Novated Lease Management costs - what are you paying?
Submitted: Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 13:02
ThreadID:
62013
Views:
5572
Replies:
10
FollowUps:
18
This Thread has been Archived
GUey
Hi folks
My employer's lease provider is quoting a $600 setup fee plus monthly fees of admin $16.50, Management $29.50 & Reporting
Services $12 - ($58 total plus gst). Sounds like a ripoff. What are you currently paying?
Cheers, Mike
Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 13:18
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 13:18
Funny you post this I was right this minute looking at a Delivery Confirmation Docket for a Novated arrangement given to me by someone else.
This is through Fleet Partners and they list Management fee at $19-, Admin Cost $18- and Fuel Management & FBT Reporting at $4-.
Don't know what if any set up fee that may apply.
This was for an employee of the ANZ Bank so they may also have negotiated an arrangement with this company to negate some of the costs???
Hope this helps.
AnswerID:
327080
Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 14:15
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 14:15
Those are monthly fees.
Interest rate is 8.25%
FollowupID:
594260
Reply By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 13:33
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 13:33
Ours is as follows:
Admin fee: $12.69 pre-tax
Vehicle Management Program fee: $3.50 pre-tax
Establishment fee: $6.25 pre-tax
All fees are per fortnight.
The setup fee is a ripoff IMO and seems to work like mortgages etc. They make enough out of the interest etc not to need this amount.
I would be more concerned about what interest rate they are charging at the moment as that seems to be the area that they make money, and one which is not clearly explained IMO.
Hope this helps
Andrew
AnswerID:
327082
Follow Up By: Member - Matt (Perth-WA) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 14:46
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 14:46
Andy isnt your establishiment fee the same as the set-up fee....but charged in one hit where yours is fortnightly?
$6.25x 26 weeks(annually) over 3 years (guessing) = $487.50
Matt.
FollowupID:
594264
Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 15:03
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 15:03
Yeh, i suspect that is the case, over 3 years.
I wonder if it is easier to claim the fee pre-tax this way rather than a lump sum establishment fee.
Still don't believe that it costs $600 to employ imcompetent staff to deal with all the issues to establish the contract.....it is widely known (apparently) that service is poor/slow once signed up.
Andrew
FollowupID:
594267
Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 14:12
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 14:12
Hi Mike,
I reckon I have the same Management company as that is what I am being charged, and yes they are a ripoff. They will also slug you $15/month for their fuel card - that was not shown on their schedule of charges. Lucky for me my employer picked up the charges due to them changing over to this scheme, but you can see where these companies are making money hand over fist once the deal is set up.
Cheers
Captain
AnswerID:
327087
Follow Up By: GUey - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 22:28
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 22:28
Thanks Captain. I asked that question today based on your advice and yes $15/mth. What a con. Covering their costs they say!!! And their higher admin charges .... due to their better service they say (predictable).
Mike
FollowupID:
594361
Reply By: Member - Redbakk (WA) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 14:24
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 14:24
SMB.....set up fee $228
management fee (monthly) $19
AnswerID:
327088
Reply By: tazbaz - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 15:06
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 15:06
Probably the most expensive way of financing a vehicle - the 'loan' of last resort!
AnswerID:
327097
Follow Up By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 15:09
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 15:09
Bollocks.
Like any financial arrangement, it comes down to personal circumstances. In my case, significantly cheaper than a loan and better than using my own money.
Matt.
FollowupID:
594268
Follow Up By: Member - Redbakk (WA) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 15:39
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 15:39
"and better than using my own money."....???????
If it is not your money....then who's is it???????
My incoome is significally less because of the lease!!!!
FollowupID:
594269
Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 16:27
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 16:27
Yep, depends on personal circumstances. In my case a novated lease was more expensive than owning the vehicle privately.
So I never went through with it. I struggle to get 25,000k per year, and the lease company wanted to rip me off everywhere they could.
FollowupID:
594280
Follow Up By: tazbaz - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 18:28
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 18:28
Mat tM from ACT
"bollocks" - a great pommy expression. Do your homework re novated lease. If you think that a lease has (legal) tax benefits then change your accountant. I am an honest one and there are NO tax benefits.
FollowupID:
594302
Follow Up By: Member - Leave_enough_space - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 18:33
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 18:33
Two ells, vicar?
FollowupID:
594303
Follow Up By: Member - Tony B (QLD) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 18:57
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 18:57
TAZBAZ!
Well there is though it is not that simple. The lease comes out pre tax so my income is shown less then I actually earn. Example I may earn $65000k a year but for taxable purposes my income only shows $55000k a year. So I pay less tax thats a fact! Also save GST on my fuel and
services Thats a fact. the only drawback is I have to buy a new or near new car with no deposit and do the 25000k, oh hell what a bummer I will have to travel more!!! Cheers Tony
FollowupID:
594309
Follow Up By: tazbaz - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 19:33
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 19:33
Tony B
If you did your tax properly then the same result except that you would not have to do the k's before a vehicle changeover ie no 'drawback'. If you are in business, have an ABN and are reg for GST then you get the GST back to the extent that the vehicle is used for business. The same concept applies to income tax! And no changeover requirement or advantage in changing over.
tazbaz
FollowupID:
594315
Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 19:57
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 19:57
tazbaz wrote: "If you did your tax properly then the same result except that you would not have to do the k's before a vehicle changeover ie no 'drawback'."
You should talk to my accountant and financial advisor, they say different. How can an individual possibly benefit the same without "salary sacrificing" etc???
As Phil says, and you should know perfectly
well in your line of business, it "depends on personal circumstances". How can you possibly analyse someone's circumstances by reading one paragraph?
Andrew
FollowupID:
594320
Follow Up By: Member - Tony B (QLD) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 20:37
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 20:37
Tabaz. "If you did your tax properly" I see you are not in a position of knowledge. no more needed to be said here. Chow. Tony
FollowupID:
594327
Follow Up By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 21:11
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 21:11
Tazbaz,
Well, you are obviously in the know and able to work out my tax status based on a quick reply.
So what I am doing is illegal? News to my employer, accountant. leasing company and the finance company. Not to mention me!
Best you get that message out to the hundreds of thousands of Australians who use this set up. Some major employers (including large Government departments) who would be interested to learn that the schemes they offer their employees are illegal as
well. Better call Channel 9, have them break the story and lock up half of the Defence Force for starters!
You are an accountant and tell me there are NO legal tax benefits? I'll have to accept your professional opinion. All the same, I will stick with my current accountant if its all the same with you.
Cheers,
Matt.
FollowupID:
594329
Follow Up By: Muddy doe (SA) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 21:29
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 21:29
Salary Sacrificing via a Novated Lease arrangement works best when you spend money that you would otherwise have spent anyway from your normal post tax take-
home pay.
I sacrifice for a Novated Lease on a Prado and it saves me approx $6,000 a year on income tax and GST.
All completely legal and above board.
As to the original question the initial setup fee was $400 in year 1 and the annual fee is $300. These fees are also part of the package so are paid for with pretax dollars.
My $6,000 per annum saving is a direct comparison with buying the same vehicle using a Personal Loan over the same period. The only difference is that at the end of the 5 year period I will still owe a residual of 25% of the original purchase price where with a Personal loan you tend to pay the full amount back. I calculated that this reduces the benefit by around $2,000 a year but I am still in front around $4,000 a year or $20,000 over the life of the lease.
Cheers
Muddy
FollowupID:
594341
Reply By: Member - Michael R (NSW) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 15:09
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 15:09
Hi,
SGFleet (prev SMB) charge me $18 Mgt Fee and Fuel card fee of $2.27 pe month. No upfront fees and I've never seen an estab fee on my previous leases.
However, they did try to take 2 months of salary sacrifice in the first month due to "timing", I changed the vehicle delivery date to avoid this.
Regards,
Michael
AnswerID:
327099
Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 16:21
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 16:21
Hi All
I know of a certain South East Queensland Council, whose Staff
are invited to have Novated Leases, the Council purchases the
vehicles under Local Government Tender, inturn the Staff Members
lease the vehicles at a cheaper rate, they are serviced by the
vehicle supplier at local government rates,and to top things off
they only pay the Local Government Tender Rates for there Fuel
if they fill up at the Council Depots Fueling Facilities, plus they still
get the fuel card for else where, they nominate what extras they
want on there vehicles, all at local government Tender Rates,
and us Rate Payers Subsidise all this.
Cheers
Daza
AnswerID:
327115
Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 16:49
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 16:49
What subsidy Daza???
At the end of the day they are paying for ALL of the costs, albeit at a good price. What costs are the Council paying for?
Andrew
FollowupID:
594285
Follow Up By: Member - Tony B (QLD) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 17:43
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 17:43
Yes I agree, the Rate payers would not beSubsidising any of the lease. The lease may very
well be a good deal for employees but they would be paying for it. Proof would be needed before I bagged the council all the way. Cheers Tony
FollowupID:
594296
Reply By: Member - Tony B (QLD) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 17:46
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 17:46
I also had high fees through SALPAC. You can
check their fees out online. I agree the fees are a rip off for the poor service provided. To cover my lease I had to modify the package myself as their estimates were very poor. Beware not alwys the best for everyone, good if you do the 25000k and wanted a new car. I will never go this way again though. Cheers Tony
AnswerID:
327128
Reply By: GUey - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 22:30
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 22:30
Thanks everyone for your replies. Looks like SMB/SGFleet might be getting the chocolates on this one.
Mike
AnswerID:
327183
Reply By: Trekkie (Member - WA) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 22:47
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 22:47
If you need to, seek advice prior to entering into a novated lease you may need to pay a financial planner or accountant a fee for the independent advice and comparisons.
You should consider 4 options and compare the AFTER TAX income result of each
1) Purchase outright pay cash and no lease
2) Use a line of credit or mortgage and no lease
3) Use a personal loan and no lease
4) Novated lease
Allow fo any "lost opportunity costs"
Benefits will depend on kms travelled each year
Will also depend on the lease term you select and the residual value you select.
Then a lot will depend on the "facility" provided by your employer - some employers stipulate particular "bureau" service providers - some will allow a multitude of choices re financiers, fuel providers, reimbursement etc
It is LEGAL and provided for under the Tax Act
Some people don't know what they are talking about and should not comment (but thats the attraction of this
forum good or bad)
There should be no need to pay a "set up" fee - there are enough fees along the way in the bureau service, the lease costs, the vehicle purchase cost, the insurance etc
Seek professional advice from a competent person
AnswerID:
327185
Follow Up By: Member - Redbakk (WA) - Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 23:09
Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 at 23:09
Thanks Trekkie.........
FollowupID:
594372