hj 47 a bit smokey

Submitted: Sunday, Jul 27, 2003 at 00:28
ThreadID: 6198 Views:2361 Replies:5 FollowUps:2
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I bought an hj47 (1982) a while ago as is, I fully expected that the H2 engine might have to come out of it but I am a bit perplexed by the smoke it is blowing. It appears blue which would indicate oil, howeverit smells of diesel and although I haven't been able to drive the vehicle on the road as yet the quantity of smoke it blows diminishes to a large extent when the motor heats up. The exhaust pipe is not oily. I have no way at the moment to ascertain whether it is using oil.
Any one got any ideas?
Paul, Mt Isa.
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Reply By: Peter - Sunday, Jul 27, 2003 at 14:47

Sunday, Jul 27, 2003 at 14:47
Paul,
i have a 1984 troopy that does the same thing. if it has the same condition as mine it wont drink oil except under heavy load. which for an old diesel isnt abnormal.
i am not sure why mine is doing it but have 2 theories based on the facts of the condition of my troopy.
1. my pump is in need of a service.fact. it is overfuelling the vehicle.fact. theory. it is worse when the vehicle is cold.
2. my cylinder rings are worn.fact. theory. this causes more smoke until the vehicle heats up and the engine is running more efficiently and can operate without overfuelling.
the other thing as well is my troopy needs a good long run every so often to clean out the carbon. the longer i leave it the worse the smoke gets.(as do most diesels). if as you say you havent driven it yet i would say it needs a good long run out there in the channel country to clean it out and give it some more grunt.
oh yeah and dont forget the injectors may need replacing.
sorry it doesnt narrow down the causes of your smoke but at least it gives you something to work with.

got the troopy
AnswerID: 26088

Reply By: Paul - Sunday, Jul 27, 2003 at 23:36

Sunday, Jul 27, 2003 at 23:36
Thanks Peter,
I haven't had too much to do with diesels, with a petrol engine the situation is reversed if the engine is worn and the blue smoke worsens when it heats up. In petrol engines if they are burning oil the exhaust pipe is usually pretty wet especially if they are blowing as much smoke as my old Cruiser does at start up sometimes. Also there is usually signs of condensed oil vapour around the engine bay. I've been watching semis and other diesel powered vehicles on the road and invariably when their engines are under load the smoke is black. Perhaps diesel fuel burns with a blue smoke when the engine is cold and there is an excess of it due to faulty injectors? Do you know what is the procedure to have injectors checked, would I remove them and take them to a service centre?
Paul
AnswerID: 26122

Reply By: Peter - Monday, Jul 28, 2003 at 01:00

Monday, Jul 28, 2003 at 01:00
hey paul,
with diesel they blow a black smoke when they are overfuelling.under load as the trucks do or if they have injector or fuel pump problems. it isnt a worry as it is far better for a diesel to overfuel that underfuel. underfuel is evident when you see white smoke.usually occurs when you first start it when the engine is cold.
one thing i didnt mention was you may also have a dirty air filter.that also causes black smoke.oh and dont forget the fuel filter.and finally you may have a tank full of dirty fuel and or old oil.
yes i know so many things that can cause black smoke. i suggest you start with the easy stuff.
i would check and/or change the air filter and fuel filter. give the troopy a run and then fill up.see what happens. then do an oil change and oil filter change. or maybe do them all in one hit. if still black smoke then the injectors would be the next thing to do. its mega expensive. cost around $80 to $100 per injector to overhaul/replace.its a specialist job. diesel needs the injectors serviced/replaced every 100,000 klms or so. so if your troopy hasnt had the injectors done in the last 100,000 may be time to do them. before you do, a cheaper option is to put a good quality injector cleaner in your fuel tank. that can do the trick if the injectors are blocked and may saves you hundreds. as for a good injectore cleaner i am not sure.you would need to ask around.
then finally if you are still getting excess black smoke its time to do the injector pump. kiss goodbye $1000 at least.
that all said, i need to do mine but havent bothered.a bit slack. you should expect some black smoke especially when the engine is cold. and diesels take a good 10 minutes to warm up properly. i feel sorry for those behind me when i drive for the first 10 minutes of the day. they are driving in a mist of black diesel smoke. mind you my pump needs overhauling. everything else has been done over the years.
that all said dont be too fussed.old troopies always blow black smoke.normal wear and tear of the engine ensures that. i find some diesel fuel brands make it worse and some make it hardly noticeable.also the oil you use can play a role.just need to experiment with the fuel in mt isa. As for oil i use either mobil, caltex, shell or ampol. I find they reduce smoke, dont burn much under load and tend to keep oil pressure up and engine temperature down.
so i hope that helps a bit. just one thing. i would strongly suggest that you put a diesel fuel additive in everytime you fill up.one that has a lubricant in it to replace the sulpher that has been removed. prior to 2003 diesel fuel had sulphur to act as a lubricant.(same as lead in leaded fuel).this year diesel formula was changed to low sulpher content.thus no lubricant. for people with post 1994 injector pumps or one that have been rebuilt post 1994 this isnt a problem. for those with pre 1994 pumps the new fuel corrodes the seals in the pump and you have leakage problems. using the additive adds the lubricant ala the stuff they put in leaded vehicles. also the additive is good for safeguarding against dodgy diesel.
anyway i am going on and on and on and on.

go the troopy
AnswerID: 26124

Follow Up By: Paul - Monday, Jul 28, 2003 at 22:54

Monday, Jul 28, 2003 at 22:54
Peter,
I changed the fuel filter, oil etc when I first got the Cruiser and the smoke looks definately blue not black. Probably is worn rings although I can't understand as I mentioned earlier why it doesn't show the other symptoms such as smoking more instead of less when it heats up and so on. By the way, it starts from cold just about straight away. I should get the last problems with it sorted out this weekend and have it on the road in a fortnight or so and hopefully get to the bottom of the problem then. I'll probably have other problems to worry about as well after that like the diff pinion flange nut that I discovered was only finger tight when I replaced the seal. There is no telling what damage has occurred there.
Paul
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FollowupID: 17833

Follow Up By: Peter - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 03:22

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 03:22
paul,
I did some thinking and some research on this and other sites about the smoke. the blue smoke at cold start up is normal for older diesels. just the way they get with age. also diesel fuel is very oily. thus when cold the engine doesnt combust as well as it should and doesnt properly burn off the oil content in the diesel.thus your blue smoke. when the engine heats up burns it all and thus no blue smoke. just black smoke when under load.which is as mentioned before overfuelling.
also if you get heaps of black smoke under load that is injectors etc. do the injectors but the injector pump isnt a "must be done" thing. may be as easy as just adjusting the injector timing and/or the maximum fuel flow screw on the injector pump.wherever that is.
funny you mention the flange nut being loose. i had the same problem. when my rear diff was rebuilt the nut wasnt tightened properly.wasnt cold chiselled. it worked itself loose. i was getting a small clunking noise when i changed gears.just assumed it was normal noise from the tail shaft.
anyway some 100,000 klms later i happened to mention the noise to another mechanic and he had a noisy around and found the loose nut. around 20,000 odd klms later the diff bearing finally packed it in. the bearing noise was way obvious. being away from home i didnt get a chance to fix it for another 5000 klms. the bearings were absolutely rooted.BIG TIME. but the troopy kept going. the old troopies are bullet proof. go on for ever.
so anyway dont stress about the loose nut. you may get many thousands of klms out of the old beast yet.
by the way if you want to check out the old beast check out my internet site.
my site

go the troopy
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FollowupID: 17837

Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 05:57

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 05:57
Paul,

We have a '97 L'cruiser turbo wagon, with 212K clicks on it, and it always blows blue smoke when cold. Bit scary to see, but it stops once the engine has warmed up.

Use Chemtech "Diesel Power" to clean up your injectors, available from George at Bearing Service, in the Isa.

Hooroo...

AnswerID: 26221

Reply By: Paul - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 22:39

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 22:39
Peter,
Funny thing, what you write is exactly what the used car salesman I bought the Cruiser from said, but having the perhaps mistaken belief that if a person in that professions' lips are moving they must be lying I didn't believe a word he said! Just thought, "well here is about six months of weekend work to keep me busy". I'll go back and shake the saleman's hand if once I get the plates on the old girl goes OK. I've still got to figure out why the tail lights don't work & probably a new blinker unit and she should be ready to front up for a RWC. I'll check out your website. Thanks for your help Paul.
Bob,
I'll give that injector stuff a try.
Thanks Paul.
AnswerID: 26300

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