Diesel - Gas conversions

I have toyed with this idea for some time.

Do your research.I have only heard of one company that is worth it.
Your price range above is about right as a starting point.
Don't do it if economy is your sole reason. Main advantage will be power increase with minimal. if any, savings.
Others should have more to offer.

Paul

Paul,
I am seriously looking at Diesel/LPG on my TD LC towing a 21'6" van.
My thinking is that if LPG gives a 30% power increase (and claimed 30% economy increase) it should be worthwhile. With a 30% power increase I should not have to put my foot down so far which should in theory give me the economy.

However the best power band for my cruiser/van is around 95kph at XRPM so with the Lpg, this could alter the speed/RPM powerband equation and so the economy.

Christian, I understand that there are a number of LPG systems out there, some are a lot more computerised than others, I am looking at a non computerised system. Do not want any problems out in the bush as some of the computerised systems have to be tuned with a program in a laptop. This type of equipment and skills are in short supply out of the capital cities.

I think you are right to ask about the 3Lt Patrol I recall reading on a Forum cannot recall which one, that LPG on this engine was not recommended. You should definetly follow this up on the Patrol Forum where you will probably find 3Lt owners have LPG fitted on their TD's, if there isn't any on this forum.

Comments appreciated

Peter

better off calling this company called hydroxy technologies. its once off payment, quick installment, and get gas for free for ever.
its the ol' gas from water / electrolysis thing. amazing fuel efficiency for free!!
call the ozy dealer on 0428846203 and have a chat.

Christian

There seem to be two main systems on the market, Dgas and Dieselgas Australia.

I decided on the D-gas system for a couple of reasons.

1) It was a far more simple system than the Dieselgas Australia system
2) The guys I spoke to were more than willing to spend the time explaining their system, while not writing off the competition.
3) Price. Probably the least important reason but the D-gas system came in at the time about $600 less expensive.

Now having had it for almost 12 months, I do have some opinions.

Mine was one of the very early D-gas systems installed. It was actually installed here in Perth by the guys who designed and developed the system. Last week it went in for a replacement of the heat exchanger that the gas runs through as it was leaking water quite badly. The developers no longer do the installs as they are flat out producing the equipment, so I was directed to another company close by for the warrranty work. This was handled with no fuss at all and at very short notice as we are doing a 6 week trip around WA leaving on July 26th, so as you can imagine there is still plenty to do to the vehicle before we head off.

The original system was some kind of polyester piping I believe which has now gone to mainly brass which will be so much better.

If you are looking at the system from a purely economy viewpoint, you will most likely be dissapointed. You do definitelty pick up 20% - 30% increase in power which is very very noticeable when towing the camper. Where you do win on the economy scale is in the overall cost of fuel / litre. I have kept a spreadsheet of my most recent fuel tracking and costings which shows you the diesel price, gas price and then the combined price per litre, which actually comes in less than the current unleaded price.

So you really dont get better economy as such, but your overall fuel cost definitely is reduced, to the point where I estimate that my install has paid for itself within the first year (keeping in mind that here in WA we get a $3000 rebate back on the install)

The D-gas system is very simple being pressure controlled and the gas is injected post turbo as opposed to the Dieselgas Australia solution which has to be tuned across the rev range with a computer and is injected pre turbo. Based on this I was much more comfortable with the D-gas system overall.

Just my observations, hope it helps you some.

Hi Christian,

My 4.2TD GU is due back tomorow from a fit up with the D-Gas system. The work is being completed in Melbourne by Smithy's Gas in Barry Street BAYSWATER. Although the job is not yet complete, so far, thier service has been excellent. I spoke with Terry who was very helpful on the phone, the next day he sent out a full written quotation plus more information on the system and expected results from the install and a money back guarantee. I have been delayed one day (one weekend) and they rang and apologised, described the hold up clearly and kept me in the loop. The cost for the 4.2 was at the higher end of the figures you posted, less the federal rebate and of course, no rebate from the wonderful, I mean woefull Vic state Gov't. I would recommend giving them a call for info. As a Perth Expat, I originally spoke with DGas in Perth and they recommended Smithys as one of two experienced fitters in Melb.. Regards

Hi,

Has anybody, especially those with 3L Patrols, any experience with the Ecoshot diesel gas system ?

There are many of these systems on the market, but this one seems to be very simple, made up of only mechanical components - no electronics. It's also, and perhaps rightly so, one of the cheaper ones.

Cheers,

Nic

Wow! This is the first time I have posted a thread on Exploroz
and I was blown away by the number of people that are interseted enough to give their 2c worth. Thanks heaps.

Richard sounds like the guru when it comes to this stuff and the simple d-gas system sounds the way to go.

I recently sold a '92 TD 80 series and after owning a new d40 TD Navara for a very short time (big mistake buying that thing!) I did my homework and a lot of research and decided on a 3.0 GU patrol as my next 4WD that will hopeful last me 10 or more years.

They do have a bad reputation, and taking that into consideration I can understand why some people would recommend against puting the 3.0 GU on gas. However, unless there is a factual mechanical reason for not doing it, I think I would be pretty much sold on doing it now.

I will give the mob at Bayswater a call. They sound top notch and as I live in Croydon it couldn't be any closer!

Thanks again.

I just spoke to a guy who fits ECO SHOT in Melbourne.

They do seem cheaper, but the things that concern me are;

1. The gas is delivered 6" prior to the turbo. This worries me as everybody knows gas dries out valves etc in petrol/gas cars and what would this do to my turbo over time, which is hot and spinning at high speed?

2. The gas is in vapour form (I believe in the tank - I dont know how this is achieved though).

Eco shot claim that because the gas is a vapour, you use less.

From what I have read, this can be an issue in situations such as hill climbs etc when the system that is designed for vapour is flooded by liquid gas.

DGAS apparently uses a controller that converts the liquid to a vapur just prior to it being 'injected' post turbo. Gas therefore doesn't go anywhere near your turbo.

It probably sounds like I'm selling Dgas and truth be told I am leaning that way, but still doing my homework. I thought it's worth sharing my thoughts. I can see quite a few of us going down the diesel gas path given the increasing price of fuel. Be stuffed if I'm ever going to sell my fourby and swap it for a Prius!........

Hi all,

I just picked up my 4.2 from Smithys in Bayswater VIC after D-gas install. I have only driven from Bayswater to home (about 20k's) but was astonished at the difference in power.. Rest assured, the claims made by D-gas are pretty close to the mark. Except at idle, the diesel chatter is almost completely gone, the car drives like a petrol motor, it cruises up hills without needing to change down a gear and it accelerates nicely. I have not seen any smoke from exhaust, although mine ran pretty clean anyway. It will take a few months to establish if mileage is better, but at this point I have to say 'who cares', the power is great, however give it a few more diesel price increases and I will be keen to know.

The install is really nice, they tucked the unit out of the way, the piping is fantastic and its all brass etc. Very happy so far. The only thing annoying me so far, is I dont get $3000 rebate like in WA.... Vic Gov't is tooooo tight.. If you have spare few grand. DO IT!! (I am not affiliated in anyway to any gas fitting or LPG industry) Good Luck..

After a couple of days, I finally got onto Smithys in Bayswater that everyone is talking about.

The info that the provided me over the phone was good and was pretty what you guys have posted.

The only two issues I have now is,

There is a 4 - 5 week wait.

The total cost is $4400.

With the Govt rebate I will be out of pocket $2400. The only question is how long will it take me to pay that off? Somewhere around 2 - 3 years.

Its a fair bit of cash...

Is it just me, or did the cost of gas converstions creep up with the introduction of the the Govt rebate. I was of the belief that a few years ago you could get it done for half that price.....

Maybe I'm just a bit of a tight ar%e!

If anyone who is interested in the conversion and is still reading...

I have contacted few different mobs in Melbourne that do the conversions. The average seems to be about $4400.
After hearing about a few myths regarding the Ecoshot, I rang the Ecoshot people to dispell some of the myths that relate mainly to,
1) the issue of gas being fed through the turbo and any issues long term with that and,
2) Gas liquid (as opposed to vapour) being drawn from the tank on steep hill climbs etc..

I was told that after all the conversions they have done which include many competition trucks, none have had any issues with fuel 'flooding' from the gas tank. I was told that you would have to drive up or down a 60 to 70 degree slope for this to be an issue.

In relation to the gas being injected through the turbo - The gas ration is something along the lines of 45:1 and therefore there is such little gas in the mix that there is no danger of combustion in the turbo or gas drying out bearings etc...

After all my research I am still undecided. The cost of fitting the Ecoshot is around $3500 plus about $150 to modify the exhaust. Regardless of what system I go with, I am leaning towatds a 2.5" to 3" exhaust while they are at it as it would probably only cost an extra couple hundred bucks to supply a new one, as opposed to modifying the original exhaust....

God love the internet for research.......