3.0 LITRE TD PATROL-OILS

Submitted: Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 12:44
ThreadID: 6260 Views:3044 Replies:8 FollowUps:13
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Had an interesting conversation with a Castrol rep re engine failures on early 3.0 litres (gu model).
Apparently truck manufacturers often reduce the sump capacity to an acceptable minimum to lower service costs.
This is a marketing ploy,ours cost less to service than theirs etc.
In the case of the 3 litre,which is a renault truck engine,the sump was to small for the operating conditions and fuel quality in australia.
The lower capacity allowed soot concentration to build up to damaging levels leading to high engine wear and sometimes failure.
The recall in 2000 increased the sump capacity by 2.5 litres,providing more dispersant volume to handle our dirty fuel (compared to european standards).
Some where else on this site it was suggested that 10,000 changes was ok for the updated engine,castrol say that that is not correct and 5,000 changes are required to remove soot accumulation and ensure long engine life.
Castrol recommend their product RX super for this vehicle.
Regards
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Reply By: Simon - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 13:58

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 13:58
Im led to beleive most oil companies recomend 5000km changes for 4x4 type diesels, especialy if most of their trips are less than 20km.
Its not the oil that breaks down but the sumps are to small and cant handle the build up of unburnt fuel, soot ect.
Even short running petrols should be changed earlier than 10000km in a lot of cases.
AnswerID: 26345

Reply By: Andrew (VIC) - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 14:11

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 14:11
I know that Renault owns Nissan but I didn't know that 3 litre is a Renault motor .
You sure that this is correct ?
AnswerID: 26347

Follow Up By: Hugh - Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 01:46

Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 01:46
Without going into too many details, I work in the Auto industry (advanced engine development) and am currently working with both R&N.

Yesterday I was in a meeting with senior N engine engineers and I asked this very question as it has been claimed in various posts that the 3.0l DI engine is a Renault engine. The response was that this engine is purely a Nissan product.

As for the future, N have design responsibility for new gasoline engines and R for diesel, with both companies working closely. As for ownership, R have a 36% stake in N.

Regards,
Hugh
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Reply By: CLIVEB - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 14:51

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 14:51
Based on I believe,may have some changes for australian market.
If any gu owner is concerned whether their sump has been upgraded ring the Nissan tech dept in Melbourne with their VIN number.
Nissan can advise if the work was done before sale or by recall.
(this only applies to first models of course).
Regards
AnswerID: 26349

Reply By: yarda - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 15:42

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 15:42
5k oil and filter changes are pretty much the norm for modern oil burners, if you have a vehicle that you think is marginal in sump capacity you should use a fully synthetic oil to give you a bit of extra insurance. There is also the option of fitting a remote oil filter or oil cooler to give slightly more oil capacity. Brad
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Reply By: Member - Bill- Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 17:45

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 17:45
FWIW Just had my GUIII 3.0Di serciced at Nissan today, they filled it with Castrol GTX 2 20W40 which they told me was a special bulk blend, regular GTX2 is 20W50. Sticker recommends oil again in 5K and filter at 10K.Regds

Bill
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Follow Up By: Phil G - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 21:34

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 21:34
Bill,
Phone up Castrol and get an opinion from them, but it sounds like your dealer has put in the cheapest oil money can buy. I'd think its unsuitable for your vehicle, which I believe should be a 15W40 CF-4.
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Follow Up By: Andrew(WA) - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 21:48

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 21:48
Bill

I'm with Phil on this one...

You should be putting a 15W-40 in the 3.0lt TD's

Get it checked!

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Follow Up By: relaxed QLD - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 22:07

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 22:07
Bill
I'm with the others. In my manual it says 15W-40 for my 3lt GU II. My dealer even uses 15W-40 Castrol magnatec.
I'd be asking questions if I were you.
Relaxed
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Follow Up By: Member - Donald L- Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 22:55

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 at 22:55
Bill,
Castrol is made by contract from other refiners, (BP, Shell, Caltex, Mobil etc) I worked for shell for 25years or so and Valvoline / Mobil oils are my choice.
Ask the Castrol rep the origin of your oil, avoid cocktails & don't change horses mid-stream.
My strong advice to anyone is to change engine oil on a Diesel every 5,000K + oil filter regardless, change air filters as specified and on a needs basis if in the dust a lot to keep the dirt out of the air also & out of the engine. Some may think that it is a bit over the top every 5,000K but I previously owned an old faithfull HJ60 Cruiser Diesel with a 2H motor and we clocked up 300,000K before an overhaul of the donk and there was no appreciable wear on the crank journals and standard bearings were able to be used. I serviced as mentioned above.
Cheers
Donald
Get out there and use it.
Life is too short not to.
All the best...
Donald
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Follow Up By: Member - Bill- Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 13:56

Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 13:56
Thanks for the feedback fellows, your reactions were the same as mine and the oil cost $63.54. At least GTX 2 is CF and 20W40 is kinda close. I'll be dumping it and supplying my own from here on in.Regds

Bill
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Follow Up By: Member - Bill- Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 14:46

Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 14:46
Just rang and spoke to a fellow on the Castrol tech help line. He recommended I use the Magnatec 10W40 which is a CF oil. When I quizzed him about why not to use the dedicated diesel oils like RX Super he said it was because most are CH-4 oils (which it is) and Nissan themselves say to never use CG or higher rating. This it specifically states in the manual. (I was impressed he knew this on the fly). He also said Magnatec had very good diesel performance and was the preference. Interestingly he said there was only one type of GTX2 and it was 20W50, which he thought was too heavy for the 3.0DiRegds

Bill
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Reply By: David N. - Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 01:26

Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 01:26
Don't use anything but a " dedicated" Diesel Oil., eg: RX Super or better.

There is a HUGE argument for going fully synthetic- a good synthetic will give BETTER protection when changed at twice the mileage of mineral oils!
I have used RX Super for many years on my GQ TD42 and no probs, but will be going to fully synthetic next oil change- It is quite simply better in every single respect. (OK- except cost!)
"Oils aint Oils"
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Follow Up By: Matt M - Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 08:22

Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 08:22
*It is quite simply better in every single respect*
Apart from clearance, there are not many engines out there actually designed to operate at synthetic tolerences! When these engines are manufactured they have incorporated max and min tolerences and these do not work well with the Synthetic, they are designed for the mineral oil. The tolerances would be different if the engine was built specifically for Synthetic use.
I would use a synthetic fortified oil, but I drive a turbo oil burner so if Im changing the oil every 5000k, I dont see the point! Ive done 200 000km in my 3.1TD and it is still flying and using no oil whatsoever!!At 5000km the mineral oil never even gets a chance to start breaking down, our problem is the oil carboning up, so Synthetic wont really help will it?
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Follow Up By: Member - Geoff - Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 09:11

Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 09:11
"Oils aint Oils"

I have been using Castrol TXT Softex Plus 5w-30.(not cheap)
The service agents have been using this in the vehicles now for a couple of years without any problems.
Some of the Td5's have done over 200k and are still using this oil with out any appreciatable use or leaks and no turbo problems.
Remember that Landrover Td5's have a centrifugal throw away filter. This contains all the carbon and accumulated metallic debris.
Maybe other vehicle manufacturers should be installing them?.

cheers Geoff.
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Follow Up By: David N. - Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 14:02

Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 14:02
Matt M,
I don't care what engine, clearances or whatever, as long as one uses an appropriate viscosity, synthetic oils are WAY superior. They have better charastertics, as I said, "in every single respect." You can research this on the web at various sites and the synthetic is streets ahead.
A mate has been using them in his trawler diesel- Scania I think- with looong oil change intervals (good bypass filtering and oil analysis) and has well over 26,000 hours on the engine, still going strong. He also uses the SAME oil in his Nissan TD42. The results are quite outstanding.

There are numerous trucks also with incredible mileages using synthetics- It's quite simply a case of "you get what you pay for". And running synthetics does not have to be a hell of a lot dearer as you can extend change intervals quite dramatically as long as your filter is up to the task.

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Follow Up By: Matt M - Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 14:45

Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 14:45
As I said, I change my oil at 5000km as I should, NOT because it the oil has lost its stabilty or lubricity, but because of the CARBON content. When someone designs a filter to allow the carbon to be removed in a small diesel application I may look at using such an expensive oil, allowing for an extended change interval.

Till then Im not going to waste my money because someone is trying to compare a truck/commercial fleet operating interval to my little turbo diesel, chalk and cheese!

If you feel the need to waste your money then please dont let me stop you, it is yours to do with as you please and I wish you all the best with your own vehicle.

Happy driving!

Matt.
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Reply By: tim - Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 09:22

Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 09:22
What is the oil that nissan puts into the 3.0td patrols mine is due now
AnswerID: 26415

Follow Up By: Member - Bill- Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 17:34

Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 17:34
Tim,

See the posts above. Nissan says never go later than CF rating, 10W40 or 15W40 seem to be the preferred weight. Seems like the dealers put in whatever suits them as far as brand.Regds

Bill
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Reply By: brian - Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 21:18

Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 at 21:18
Woops i am the odd one out, my nissan dealer at nowra only changes oil in 3.0 turbos at 10000k not 5000k,i asked him to do it at 5000k but he advised against it.guess i better talk to him again.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bill- Friday, Aug 01, 2003 at 11:31

Friday, Aug 01, 2003 at 11:31
No Brian, he is correct, the ZD30 is a 10K change motor unless in severe conditions. In Europe they let them go 15K. Out of interest, what type and grade of oil is your dealer using? Regds

Bill
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