Hydrogen gas - Alternator question: Please look

Submitted: Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 18:25
ThreadID: 58905 Views:2787 Replies:6 FollowUps:2
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Because of high fuel prices there has been a recent resurgence of HHO gas (browns gas) units. plans off the net or ready made units that run a current through water (with an electrolyte like caustic soda) and producing HHO which is then fed into the intake. (in an effort to supplement fuel or create a more complete burn)

The science is proven that it works, however the simple fact is it takes more energy as an input that the energy that is obtained from the HHO gas. (the old there is no such thing as free energy or the world would already be running on it)

Im not advocating snake oil peddling here (as if it were brilliant it would already be commercially available), im just trying to understand something.

My question relates to the workings of alternators. Does a standard alternator always put out its rated amount of energy? even if there is only a small draw on it?

ie if you had an 80A alternator, the regulator obviously regulates the charge that it charges your battery at. if the battery is near full charge and no accessories are on, there would be very small draw on the alternator. Is it still producing 80A?

And...

Does the alternator place any more strain on your engine (use more fuel to turn) when running near full load ie at 80Amps.

If its always producing 80A regardless of accessory draw, then wouldnt the excess power be useful to power a HHO unit (even tho we all know the energy derived from the gas would be less than the energy used from the alternator) Its more of a redirection of energy...certainly not efficient use, but possibly beneficial.

But...

If to create more Amps it creates more turning resistance on the engine (thus more fuel use) then the benefits from creating HHO gas would be outweighed and useless..

I realise people will make all kinds of hiclone jokes etc etc :-) and i am of good humour.

In summation i realise that in a lab situation it takes more energy to produce the gas, than the energy that can be derived from the gas. I am wondering if in a car, the alternator provides surplus energy which does not effect the cars fuel use, that could be used to power such a unit.

I am not trying to sell some crack idea, I am just wanting someone to explain to me, as I am curious.

Thanks

Jeff




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Reply By: obee - Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 19:21

Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 19:21
the alternator only starts to do work when the wiring is shorted by a load (resistance) like when you turn the lights on or crank the motor.

there are three factors. resistance, current and electrical pressure. All are required if there is any work to be done.If your perpetual motion flywheel is spinning happily and then you start to draw energy from it, it will slow down unless power is provided from another source (fanbelt).

Owen
AnswerID: 310585

Reply By: qubert - Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 19:52

Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 19:52
look at tihs site- http://www.fuelfromh2o.com/news.html.
they claim to produce enough hho to run a small generator
AnswerID: 310598

Reply By: Yabbo1 - Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 20:37

Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 20:37
Jeff,

An alternator produces volts (electrical pressure if you like). This can be thought of a as potential to do work. It is only going to do work ie produce a current (measured in Amps) when it has a load.

If the battery is fully charged (12.7V), its resistance is very high (infinite). This is because as much charge as possible is jammed onto the positive and negative terminals. It won't draw a current from the alternator which will spin freely hampered only by the friction in its bearings.

If the battery is discharged at all, its resistance is lowered. There is now room at the terminals for more charge as some has been used for the work that the battery has done in ,say, starting your engine.The more the discharge, the more room at the terminals, so the lower the resistance in the battery. The alternator can now push current into the battery (the current your case can go up to a maximum of 80A) until the voltage in the battery is restored. This requires energy and the alternator now puts an extra load on the engine burning more fuel to provide that energy.

So guess what I'm really saying is that no, the 80A alternator is not producing or requiring any energy if it has no charging to do.

I hoe this helps.
Yabbo
AnswerID: 310613

Follow Up By: Eric Experience - Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 22:15

Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 22:15
Yabbo
Almost correct, when a battery is fully charged it has LOW resistance.
The current stops flowing because the battery is the same voltage as the alternator. If the battery had infinite resistance it would not be able to produce any current. I hope this helps you. Eric.
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FollowupID: 576663

Follow Up By: Yabbo1 - Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 22:54

Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 22:54
Eric
Yes you are right. I should have really said that the potential drop between the alternator and the battery decreases, causing the current to fall.
Cheers
Yabbo
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FollowupID: 576673

Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 20:39

Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 20:39
With headlights and all other electrics on you could be sucking several horsepower out of your engine just to keep the alternator turning. Running lights and aircon when not really needed uses more of that expensive stuff you poor into your tank at the bowser.
AnswerID: 310616

Reply By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 22:24

Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 at 22:24
Hi Jeff

The alternater places a variable load on the engine , more or less proportional to the load place on it to supply power.

The hydrogen generation from water systems are all duds and there are many variations.

I have helped a few thru these situations from there intial enthusiasm till their final disillusionment.

My last mate, did the best out of it, he sold his experimental high frequency equipment on ebay and got almost 1/3 of what he paid for it



Robin Miller

Member
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AnswerID: 310662

Reply By: revhead307 - Thursday, Jun 19, 2008 at 11:28

Thursday, Jun 19, 2008 at 11:28
I have been away for a day, so just logged on.

Thankyou all who replied, that has definitely satisfied my curiosity! Am happy now not to give the concept any more thought.

Regards
Jeff
AnswerID: 310928

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