additional gear in the rear it will be quite a package to haul.
Cheers,
Who?
John

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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Sunday, Jun 08, 2008 at 19:36

Sunday, Jun 08, 2008 at 19:36
The rear section of the base station is empty and we would not be putting much in there ( hopefully) no heavy bikes or vehicles anyway.

Possibly a work bench with a computer for me and sewing machine for Margo :-) I just like the open empty space of the rear section as I am a bit claustrophobic in cluttered areas.
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Reply By: Isuzumu - Sunday, Jun 08, 2008 at 19:30

Sunday, Jun 08, 2008 at 19:30
Sorry I can not help you much with a tow vehicle......unless you can afford a VW Toureg V10, but I am very impressed with your photography.

Cheers Bruce

Cheers Bruce
D.Max and Jayco Outback

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