Restricted areas on the CSR

Submitted: Monday, Jun 16, 2008 at 11:07
ThreadID: 58842 Views:2121 Replies:5 FollowUps:10
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Hi all
Has anyone got detailed or confirmed infomation on exactly what is meant by restricted access to Killagurra Gorge - Biella Springs & the Calvert Range? Does it mean no go no exceptions or yes if you pay some money and get a special permit - if yes does anyone know where you apply for a permit to visit these areas?
Thanks in advance for replies
Cheers
Mike

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Reply By: Stewy - Monday, Jun 16, 2008 at 12:22

Monday, Jun 16, 2008 at 12:22
Try this link, I have applied and gained access to the Calvert Ranges later this year

Site Link
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Reply By: Vivid Adventures - Monday, Jun 16, 2008 at 12:35

Monday, Jun 16, 2008 at 12:35
Complex issues.
They are listed on the WA Indigenous Heritage Register.
They are on land within the Martu Native Title Grant.
As they have had public access for many years, one might argue that that public access is still allowed.
Then again, there are "Closed" sites amongst them, or near them, to which access is not allowed except by permission from the Registrar.
Yet, for all of that, DIA put up a sign (for Calvert Range anyways) that says that you need a permit from WDLAC - implying that you need it because it is Martu land.
Thankfully, WDLAC seem to be happy to hand out permits for people who say and do all the right things (respect TOs, tread lightly, camp in campsites, travel on tracks) so keep in with the locals - apply for their (free) permit, respect their wishes and the legal minefield should not be an issue.
Cheers,
Andrew who thinks camels are desecrating more sacred sites than humans at present rates.
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Reply By: Member - Joe F (WA) - Monday, Jun 16, 2008 at 13:49

Monday, Jun 16, 2008 at 13:49
G'day Mike

If you go to VKS 737 Radio network web site www.vks737.on.net you will possibly be able to down load the Autum 2008 edition of the Network News publication. There is a lengthy but very informative article on exactly what you are asking.

Regards Joe

www.pilbaraironcountrytours.com
AnswerID: 310321

Reply By: equinox - Monday, Jun 16, 2008 at 20:37

Monday, Jun 16, 2008 at 20:37
Hi Mike,

First of all, who has told you these places are restricted and do you believe them?

If the restrictions are based on the “Native Title Act” and a certain determination by the Federal Court then the answer could lie in your definition of the “Canning Stock Route”. All that I say in this post is about the "Native Title Act" only.

I can only think of two definitions and here they are. The “Canning Stock Route” is a track that follows the wells surveyed by Alfred Canning or the “Canning Stock Route” is a temporary easement from 1906, five miles wide that passes by the wells surveyed by Alfred Canning.

An extract from FCA (Federal Court of Australia) ruling 1208 (James on behalf of the Martu People v Western Australia [2002] FCA 1208 (27 September 2002) states:

5. Other rights and interests
(e) Rights of any person to access and enjoy (subject to the laws of the State):
(ii) the Canning Stock route. <<--- This bit is important and is written in black and white too!!!

If you think the gorge and the springs are part of the “Canning Stock Route” then I wouldn’t worry about getting (Native Title) permission to visit. Remember, nobody really knows as no one has tested it in the Federal Court yet.

As far as the Calverts things are a bit different. The Calverts are not part of the “Canning Stock Route” and have been specifically named by Ngaanyatjarra Council on behalf of the Martu people as restricted…quote, “Calvert Ranges, and the track to Calvert Ranges and beyond”.

It would seem that you will have to get permission for the Calverts, though I’m not sure about the “beyond” part of the sentence as the Martu determination only goes as far as Lat. 24 degrees and the Calverts are almost on the border. “Beyond” is Unallocated Crown Land and is accessible to all.

Some people (bodies, clubs) will err on the side of the Ngaanyatjarra Council, to avoid conflict etc, but the Law is the Law, it doesn’t matter how many people say otherwise.

I am not intending to visit any of these places in the near future so have not fully researched it but that is my take on it at the moment.

Cheers and happy travels

Eq.
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In whatever comes our way.

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Follow Up By: Vivid Adventures - Monday, Jun 16, 2008 at 21:29

Monday, Jun 16, 2008 at 21:29
I think the Martu claim/determination, actually had a swathe through it that somehow relates to the easement of 1906. This is evident on the most recent Hema North West map...

There would also be common law rights on the track itself relating to what would, I suspect, be a common law road given the significant amount of traffic on it over the last 40 or so years - only issue is that roads can be closed (by state government ministers or shires, for instance).

Further it could be argued that there has been public access to the Calvert Range prior to Dec 1993 and thus your argument in thread 43134 should hold for that, as also for Durba Springs, etc.

All that aside, WDLAC seem more than happy to give permission to those that ask. Given that it was allegedly because someone upset a traditional owner that resulted in the "restrictions", why not just comply with their wishes whether legally necessary or not? After all, this is Martu country. Martu in my experience are wonderful people. They have lots of good stories and care a lot about the protection of some pretty wonderful places out there. Your trek up the CSR would only be enriched for every additional minute, hour or day you spent with them.

My 2c worth.
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Follow Up By: equinox - Monday, Jun 16, 2008 at 21:45

Monday, Jun 16, 2008 at 21:45
Hi Andrew,

I wasn't going to bring section 212 up on this post, but it may relate to the Calverts, /Durba Springs.

I've never met a Martu, but I'm sure they are wonderful people, most desert people are.

Cheers
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Reply By: KiwiAngler - Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 17:14

Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 17:14
Re the Calvert ranges -as at 12th June 2008

Once you have received your CSR permit from ANFWDC contact :

Richard Taylor

richard.taylor@westnet.com.au
(08) 9755 2370
0417 891 011

Give him your:

CSR permit #
vehilce rego
your name
number of persons travelling
approx date you will be travelling

and he will issue a free permit on behalf of western Deserts Lands Aboriginal Coprporation.

It takes about 1 week and you get the permit as an e-mail attachment

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Follow Up By: Dave & Shelley (NT) - Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 21:02

Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 21:02
Hi Kiwi

I have just submitted my details, Hope this works. If it does you are a champ!!!

Dave
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Follow Up By: KiwiAngler - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2008 at 16:36

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2008 at 16:36
You shouldnt have any problems - I have received my permit last week without an issue
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Follow Up By: equinox - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2008 at 19:20

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2008 at 19:20
Hi Kiwi,

A couple of questions if I may?

Who is Richard Taylor and whom does he represent?

On the permit, who is issueing the permit (what letterhead etc)? Is it ANFWDC or the council?

Is there any Management Stategies or restrictions imposed on a visit to the Calverts?

My last corresponance with the council was March last year whereby they indicated that they may consider allowing access with a guide for a fee, but they would be reconsidering public access after audits had been done etc within a couple of years.

Cheers
Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.

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Follow Up By: Dave & Shelley (NT) - Wednesday, Jun 18, 2008 at 20:06

Wednesday, Jun 18, 2008 at 20:06
Hi Kiwi,

Thankyou for the contact. Richard was able to grant me a permit today as I am leaving from Darwin on Friday to start my long service leave (read CSR from south to North). He was very prompt and helpful. This is why I really like this forum. Cheers mate you have made my trip.

Cheers

Dave
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Follow Up By: equinox - Friday, Jun 27, 2008 at 15:24

Friday, Jun 27, 2008 at 15:24
Kiwi,

Don't worry about answering.

Obviously you have your reasons for not answering.

I thought it may have been not to much trouble seeing as though you brought up the gentlemans details and probably have the answers.

Sorry for bothering you again.

Have a good day.

Regards

Alan.
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In whatever comes our way.

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Follow Up By: KiwiAngler - Friday, Jun 27, 2008 at 15:58

Friday, Jun 27, 2008 at 15:58
Alan

I suplied all the details that I have/had in the reply I posted

I suggest if you need more information contact him direct
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Follow Up By: Vivid Adventures - Friday, Jun 27, 2008 at 17:18

Friday, Jun 27, 2008 at 17:18
He works for WDLAC.
The permit is from WDLAC.
There are requirements that you comply with the conditions otherwise on the CSR permit - no off-track, all garbage taken out, no disturbing of aboriginal sites.
No commercial photography or other commercial activities.
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Follow Up By: equinox - Friday, Jun 27, 2008 at 17:42

Friday, Jun 27, 2008 at 17:42
Thanks
Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.

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