Are 3 way fridges on the way out?

Thanks Mike, but you don't say why.

Personal opinion? No probs and I tend to agree with you.

Try camping in the Vic High Country for a week or two with a compressor fridge - you'll need a gen or solar panel (about $1K) and a 100Ah AGM battery (about $300) and petrol or sunshine and no forest cover (solar) and you'll need to track the sun (solar).

Me? My blue Chescold and one 4Kg gas bottle :) Biggest problem is stopping the damn thing getting too cold!

Compressor fridges are OK for you people who can't sit still for more than a day or so but for those of us who want to relax by a mountain creek give me a 3 way anytime.

Mike Harding

Hahaha......
A fridge in Victoria...Hahahaha
Your beers would be cold enough straight out of the box wouldnt they?

LOL

I agree with Mike
I have both a 39 lt Engel and a 40 Lt 3 way.
Gas is easier to buy from a servo than electricity.
My 3 way will run a month on 9kg of gas. the engel will run about 36 hours on the battery and I have to camp in the blazing NQ sun to keep the battery charged.

I know where I prefer to keep my beers!

Craig

Mike Harding posted:
......... give me a 3 way anytime.

Umm You, Mildred and ?

OK! Who's been talking out of turn!?

heheheheeh Mike It wasn't me Must've been Mildred

"Mike Harding posted:
......... give me a 3 way anytime.

Umm You, Mildred and ? "

. . . . . the goat ??????

Mildred IS the goat hahahahahahah

Correction: despite the roads down which your, if I say it myself, unusual "requirements" may lead you Bonz... Mildred is but one goat....

Mike Harding

Bullchit !!

OK - your right. They also take up space and use electricity. Good thing is, they use gas rather than produce it.

Hi
The reason most of them don't work correctly is because they have not been installed correctly.
#1:-99% HAVE UNDERSIZED WIRING.Check yours & see if you are getting at least 12v [ the designed voltage] when it is running.
#2:- most people do not seem to know that they need to be within 3 degs of being level for correct operation & using out of level can cause permanent damage.
#3 :- most do not have sufficient ventilation @ rear to get rid of heat.[I have fitted a fan to assist]
I have a 40lt ENGEL & a 3way & 200w of solar .
On many occassions during a long period of poor weather I'VE been glad I had the 3way . It' always there WORKING, even in hot weather ,because it is correctly installed .
Run it on 12v while travelling[ illegal to run on gas]IF wired correctly it will continue to operate correctly

Hi 123,

I should have added that my experience is based on an upright 3 way in an off-road pop top. The chest types do seem to have a following but the upright ones seem to give a lot of people grief. In my case, I have been researching how to get them working for ages. I have upgraded the installation fully, including a fan kit as recommended by the fridge manufacturer. I initially thought this had worked but it failed to perform in hot weather. So now I am out of warranty. Caravan shop says they will test the fridge at a cost and if heat exchanger is faulty, repair will be around the costs of replacement. I run a 40l Engel and it is brilliant. I will replace the 3 way with a compressor fridge when the budget allows.

There are too many threads on this site and others that bag them. Clearly some work - some don't.

Probably the originator of this thread just intended to "pull the strings" of those who support 3 ways but its a useful thread because it warns people that 3 way fridges do have problems.

Cheers

Skulldug

Compressor fridge's allready have I believe...

What is convienient about running out of gas....?
Never run outa sunshine or 12v power either LOL

Mainey . . .

The convenience is you don't have to spend $1000 on solar panels and solar panels don't give any power at night and are limited when it's overcast.
I've got a both a compressor fridge and a 3 way chescold, so I use the one to suit the application.
Also 3 way fridges have no moving parts, so usually last for donkies years.

The biggest power consumption period for ANY fridge is during the heat of the day when the fridge is most often used and therefore also runs more often, as fridge's don't loose a lot of internal cabinet temperature at night (by comparison)

A quality "$1000 Solar panel" produces ~110 watts (6.5 amps)

Considering an average Compressor fridge _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx about 5 Amps, and @ 50% duty cycle equals ~2.5ah, the 110 watt solar panel therefore will maintain the battery fully charged, because the Solar panel replaces more than the Compressor fridge will use in any 24 hour period, including night.

The Compressor fridge can therefore run continuously with no extra cost, or having to leave camp to go get more gas, where the vehicle fuel cost alone, to go and get the gas would be exorbitant in most circumstances by any comparison, let alone the inconvenience.

This scenario assumes an AGM DC battery system is powering the fridge and the Solar regulator is not an elcheapo on/off one, but a quality 3 stage model !!

Mainey . . .

I don't know what you're point is - you'll still be spending big bucks for a solar setup and still still doesn't address the problem of overcast weather.
A 9kg gas cylinder will last 4 weeks on a Chescold 3 way fridge/freezer, so this is more than adequate for 99% of campers.

Sorry, I thought my point was clear, but will repost with the main points highlighted.

My point is-> "an average Compressor fridge _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx about 5 Amps, and @ 50% duty cycle equals ~2.5ah, the 110 watt solar panel *WILL* maintain the battery *FULLY CHARGED*, because the Solar panel *REPLACES MORE POWER* than Compressor fridge USES in any 24 hour period, including night"

"The Compressor fridge *WILL RUN* continuously with no extra cost, or having to leave camp to go get more gas, where the vehicle fuel cost alone, to go and get the gas would be exorbitant in most circumstances by any comparison, let alone the inconvenience"


I think an Engel/Waeco fridge and *quality* solar panel will be similar price to a gas fridge when you add in the inconvenience and price of gas bottle and refilling. ??

Remember *Quality* solar panels *WILL* work in low light conditions.

As you post, if your travelling you MUST have two gas bottles to run the fridge to be able to get 8 weeks, so when they are BOTH empty, you have to spend at least $70 (plus) to get them both refilled again.

I hope they never run out when your not near a gas refill station, because to fill a 1/2 empty gas bottle is the same price as filling an empty one.

Mainey . . .

Hi MAINY
I guess you are referring to CHEST TYPE OPERATING AS FRIDGE , NOT AS A FREEZER,I think your amp hrs daily use would substantualy higher day & night if used on very cold settings .[ the 50% cycle is about right for 3deg] depnding on ambient temp.
I use my Engle as a freezer [ to keep the fish ,meat etc] for long term camps & even with 200w of solar & 170 ah batteries have @ times had to move everything to the 3 way.
Not often but it does happen, without the 3 way back up it would be out with the genny [ but no , I can't use it in a nat pk!!] so throw every thing away!!
So advise to all is :-,
Carefully consider just what you expect of your fridge /freezer, the weather you may encounter@ times, the likely length of stay, do you want /can you use a genny to charge battery or run fridge,you battery capacity versus your daily amp/hr use, if your vechicle is deisel you have to carry separate fuel for genny[ how much? & where? , a bottle of gas will run a 3way for about 4weeks !,2 bottles & you dont have to rush out to get gas.

Hi Mainey

So we're now up to 100W+ of solar panels, a quality 3 stage regulator, a significant amount of AGM Ah battery capacity and, depending upon where you live, an intelligent rotator to keep the panels turned towards the sun (join me for four weeks in the Vic high country under tree cover?) and God alone knows what else.

Now I acknowledge gas has a cost - but when I don't use it (8 months? of the year) then it doesn't cost me anything - but $2K+ of solar stuff is sitting useless for that time too.

If one is regularly on the move and can recharge from the vehicle then compressor fridges are the way to go but if one chooses to sit in the shade by a mountain creek for a week and doesn't want to lug big batteries around and take a hit from the cost of a gen/solar system then a 3 way has an awful lot going for it.

It's not a competition or a "which man has the biggest fridge" it's just a "horses for course" judgement.

Mike Harding

Mike,
Yes, a 110 watt solar panel is ~$1,000, quality Solar reg is ~$200, 2 x very good quality 100ah AGM's ~$460 (total ~$1,660) and yes that's getting close enough to $2,000 particularly if you buy more efficient products it will cost more money than some of the elcheapo products available.

However you still need an Auxiliary battery to run a 3 way fridge too, and because a 3 way fridge does use far more 12v power than a compressor fridge, it has to be a good Aux battery and charging system too.

BUT...
when we look at the actual cooling/freezing *performance* available from a compressor fridge when compared to a 3 way fridge, there is some difference, and I (personally) don't believe we should bring money into the equation to justify the lesser performance of the lower cost 3 way fridge by making it appear equivalent in *performance* when compared to the more expensive higher performance compressor fridge.

As has been said above, it's "horses for courses" a 3 way fridge/freezer may be totally sufficient to use in the cooler area of the Vic high country under tree cover, but as a fridge/freezer used in Kakadu or anywhere in the far north of Australia, I'm not so sure the answer would still be the same ?

Mainey . . .

Hi
Mainy saud
"However you still need an Auxiliary battery to run a 3 way fridge too, and because a 3 way fridge does use far more 12v power than a compressor fridge, it has to be a good Aux battery and charging system too."
WHY? You should only use it on 12v while travelling. Fit a moton senser to turn it "off" when you stop in case you do forget to change to gas.!!
Agree it will use more from the alternator, IF you are pushing for output that could be a problem .
No one is claiming that a 3way is more power efficient than a compressor or faster freezing or can tolerate extremely high temps, each has its own place & neither is the perfect answer to every circumstance.
ITis fact that a 3way is usable as long as you have gas & the ambient temp is not much above 40d & a compressor requires 12v power which may not always be available by solar alone.
With many years of travelling, much of it remote, with both 3way & compressor[compressor for about40 years] I would not put my trust in a compressor alone even with a geeny as a back up.

>However you still need an Auxiliary battery to run a 3 way fridge too

No you don't. I don't and I'd suggest it would be a very foolish way to try and run a 3 way because of their heavy power consumption, their 12V option should only be used whilst travelling and for stops of no more than about one hour,

>when we look at the actual cooling/freezing *performance*
>available from a compressor fridge when compared to a 3 way
>fridge, there is some difference

Agreed. The compressor pulls down faster and to a lower temperature and probably performs better in 40C+ conditions. However my blue Chescold fridge/freezer happily pulls down to -14C on a 35C+ day. About two years ago I started a thread here asking what results people had experienced with 3 ways in the tropics - the responses were, almost, all very positive.

As I said "horses for courses".

Mike Harding

Mike,
You've posted: "No you don't (need an Auxiliary battery to run a 3 way fridge) I don't and I'd suggest it would be a very foolish way to try and run a 3 way because of their heavy power consumption, THEIR 12V OPTION SHOULD ONLY BE USED WHILST TRAVELING and for stops of no more than about one hour"

So Mike, can I ask you: how you power the 3 way fridge if you don't have/use a Auxiliary battery ?
Surely you would NOT recommend connecting a 3 way fridge to your (only) CRANKING battery ??

Would be a bugga if you went shopping and come back to a flat Cranking battery simply because you forgot to change the fridge to run on gas 'cause you thought you would be away only a few minutes, not an hour !!

Mainey . . .

>Surely you would NOT recommend connecting a 3 way fridge to
>your (only) CRANKING battery ??

Of course.

My fridge _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx 10A - any 4WD type starting battery in even medium condition should be able to support a 10A load for at least two hours and still be able to start the vehicle. I think most people are capable of timing how long they are away for.

I think you're missing the point Mainey; by definition the above situation doesn't happen very often because most of my camping is stays of some days (weeks) in one place, so my stops are usually for lunch or shopping if I were on the road all the time I would have a compressor fridge.

As an electronics design engineer if I thought a flat battery was a possibility I'd make a timer to cut the fridge out after a couple of hours but there is no need.

Mike Harding

Mainey

You don't have a clue on 3 way fridges do you? Many of my friends operate a 3 way fridge in their caravans without a hot wire in the tug to supply the fridge and do not have a battery in their van.

Some of the new fridges do need 12 V power when running on gas but these are the new fridges with auto lighting. When the gas is lit the fridges will then run without battery power.

PeterD

Peter, you posted: "Many of my friends operate a 3 way fridge in their caravans without a hot wire in the tug to supply the fridge and do not have a battery in their van"

You say these friends do NOT have any other method of running a 3way fridge, other than on gas ??

Is running on gas *when travelling* dangerous ??

When travelling with a 3 way (12v/240v/gas) fridge, how is their electricity supplied "without a hot wire in the tug to supply the fridge and do not have a battery in their van"

Do they only use gas - no electricity at all to power the 3way fridge at any time ?

Mainey . . .

Mainey

Have you not read FollowUp 5 of Reply 6? You probably also did not read and understand Reply 9 on thread 59786. If you had then you would not have come back with such tripe. This is another example of your lack of understanding on these subjects.

PeterD

Peter,
I only asked you some questions.

I thought it would be easy (and polite too) for you to answer them, I sorry if I have upset you, as my implied "lack of understanding" can only be improved by being correctly informed by you, as this is all I have asked of you.

(A) Your friends do NOT have any other method of running a 3way fridge, other than on gas ??

(B) Is running on gas *when travelling* dangerous ??

(C) When travelling with a 3 way (12v/240v/gas) fridge, how is their electricity supplied "without a hot wire in the tug to supply the fridge and do not have a battery in their van"

(D) Do they only use gas - no electricity at all, to power the 3way fridge at any time ?

stpiing a 3way drawing 12v when stopped is very simple. i bought a camper which had the power running through a relay activated by power to the coil - theres other ways to do it but you get the drift

""But dont rely on my comments ............. get plenty of people who tell me I have no idea what i am talking about""

Steve, I believe you :-))

Mainey . . .

You still need 12 volts while you are driving, & 3 way fridges aren't very efficient on 12 volts. They are very good on 240v & particularly ... gas.

Hi Shaker
Shaker said
"You still need 12 volts while you are driving, & 3 way fridges aren't very efficient on 12 volts. They are very good on 240v & particularly ... gas."
The element rating for 240v & 12v is the same [watts],the problem is undersized wiring in the 12v circuit. , the element usually is NOT GETTING 12V .,check with a voltmeter @ fridge terminals with fridge "on".Even 1volt less means 16% less power from element. 2v less ,which is common, gives 30% loss .
YOU still need 12v while driving with a compressor fridge too don't you ??

>>>YOU still need 12v while driving with a compressor fridge too don't you ?? <<<<

Certainly do, but they are far more efficient on 12 volts, the 3 way fridges are excellent for base camping on gas.
I have owned both types of fridge.

Mainey

Some of my friends do not power their fridges on any of the 3 sources of power. They just don't open them until they are on power at their destination. None of them have suffered food poising.

PeterD

Peter,
maybe your friends don't drive far, or the fridge cabinet temperature would be above the recomended safe level.

Maybe they don't mind drinking warm beer either LOL

Can you freeze beer, then let it thaw out, so it's *drinkable* @ 1 degree, (not half frozen or warm) when they arrive at the campsite ?

Mainey . . .

Mainey

3 way fridges are a modern feature. The early absorption fridges did not have the 12 V operation. We did not run our fridges on gas when travelling. Before fridges in vans, travellers used ice boxes which did not keep food at temperatures as low as absorption fridges do. No one died of food poisoning in those days either, we knew a little more on how to treat food whilst travelling than people brought up on frozen food and large fridges.

PeterD

Ken,
no good posting as you have done, without using the brand names of each product, and the complete technical specs of the system..!

I read it and think the system has to be much too small and wired up incorrectly with elcheapo solar regulator, solar panels and wetcell batteries that are too low in capacity anyway.

You say your "mate" never gets 12 months from a battery


I suggest, that's because the solar system used is ELCHEAPO crap !!

I think the 'thieves' picked the "easy" fridge to sell, or the fridge they would rather use :-))

Mainey . . .

A 12/240 Volt compressor fridge, similar in technical design to the Engel or Waeco, will run @ ~5 Amps, which will give from a claimed low of 1.8 to high of 2.9 Amp Hour consumption numbers, depending on everything that matters being perfect at the time of testing.

With a Gas fridge it's NOT possible to get anywhere near as low as those numbers, I believe they run close to 18 Amps, but they are specifically designed specifically to run on gas, not on electricity so the 18 amps may be continious ??

Mainey . . .

Hi Unko
Yes, 3ways do use more amps than a compressor fridge THAT'S WHY YOU RUN THEM ON GAS WHEN CAMPED.
Depending on size they draw 10 to15 amps when calling for power . Most modern ones are now thermostatically controlled.

Compressor fridges typically draw 4 to 5amps when running but many manufacters make the lower current claims as per Mainy 's post .It is based on average operation of 50% over the day[ ie 1.8 to 2mps for 24hrs =48 amp hrs] & as with any fridge,compressor or 3way, is dependent on thermostat setting . & how cold you want your fridge , ambient temperature, how often you open the fridge, how hot the stuff you put into the fridge is.

It seems to me from this entire discussion that Mainey is completely bias towards compressor fridges with a solar setup.
Perhaps this is so as he is ignorant, or perhaps it is because he has a financial interest in selling solar energy? If this is the case, then his opinion should not be taken into consideration.
He is wrong about a solar setup, as the costs DO NOT outweigh the benefits. As he mentioned a solar setup is close to $2000, while a brand new Chescold 40L is around $900 (good 2nd hand ones go for around half this).
Yes compressor fridges are better performing that 3 way fridges (I have both), but what he fails to see is the application for the fridge.
To all those people who are choosing a fridge it is very simple: if you plan to be on the move then get an compressor fridge, but if you are in the one place for more than a few days then get a 3 way Chescold fridge. If you're not sure, then get a compressor fridge and run your car for half an hour a day.

ozwasp
You've posted:
"Yes compressor fridges ARE BETTER PERFORMING that 3 way fridges (I have both), but what he fails to see is the application for the fridge"
ozwasp, why not clarify your post so we can all understand what "the application for the fridge" really is, then we will all know the facts (according to you)

You've posted:
my "opinion should not be taken into consideration because I sell solar systems"
However, that statement also dictates that ALL sellers of solar systems, including the opinions of ALL forum 'advertisers' including Derek from ABR
according to you, are NOT taken into consideration - those thoughts are amazing !!

You "think" I am wrong about a solar set-up, BUT... you post:
""Yes compressor fridges are better performing that 3 way fridges""
so why am I so confused ??

If anyone believes your last statement:
"If you're not sure, then get a compressor fridge and run your car for half an hour a day"
I will state categorically, ½ hour will do next to nothing to recharge a low Auxiliary battery.

If that statement was even partially true, then I would buy a generator and run it for ½ hour a day, it would have saved me money and the benefit of (not) having my battery bank fully charged daily in just ½ an hour (I think NOT)

With my solar system I never have to look, touch or check it because I know it FULLY maintains my Cranking battery & AGM battery system with-out any supervision or ongoing costs.

Mainey . . .

If you had read further into my last post, I clarified the point at the bottom, "if you are in the one place for more than a few days then get a 3 way."
Compressor fridges are better performing a bit like cars are better performing on the road than 4wds - so why do we all own 4wds???
You do have a good point about getting a generator though. For $100 you can pick up a generator from Bunnings which could be used to top up a car's battery for how ever long is required per day. This would still mean anybody doing so would be around $1900 infront!!

Another option could be to get a wind turbine setup.
LOL... At least you've got the chance of the wind blowing 24hours a day and you'd still be infront financially.

ozwasp,
yes I've looked into "wind turbine" set-ups
however found the larger "turbines" are a bit noisy, more so than a quality 4stroke generator and also very dangerous when used in close camping conditions, kids are such curious creatures and tend to want to place sticks on the spinning turbine blades.

Have you checked the price recently, as last time I did they were more expensive than a Solar system of equivalent power supply, even taking into account wind power is 24/7 when camped.
However when the Auxiliary battery is fully charged the advantage of 24/7 power supply is lost, as you can't overfill a battery system because the "turbine" regulator will eliminate power supply when the battery is full, as does the Alternator regulator in your vehicle and the Solar regulator too.

BUT... when you go into town the "wind turbine" system can't be set up in the local shopping centre - can it ?
However, the Solar system is working while the sun is shining, in the shopping centre car park, home or in the bush.

I camp on one particular beach for about two months most years and fortunately the very real advantage with Solar power is, you don't have to check anything, that's why they are used for remote power supply in the bush, for telephone exchanges, security lighting and homes etc...

I would not buy a cheap $100 generator, maybe a Yamaha or Honda 4stroke, because they are much better quality and with much more reliable 12v power output too.
But alas they are the same price as a quality Solar system anyway, so why would I want something I had to look after and maintain, to go and buy & store petrol for, when I drive a diesel and you can't use them in National Parks, crowded camping areas or probably the shopping centre either LOL



ozwasp, you have posted above:

"Yes, compressor fridges are *better performing* that 3 way fridges"

So it's simply a matter of choice, and I have chosen to use a "better performing" compressor fridge, to use your very own words!

Mainey . . .

Each to there own....
Perhaps if I were away often enough and for 2 months I'd go solar too.
Because it's only ever 2 weeks, it's not worth the expense.
The long and the short of it seems to be that if you are away for an extended period and frequently enough, then solar is viable.
For most people who are only away for a week or two occasionally, then solar wouldn't be the way to go.
It's true that compressor fridges are better and I would keep my Engel over the Chescold, but that's me and I'm never in the one spot for too long. The truth is though, it is handy having a 3 way for those rare occasions and if you can get a good 2nd hand one for less than half the new price, then you can't go wrong.

Battery
Amps hr (20hr) 90
Reserve capacity (min) 160
cold crankinng amps (-18dec) 710

Chescold RC1180
Size: Height 525mm, Width 665mm, Depth 505mm. Gross capacity 50 litres approx. (Refrigerator 30 litres and freezer 16 litres and divider 4 litres).
Consumption:
Electric 240 volts, 115 watt
Battery 12 volts,115 watts, 9.5 amps
Gas (LP) 0.86 MJ/H (375 grams per day) approx.
Weight when empty 25kg.


So the worst case it will use 15 amps that will run for about 6 hrs till drain and if i keep this up the battery wont last long will it.Is that about correct??

Hi UNKO
SEE POST #3

Just to clear up some confusion that seems to be about. A Chescold pulls near enough to 10 amps. It pulls it continuously because there is no thermostat on the 12 v circuit. There is on the 240v circuit.
12v is the least efficient of the three options but will keep it nice and cold while you're driving. It will take a very long time to pull down a warm fridge on 12 v. When you stop, figure on running your Chescold on 12v for about as long as you'd be comfortable leaving the headlights on.
The Engel is infinitely superior on 12v and it's possible to modify your wiring so that half an hours charging will make a difference. It's brutal though. You simply tweak your regulator circuit so that the alternator works harder. Needs care if you don't want to fry the battery! Been there, tried it all. Now own Chescolds!
Possibly if I was starting again the solar option might get me, would certainly help on those long camps but quite honestly the gas does everything I want.

Sometimes the jet will get carbon deposits built up on it and restrict operation. To clean it, use a toothbrush and some metho and brush the jet.
Another common issue is that the refrigerant solution needs to be mixed up if it hasn't been used for a while. To fix this issue, try turning the fridge upside down or on its side for about a minute.
I prefer the Chescold/Electrolux as they have a better cooling ability, but there are many other fridge only 3 ways. Waeco have one of theirs on sale at the momnet for $180 delivered, which is about half price compared with the other cheaper 3 ways.

See:
Cheap 3 way Waeco fridge

Thanks ozwasp, where do I find the jet please?, it an old cabinet type. Does not seem to be many new ones around.

Cheers Bruce.

Wherever the pilot flame is burning... usually on the bottom at the back

Thanks you

Cheers Bruce