Detroit v's Lockright v's Aussie Lokka

hi towie, just curious
where were you thinking of getting your aussie lokka from?

regards peter

Hi Towie,

Alot of people seem to knock the 4WD Systems Lokka but I had one (front of 75 series) and I rekocn the key to it working properly is the installation. The instructions are very strict on the measurements (can't remember what they are now) and if you get it wrong it won't work/operate properly (as designed).

People whinge about the noise and clunking etc...I never had that. The only thing I will say is that it did make the steering slightly heavier when (AND ONLY WHEN) in 4x4. But with power steering I thought it was a small price to pay for having the lokka and the price saving over an airlocker.

How they would stand up to the real heavy duty use (competition) I don't know - mine never gave me any dramas.

Now I'm not saying all 4WD Systems gear is good because I bought one of their snorkels for the 75 and it was a cr&^% kit if you ask me.

There will be that many different opinions on here mate that it will probably only make the decision harder.....but good luck ;)

I have factory fitted Toyota front and rear electric lockers on a new Troopy.
I am not sure if they will sell them as an aftermarket spare part or not.
Toyota advise that you shouldnt use them at speeds above 8kph.
I have used them at 20ks but you have to watch it as she tries to do her own thing and steering is difficult.
You can't use lockers on the open road - too dangerous - you have to run with both diffs open.

Towie & Megs

I have a Lokka in the front of my Hilux and it is the best $499 I ever spent. The only difference I have noticed in the steering is a slight tendency to self centre a little faster. Only once have I experienced heavy and difficult steering and that was while climbing up and around a steep and very muddy corner that lasted for about 30 metres. Both wheels were driving and loosing traction and the car was trying to steer itself. Exactly the same thing would have been happening with an air locker. That would not have happened had the corner been dry. Had any one of the wheels lost traction, it would have locked instantly and let go the moment either one of them regained enough contact with the road to turn faster than the other.

In operation one wheel is always either driving forward or holding the car back under engine braking. It can't have no wheels driving. This is probably why you feel the slight difference in self centering. The other wheel is always free to turn either faster than the driven wheel if it has a longer distance to travel and can maintain traction or slower than the wheel holding the car back under engine braking if it has a shorter distance to travel. You don't get heavy steering because two wheels on the same axle rarely, if ever, turn at exactly the same speed so it is almost always unlocked. The only exception would be if you were driving for any distance in mud or maybe sand and the wheel with the longest distance to travel was unable to get enough traction to turn itself ahead of the other. That is what happened on that muddy hill that I mentioned earlier but in situatiuons like that you want both wheels locked anyway.

This is why I have found it has made such a huge difference to the car on mountain tracks. I have a IFS model and it often lifts front wheels. If the one that lifts had been driving, the diff would lock instantly and the other wheel would take over. If the one on the ground had been driving, the car would keep going. The wheel in the air would not cause you to loose all traction like you would with an open diff. The moment they are both on the ground again and had traction, one would start turning faster than the other and the diff would unlock and revert to one wheel driving again.

This locking and unlocking might happen a dozen times for a second or two on a long rough hill but you don't feel it. All the driver notices is the car seems to be going forward with a lot less drama and wheel spin than it did without the Lokka. The thing locks at the exact moment you need it and goes back to one wheel only driving the moment either wheel is being driven faster by road contact.

I have free wheeling hubs but I often leave them locked in on sealed roads in 2wd while travelling between bush tracks. There are no steering problems while doing this except I can hear a slight muffled knocking noise once you get about a quarter turn or more on the steering wheel on corners.

You can hear the same knocking noise on full lock in camping areas or tight corners on tracks. It would sound alarming to many people if they did not know what it was but it is normal and is not doing any harm.

If you fitted one to the rear diff, you would hear the same knocking on some corners depending on how tight they were. The only time it could possible cause a few problems is any time a wheel lost traction. It would instantly lock if that happened and could cause some degree of rear wheel steering. The only time that is likely to happen is if you put your foot down a little too quickly on wet sealed roads, particularly on sharp corners, and the inside wheel lost traction.

That is why car manufactureres don't fit auto lockers as standard equipment. They would be a disaster in the hands of some drivers but if you know exactly how they work and drive according to the conditions, you shouild not have any problems with them.

I fitted mine myself but I would not recommend it to anyone unless they had a workshop manual in addition to the Lokka's fitting instructions. I have had a fair amount of diff experience and I thought the instructions were not detailed enough. I can see a lot of inexperienced people getting into trouble if those instructions were all they had to go by.

Brian

Towie
I have the full no stuffin' around Detroit No-Spin Auto Locker both ends of my Troopie, I very seldom know it's there , occasionaly you get a click from the rear when starting off, apart from that no problems, with the front hubs locked you can notice a slight heaviness in the steering , I had no steering problems in the Simpson , But I guess I'm wasting my time because like many others you'll want the cheaper products

Towie
Check out this website for some very good information on the subject.

Diff Lock Info

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Wow thanks fella's that is great i did alot of searching the internet last night also..
All your info is greatly and much appreciated..
Will have it pro-installed as im not close to that mechanically minded. Live in FNQ so we can be on the Maytown track in 2 hrs the OTL in a day and half and the Crebb Track in 45 mins....
Not into competition so i will fit one front and all being well a rear later if needed..
Am alittle concirned about the back for on road driving??
I know the Detroit is the ducks guts but have not done any pricing yet, will be done in Cairns so i will check local costs first.
I agree with the ARB airlockers being too expensive also, no need for them unless you have $$$ to burn...
Cheers Towie

Hi Towie

I have had both types and tested them under varying and controlled conditions.

While their is no-doubt they work well in some conditions like steep rocky uphills their is no doubt that they are bad news in others, so you need to think carefully about the
type of driving you do.

The dangers are that on slippery conditions the auto-locker can cause understeer which can throw you of a track very fast.
I have seen and helped out specific cases of vehicles being thrown of both icy and slippery clay roads because of the action of locking the wheels together and the force required to be generated by the road surface to unlock is great enough
that the wheels break traction and slide first.

The overall net effect of driving around Victorian tracks is that with an auto locker in the front of our patrol we had to spend a lot less time in 4wd for fear of loss of control of the front end.

The can present a further problem if your car has low bottom end torque, as many cars like patrol can't select between 2wd and 4wd when in low range unless you stop and unlock the hubs. THis becomes im practical when driving in a convoy or with a club.

Our current car (4800 patrol) has so much power in rarely needs low range and hence the steering effects of a locka can be minimized by swapping it in an out of 4wd without stopping.

We had a lock-rite brand and the Detroit type is a better type with less side effects as in takes only about 1/2 the degrees of rotation of a wheel before it unlocks.

These days we use front and rear ARB lockers , and the more effective and cheaper option of chains when things get serious.

(Yesterday we again rounded a slippery corner with a moderate uphill with wheels sliping and engaged both lockers only to progress forward just 2 more meters - thank heavens we had our chains)

Howie
I have had a lock-rite diff lock in the front axle of the Troopy for 3years now and love it. I actually took it out of the 80series I had before the Troopy. (just put back the original spider gears that the lock-rite replaces, ask the mechanic for them when he does the job and pack them away in lots of grease so you can swap them back if you sell the Troopy.)

My understanding of how they work is that it acts like locked limited slip differential. LSD at their simplest are a cone clutch held together by spring pressure and it releases when one wheel tries to go faster than the opposite one. Lock rites do the same job but are a dog clutch with teeth (held together with spring pressure) that give a positive grip and so dont slip when put under pressure hence a locked diff. Have a squiz at them before you put it in and it will explain it better than I have above.

They do make the steering harder but not excessively. Actually lets you know that you have got it 4WD. I have not had any trouble with it wanting to understeer at high speeds but it can feel as though it doesn't want to turn when going round a really slippery hair pin bend This is because the diff is locked until one wheel loses traction and the diff can then act as a normal diff. You have to get used to backing off the accelerator to allow it to uncouple. This is in my opinion where this diff locks shine as it is in effect an automatic unlocker as oppposed to air lockers where in the same position you would have to flick a switch to get around the corner. The same in sand as it couples and uncouples automatically allowing you to get a lot further than normal open diffs. In a staight line air lockers will win hands down but are about 4 times the price.

The noise you hear when turning under pressure is the teeth engaging and disengaging and should not be of any concern. They dont like hard turns on bitumen as they load the system up and they go off with a bit of a bang but you should not be in 4WD on a hard surface.(you only do this once!)

Even though the LSD in the rear diffs in Toyotas are cosidered useless after about 30 thousand K's I wouldnt bother with one in the rear as in a lot of situations you have a lot weight over the back wheels and it is usually one of the front wheels that breaks loose and stops you from going any further ie up a steep hill.

Hope this helps

Hello,
Ive had both airlockers and a detriot diff lock in a couple of previous Patrol's and an 80 series(air Locker rear).
I was happy with both however there are less things to go wrong with the detriot (was in a Maverick)as it is set and forget, I had no problems steering on or offroad, in fact I forgot to free the hubs for a week and didnt really notice other than the fleeting thought the car needed a wheel alignment due to a slight propensity to tramtrack.
It was in the front obviously.
If I was going to do my current Patrol I would be putting a locker in the front, I thought personally that front and rear lockers were overkill for a touring vehicle.
I have a couple of friends with the lokka in their Patrols (in front ,they are both 4800's and get driven hard offroad)and they seem quite happy with them and for the price it seems a good option,but get the lokka fitted professionally.
Regards Alan

hi
my ute has front and rear lokkas in it and its my dayely driver. when turning a sharp corner mine lock up. turning right at aroundabout is the worst

Well people the votes are in and being counted...
Detroit drive away $1900.. rear only
Airlocker drive away $2200... with compressor $1800 without
Lockright drive away $1100
Assie Lokka drive away $850

So now to decide as its only the front i want and Detroit only make a rear for 79 series its a no goer.
Therfore i think front should be an Aussie lokka and see how it goes if no good will throw it away.
Then if i need or do the rear perhaps ARB so i dont need to change my driving habits..

Thanks for all the help and WOT do you think about this choice... am a fan of buying Aussie made but only if its up to the task.. 3 year unlimitted warranty gives you plenty of test time...