Fuel Prices, consider this, it's not expensive

Mick,

You nailed it. Once you had a barbie on an old plow disc or the bonnet of an old car, now you can use your barbie to cook for a 5 star hotel.

Have a good one

Yeap, that's it. It's Crap!
With three kids under11, we hear it all the time. So & so has this, a mobile phone, a tv in her room, she is always buying new clothes, why can't I. Jo Blogs has a mini bike.
My answer is; There is only one kid in their family, or he only has one sister or brother. Both their parents work full time, they go to their Grand parents place after school each day because their mum is working.

Than I ask my three, Does so & so have a horse each, do they have a swimming pool that their father built for them, do they have two acres in town to ride their horses on. do they have their own Vegi Garden? Does so & so go camping and see all the wonderful things that you guys see? Answer,No, they sit at home playing their Sony playstations,Then I ask, but who has the most Fun? Who has the best stories at show N tell?
And all three smile.

And that's what it is Micheal, It's Crap that they own.

My parents at my age bought a house and land package for $15,000 which was a years pay.
We now have to pay $500,000 for a similar property which is TEN years pay.
I'd rather have $3/L fuel i think...

Tippa,
That's a fair enough call. about the difference between when your parents bought, to what you have had to pay now. I don't think I would be able to buy into the market now, no matter where atm.
I would hate to think what my kids are going to have to pay for land & house in another 15 odd years time.
Hopefully the decisions I made 10 years ago, will help them then.

Having said that, I don't what to pay $3/L for my diesel.

Just want to apologize for spelling your name wrong Michael.
In the reply to you.
Sorry,

Not having a go at anyone here, just trying to balance things out.
"Expensive" depends upon your disposable income.
If you're a well remunerated CEO then a little thing like fuel probably won't seem expensive to you.
A pensioner on a fixed income might have a different idea.

So what's changed ?

Footy,
It's a long ride from the Womb to the Tomb, it just seems to be a lot more expensive these days.
Seem to have my hand in my pocket a lot more these days. Especially with three kids. Excursions, Sports days, Mufti day donations, School does not provide a bus, so the Parents drive them 'Always seems to be the same ones helping'.

1985, 19, Single, renting, Friday pay day. Yellow envelope with $325 cach, the tax was already taken out, Drive the old Fairlane to the servo, fill up, Packet of Wini Blues, pay my A/C, go for a quick surf.
Go make myself comfortable at the bar at the local and settle in for Friday arvo happy hour. Get Pizza, listen to the band, go home rollin drunk at 10 pm. Hadn't spent $60 out of my pay yet.
Pay rent, Food for the week, a couple beers through the week, Spend some money on the car/clothes, the girlfriend, And I could bank near $50 a week.

So what's changed ?

Kids are more expensive Footy.
IMO

Yes Footloose .... theres a big difference between the airy fairy, statistical , average wage ... and the average wage the average worker gets.


Value for dollar, Hairs ... thats what changed. Prices and wages have gone up but the buying power of your dollar is much reduced.

Have a 3rd generation boilermaker spending the same percentage of his income on public school costs as what my parents spent on me for boarding school.

Mufti day donations . Its a gold coin donation isnt it ?

Troopyman, Yes it is a Gold coin donation, it was used as an example, Three kids x $1 or $2 = $3 or $6 a throw, now it's not just once or twice a year, it's every term and they have other donations asks through out each term as well.
We also send cooking twice a term for the canteen which can cost some $10 each time.
P & C run a few things through the year as well, which they ask for Donations of goods or the Cooking of cakes,etc for other fundraising events that the State government has come up short of funding.

Our life style makes up for more than enough in the short fall of wages.
We get by. But we have to watch were each and every cent goes.

Edu ma cation costs at public schools are still reasonable....if you compare them to the cost of putting your 3 children through the Private School system.
Here's the rub. You are actually paying for the kids education TWICE. Once out of your pockets and once out of your taxes to help fund the Private school system. You have NO choice in the matter. The Govt taketh and the Govt bestows.
AFAIK In some parts of the US you can decide where your education taxes go, to the private or state systems.
Now I have Private Health Insurance, always have had. Keeps me broke, but I CHOSE to have the increasing payments and HUGE Gap payments necessary. That's a personal choice.
But you and I have very little say on where our education taxes are spent.
We are also paying for Federal and state education departments. A huge duplication and waste of taxpayers money.

Is fuel expensive ? I believe that for many Australians it is.
But according to some here, it's probably too cheap. (G'Day Landy)
How can I have it so wrong ?
Even the Federal Opposition appears to think that fuel is too expensive !
Why is fuel cost such a sensitive matter?
Perhaps because the "average Australian has never been better off "
Now where have I heard that before ?

Agreed Footloose ... the cost of private schooling is outlandish today .... I was referring to the percentage of the pay packet allocated though ... not the actual dollars.

The percentage of a paypacket needed to purchase items today is what has increased - not just the prices and wages.

In regard to funding for private schools ... It is much less than the cost of accommodating those students in public schools ... thats why its done.

a). Closed rural schools would have to be reopened / rebuilt / restaffed and transport provided.

b). Existing schools would have to be expanded in terms of land, buildings, facilities and staff.

Its actually a cost cutting exercise. Lets the Govt spend money on the important things like higher public service wages and retirement benefits.

Hi Footy

In context, a reasonable argument could be made for it. But I was always going to be lead off for a bollicking for making the comment...

I'll defend the argument though....

Hi Oz Troopy, I have to disagree that State Aid is cheaper than Public Education. I could start talking about unit comparison costs and the history of state aid etc but it would be too far off topic and boring to many.
But in saying that I note that some parents re pulling their kids out of the private system and back into state schools. This has caused a reduction in funding etc in some private schools, but little if any expansion in public school facilities. State Govts are reluctant to spend money on public education. (even if much of it is tied funds from the Commonwealth).
Anyway...
Landy, maybe you're correct. But in a country that breathes fuel consumption for it's very existence, perhaps the logic and economics of the situation might be tempered with some sort of national interest.
Where are our national reserves, for example?
Why aren't we world leaders in the usage of alternative power sources?
How much have we sunk into developing vehicles that don't rely on fossil fuels ?
I would argue that lack of large scale funding of such things have shown a philosophical basis for policy direction that has been largely
at odds with the Average Australians intelligence for some time.

To put it bluntly, the previous Bogans in the Govt have treated the rest of us as Bogans. What was that policy again ? A cash cow at every fuel bowser ?
Will the current mob do any better ?
I am waiting to hear some hapless Minister talking about "broadening the tax base" (getting a bigger hand in your pocket).

At this stage I reckon that the jury is still out.

Hi Footy…….

Overwhelming everyone will welcome a lower fuel price, but one downside is that at $1.00 per litre and below the development of alternative fuel sources will be shelved and the quest for fuel efficient cars will diminish. We have seen this in the past, most notably in the 1980/1990s.

And as evidence; you need look no further than Brazil, the world’s top ethanol exporter, to see the impact a lower oil price is having the expansion of ethanol as an alternative fuel. Investment has slowed dramatically in recent times.

That is the problem with oil (refined petroleum products); a lower price will equal greater consumption of what is a finite resource; eventually there will be a supply/demand imbalance leading to a massive change in the price structure of oil.

This is a separate issue to the usual cry that we are paying too much for petroleum products mind you, but it becomes a ‘circular argument’ eventually.

. . or how many don't care that Diesel is so much dearer than petrol because they can get the Govt Diesel Subsidy.

Of course, there is always the alternative that will fix the 'greed' problem. State run enterprises, similar to the China and Russian models. Mind you wouldn't need to worry about the price of diesel under such a model - you most likely wouldn't own a four-wheel drive or enjoy the freedom to travel as you please.

Be careful of what you wish for, the price fluctuations could easily be ironed out at the retail level by removing the marketing discounts applied to ULP - then you'd pay full price everyday. How would that be a better outcome?

ULP, diesel, and oil are all freely traded commodities if they weren't you most likely would not be able to pull up at a service station as and when you pleased to fill up your vehicle.

The arguments you are using are at a very high level and pose the question of whether we want a free and open economy or we want a closed one like Russia and China. The greed issue isn't limited to oil/fuel.

But what are your practical and workable solutions. Not winding you up here as I am open to understanding other views......

Cheers.....The Landy

Landy , seems here we go again , give it a rest , not communist or a closed economy , just a statement of fact that fuel is the ONLY commodity with a wholesale and retail price variation on a daily often hourly basis ,,, as I put forth in a previous thread try to do the same with milk or bread and see what would happen ,, no one would stand for it so why should we allow fuel to do as it does , personally I coundnt care less if fuel costs me .60c per lt or $2.60 per lt as long as was a CONSISTANT price.

Axel

Just responding to the issues you raise. I trade currencies for a living and they go up and down all day long. Go to the fruit markets, you’ll find that fruit and vegetable prices go up and down, day in, day out.

As usual the fuel issue is raised, people vent their anger and say they are being ripped off, but ask them to quantify it and they can’t. If you can’t put some numbers behind the argument, how do you know if you are being ripped off? Give some quantifiable answers that doesn’t suit the arguments of the masses and you’ll be shouted down; doesn’t change the reality…

I’m happy to leave it there, but more than happy to supply you with factual information anytime if you want it.

Cheers
Landy

Landy , for some odd reason you cant get the gist of the problem that yoyo fuel priceing creates ,, as you say fruit and veg prices go up and go down , but nowwhere does milk or any other staple vary from $50 per unit of measure to $150 per unit of measure in a period of 2-3 mths or less on a basis like oil does ,, do some sums , by rights oil is now 2/3ds cheaper that 2mths ago , ergo the price at retail level should be 2/3rds less ,, go on all you like about currency fluctuations , that is another whole story ,, the powers that be can "print "all the currency they like ever since the gold standard flew out the window ,,,, no more....

I understand fully what you are saying, but what remedy do you propose as currently it is freely traded and the market determines the price.

Mind you milk doesn't turn the wheels of industry, and its demand is not in the same league as oil. Perhaps that is why you don't get the fluctuations.

However, your argument that oil is 2/3rd lower so therefore retail fuel prices should be 2/3rds lower is totally flawed (if you do the sums!). The currency has lost 30% during the same period for a start, and there are other pricing components that change and have an influence on the price of a barrel of crude being converted into petroleum products.

Other people can argue the merits of changing the way oil is traded. But I do recommend that you look further into how petroleum products are priced...

Perhaps we should leave it at this point, I've highlighted the issues and you, rightly so, have expressed concerns over the way oil is traded and the impact price fluctuations have on our daily lives.

Good luck, and if you're out and about I'd be happy to buy you a beer!

Cheers
Landy

The Newell Hwy is not the best travel route at the moment if you want fuel less than $1.50. Cant wait for those tankers full of cheaper fuel to get here .... pffft.

Hi Cram,

I agree with you. Also as others have said it seems to be the percentage of income needed to get by is a lot higher, even when we forget the non-essential things like flat screen tv and ipods etc. Other things have become essential like internet access, website, mobile phone.... how can you survive in the business world these days without these things? Two vehicles because we both work and have to pick up kids etc.