Recovery hooks

Submitted: Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 18:20
ThreadID: 6249 Views:1908 Replies:6 FollowUps:17
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Hi

Hoping someone can help out with some advice.

My NM Pajero does not come with proper rated recovery hooks. it does have the welded U supports used as shipping tie downs. However i do have a Sahara Bull bar and winch.

Is there any reason why you couldn't use the winch hook in the same way as you would use a rated recovery hook?

Cheers
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Reply By: Kev - (Cairns,QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 18:26

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 18:26
I wouldn't.

I doubt the winch gears would like the instant stress the snach strap would unload.

And what about at the rear ?

Rated hooks are the go.
AnswerID: 26270

Follow Up By: christu - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 18:31

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 18:31
OK thanks for your response.

I understand that your tow bar (not ball) is good to use as a recovery point.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 17872

Reply By: KG - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 18:59

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 18:59
they tell me that a hayman reese(sp?) hitch is fine to use.... put the pin thru the eye of the snatch strap and off you go. this is what i do... only had to snatch once in anger and it was fine.
if you don't have a hayman reese (i.e. you have a bolt on tongue) you can get a tongue with a fixed loop on it that is designed for recovery work... personally they looked to me like they would get caught up on things as they stick out a bit (i know arb sell them - not sure of $$)

cheers,

KG
AnswerID: 26272

Follow Up By: bruce.h (WA) - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 19:09

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 19:09
Gday kG
we have a letter from hayman reese stating that their tow assembly is in no way rated for snatch recovery, so if you use it you are at risk of be held liable if anything goes wrong, so while they have been used for recovery by heaps of poeple it may be worth a second thought . imho its worth spending the $$ to have a rated hook fitted having had aclose call when a il fitted mount gave way ilearnt that there is no substitute for the proper way hope this is of some help
Regards Bruce
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FollowupID: 17875

Follow Up By: Phil G - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 20:00

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 20:00
Hayman Reece, understandably, take that position so they aren't liable for recovery stuff ups.

Fact is that their towbars are ideal for a rear recovery point because they distribute the load to both sides of the chassis and are usually held on by 8 HT bolts directly to the chassis. Some people argue that you can bend the Hayman Reece Pin, but I'd suggest that is impossible with a stretch device like a snatch strap.

I have a Prado and rated hooks can be bolted straight on to the chassis front and rear, but I still prefer the square hitch at the rear for the reasons above. Its not the strength of the hook that matters here, its the strength of the two bolts and whatever it is bolted to that matters.
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FollowupID: 17881

Follow Up By: Brian - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 18:42

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 18:42
Never just use the pin to hold your snatch strap in the Haymen Reece. If... and it can happen.... the pin bends...just slightly.. you will have a helluva job getting the pin out. I have bolted a tow hook to a spare Haymen Reece tongue, using highest grade high tensile nuts and bolts. I slip it in when I need it, and slip it out when I'm finished!
I always think of what could go wrong with recovery and never take short cuts..... that way I hope to live a little longer!
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FollowupID: 17978

Follow Up By: Phil G - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 20:11

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 20:11
Brian,

I respect your opinion but have to disagree. A hook, attached by two bolts to a tongue, welded to the square tube, and held by the HR pin, has more potentially weak links than a strap attached directly to the pin. Too many chances for a potential missile, and its unnecessary. HR Tongues are built primarily to support a vertical load, and are not rated sufficiently for a longitudinal pull of the magnitude generated by a strap.

Pins don't bend when a snatch strap is used. Pins will bend if someone uses a chain, winch strap or something rigid instead.
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FollowupID: 17988

Follow Up By: bruce.h (WA) - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 20:17

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 20:17
Phil
i have to agree with brian regarding the pins in fact they do bend this i can state from having seen the pin in question bent by a recovery,as i said before if you have ever been on the end of a recovery gone wrong you do everything in your power not to end up their agian, peoples lives are just not worth the risk
Regards Bruce
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FollowupID: 17990

Follow Up By: Brian - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 20:52

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 20:52
Phil G
Just another suggestion......... :-)
I understand your comments here Phil, and maybe another way to get around the pin dilemma is to attach your snatch strap to your HR two bar via a rated bow shackle. I was originally taught this method by the club I belong to. The shackle is attached to the bar so that the threaded "pin" goes down through the top of the shackle, through the bar and through the other side of the shackle. Tighten it finger tight then back off one full turn to prevent the thread binding. Obviuosly the shackle has the eye of the snatch strap through it as well. This is an altrnative to simply using the HR pin to hold your strap. If you can't get the pin out, what do you do with 9 metres of strap behind your truck?.. and if you sacrifice the strap by cutting it free.... what will happen if you get stuck again???
Being relatively new to 4X4 driving, I have tried to learn as much as I can about it..... and share it!!
I ain't trying to say my way is best or anything....

Cheers
Brian
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FollowupID: 17994

Follow Up By: Phil G - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 21:17

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 21:17
Brian,

Nothing like a bit of healthy debate!!! But I'll stick to my pin. I'm an instructor with our State's driver training unit and we advocate the pin inside a square hitch as the safest method. Our club videotaped a demonstration of what damage a shackle can do on the end of a snatch strap and its fairly horrific.

Plenty of ways of doing these things and gladly, many are relatively safe, but I prefer to keep it simple and use a method that I know won't result in a lethal missile. My Prado also has a chassis mounted rated hook at the rear, but I still use the square tow hitch as it distributes the strain evenly across the chassis.
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FollowupID: 17997

Follow Up By: bruce.h (WA) - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 21:29

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 21:29
gee s guys this must make it hard for the novices
it seems that we cant even agree between the state 4wd training course as to this practice,phil just out interest which state are you with
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FollowupID: 18000

Follow Up By: Brian - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 21:32

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 21:32
Fair enough Phil...... I guess we will agree to disagree... it comes down to what we're taught.. and as long as we're doing it "right" then in theory, we should be safe....... we hope!

Cheers
Brian
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FollowupID: 18001

Follow Up By: Brian - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 21:35

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 21:35
Phl, I am in South East Queensland.... where are you??
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FollowupID: 18003

Follow Up By: Phil G - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 21:54

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 21:54
Yes it does make it hard for novices. Problem is theres a lot a heresay, and not much hard science. Its hard enough trying to get info from manufacturers on the rating of their "recovery" points. I'm in SA.
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FollowupID: 18009

Reply By: Matt (W.A.) - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 19:07

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 19:07
christu,
I too have an NM and went thro the same Problem! I was told by ARB Perth that the Tie-Down Hooks on the NM were ample to be used for Recovery! I have also read other Post’s on Pajero 4wd Clubof people using them with no problems I haven’t had to use them as yet but when I do I have a Bridal Arrangement between the 2 points to spread the load and to centre the snatch strap, My suggestion would be to have a look at the above mentioned Site at the posts I have sent and the responses I got.

Use them With Caution and try to limit the amount of resistance before snatching i.e. Dig as much sand out, remove as many logs as you physically an extra few minutes Preparation will go along way.

HTH
Keep It On The Rough Stuff

Matt (W.A.)
AnswerID: 26273

Follow Up By: Matt (W.A.) - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 19:11

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 19:11
P.S.
also think of being recovered backwards as in sand you have already made some tracks to follow! Unless your Tail end Charlie,
I have been recovered backwards with the Reece Hitch and Pin Method a few times no problemo!Keep It On The Rough Stuff

Matt (W.A.)
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FollowupID: 17876

Follow Up By: Member - Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 18:28

Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 18:28
Hope you mean a bridle arrangement, they work reliably to share the load, now Bridal I amnt so sure........

Laterally literalSo many places to go!
So much work to do :0(
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FollowupID: 18080

Reply By: Matt (W.A.) - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 19:20

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 19:20
Bruce,
this is all well and good if you have a Rigid Chassie to bolt recovery hooks to,
In the case of us Paj Owners who actualy take them offroad there arn't a lot of other options that I know of for fixing Recovery Points too even ARB were stuck for Ideas! i was told that it would cost a bom to try to engineer a Solution and then have it fabricated......Blah Blah Blah....this may have been a cop out for this particular Company (No Longer Around)......to say its too hard! any help in this area would be greatfull.
Any Automotive Engineers out there willing to give it a try?Keep It On The Rough Stuff

Matt (W.A.)
AnswerID: 26275

Follow Up By: bruce.h (WA) - Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 00:58

Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 00:58
matt
ah the joys of modern 4wding , i have yet to find a solution to the problem of hooks for the paj,but my advice to you would be to aviod using snatch strap recoveries like the plague i would try everything else posible before i reached for a strap its just not worth the risk.
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FollowupID: 18021

Follow Up By: Matt (W.A.) - Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 08:33

Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 08:33
Cheers Bruce,
it's only been required a couple of times usualy between Wedge and Lancelin! and then i spend a fair bit of time digging, more often than not I'm the Recoverer not the Recoveree.Keep It On The Rough Stuff

Matt (W.A.)
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FollowupID: 18028

Reply By: Member - Paul H - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 21:15

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 at 21:15
Hi,

I'm not sure , but did I hear somewhere that the NM Pajero has, on a couple of occasions, had problems with the body twisting under some recovery situations.
Would this be due to the monocoupe body design. & the absence of a chassis rail to fix an adequate recovery point to?
Just a few things to think about.
If any one knows of this article it would be good to read it & be a bit better informed on the subject.

cheers,

Paul off to googs track & gawler ranges................Sept hol's.
AnswerID: 26289

Reply By: christu - Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 16:16

Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 16:16
Thanks for your views and vigorous debate on the towbar issue.

Did anyone else have any views on the idea of using the winch hook??

Cheers
AnswerID: 26439

Follow Up By: Matt (W.A.) - Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 09:08

Wednesday, Aug 06, 2003 at 09:08
Sorry for getting of the subject,
I wouldn’t use the Winch hook, the hook will be fine (As they are designed for that sort of thing) it’s the Winch Drum, clutch, and also the cable on the drum. By exerting that much force on the cable will force the cable to bite into the existing cable on the drum and make it quite difficult to get the cable out also the clutch will not stand up to the "Explosive" force of the Snatch strap. I wouldn't do it if I were you.

HTHKeep It On The Rough Stuff

Matt (W.A.)
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FollowupID: 18444

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