Look out camels !!!

Submitted: Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 17:41
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 18:23

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 18:23
I agree with seriously culling or eliminating all ferels in the wild, camels included, but harvesting them in the desert would mostly cause more damage that the camels cause, except on the fringes and roads. They should be shot or poisened from the air and left to rot IMHO.

Cheers,
Peter
AnswerID: 342601

Follow Up By: Rolly - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:26

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:26
Sorry, Peter, but that is total nonsense.
Perhaps you should do some serious study into the matter before you make pronouncements on topics on which you have little or no knowledge.
Hard hoofed animals have done inestimable damage to the natural environment since they were introduced by white settlers only 320 years ago.
Generally speaking, the introduction of European farming and "naturalisation" practices soon afterwards has made vast areas of the continent unviable for further food production.
And it continues to do so.

P.S. The word is 'feral'.
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:24

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:24
Sorry, Rolly, but aside from my lousey spelling/typing, which specific bit of my post did you find so objectionable?

Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: Rolly - Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:24

Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:24
The bit about ....."harvesting them in the desert would mostly cause more damage that the camels cause,....."
You've got to see it to believe it.
The damage caused by hard hoofed cattle, goats, pigs and sheep is possibly 10x worse though.

I re-read my bit again and I apologise for coming across so abruptly.
A bad habit of mine, especially on subjects close to my heart.
*Please* promise to never get me wound up on the injustices and hypocrisies of religion, politics and commerce.
Not never, Ever. :(
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 13:22

Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 13:22
Too expensive to cull from the air ....

It should be a genocide from the ground. Close areas off and class them as public firing ranges for time period. Much more cost effective to have a couple of police officers as overseers and let the public deal with the ferals.
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 21:27

Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 21:27
Rolly, no appology required.
A bit more passion about these things will be needed before most see need for ANY solution.
And I have seen it.
I also remember following wheel tracks across the Nullarbor that a single vehicle had made over 10 years earlier.
I don't drive "off road", nor should others, and harvesting camels from the ground really bothers me in terms of the damage caused by heavy vehicles that are 'uncontrolled'.
Let the sporting shooters do what they will, but keep them on the roads and tracks. They will only get a tiny %.
Do it from the air, I reccon, shoot? bait? control the water supplies? don't know how, just do it!

Cheers,
Peter.
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Reply By: 96 GXL 80 series - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:13

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:13
Eat a camel today, I've done it," says Professor Murray McGregor, co-author of a three-year study on the humpbacked pests presented to the government last month.

You wouldn't want to feed the Professor to often if he eats a came at each sitting.

He would have a Hump for a stomach hihi
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Follow Up By: 96 GXL 80 series - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:14

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:14
Camel, it should be.
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:18

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:18
He's be a double humped professor. Or perhaps the professor of Notre Dame ?
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Reply By: Member - Footloose - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:16

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:16
Have you ever smelled feral camels from close up? There's no way known that I'd actually eat them ! That smell would be in my nostrils every time I saw camel as food.
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:25

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:25
And cattle, sheep, pigs, etc smell that much better ?????????

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Follow Up By: darrell.QLD - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:25

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:25
Footy,i agree ,they stink big time!!!
Ive never seen "camel damage" in the outback......
I wonder if the so called profeser has....
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:27

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:27
One might say that the camel has somewhat of a distinctive smell....so whilst they might not smell any better, they do smell different.
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Follow Up By: Rolly - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:36

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:36
Perhaps you haven't been looking hard enough, darell.QLD.
There are plenty of professors (so-called and accredited) who have given of their own time and effort to studying the deleterious effects of a whole gamut of introduced species. What they have reported is not happy reading.
Get yourself to a decent library or contribute to any of the on-line scientific sources and read up on it.
It's enough to make an old bushie cry.
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Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:09

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:09
Yes, the centre for desert knowledge handed the Govt a paper on camel damage. Quite illuminating, but one has to wonder about their motives.
But
The good prof will get a lot of support I imagine.
Personally, might I suggest that the answer to ecological problems shouldn't always start with eating the perpetrator. Surely we can do better than that!
I'm sure that if we supplied "Prof Footy" with enough of a grant, he'd be able to supply the Govt with another large report on what needs to be done. :)))))))))
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Follow Up By: darrell.QLD - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:48

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:48
Rollly,for a start i am one of them "old bushies"
Spent the better part of my life on stations mustering
scrubber cattle...i seen a lot of damage done to crops
river banks and roads ,done by pigs ,feral cattle ,and brumbies..
After it rained you would not even know they were there...
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Follow Up By: Rolly - Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:52

Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:52
Darrell,
Isn't soil erosion a major problem throughout Australia?
After the rain you can't *see* that damage done unless you have before and after comparisions.
Over a period not much over 100 years there are huge areas of the bush that are now no longer able to support even 100th part of the stocking levels previously attained.
Australia is the world's number one for soil degradation and extinction of species.
Researchers are constantly finding evidence of species extinguished relatively recently that were previously unknown and therefore never studied.
Most extinctions occur as the result of degradation of habitat.
And no, I am not a leftist "greeny". Just someone who is vociferously opposed to bull bleep from all quarters.
I rest my case and will have no more to say on the subject.
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Follow Up By: Rolly - Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:56

Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:56
Interesting "bleep" substituted for a proper, if somewhat crude, noun.
Viva the PC police.
Censorship rules. OK ?
Puerile.
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Reply By: Member - Stuart W (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:29

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:29
I ate a camel stew in Syria and it was quite nice. Was probably a farmed camel. I'll go with footy on the stench of the feral ones.
Stuart.
AnswerID: 342614

Follow Up By: Member - Footloose - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:59

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 19:59
I see feral camels as large cockroaches! And I don't eat cockroach. LOL
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Reply By: Member - Stuart W (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:06

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:06
If I was hungry I'd eat a cockroach. Only if it was seasoned nicely.
Stuart.
AnswerID: 342619

Follow Up By: Rolly - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:43

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:43
Deep fried and chocolate coated for me, please.
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Reply By: Member - Mick O (VIC) - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:06

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:06
Food production alone would only account for a minimal number. The only Australian abattoir that processes camel for the table does less than 300 animals a year. The current camel population in Australia of a million (and believed to be understated) will double within the next 10 years. The amount of damage they do far outweighs donkeys, horses and goats. They are causing the regional extinction of some species of flora and monopolise and consume natural water sources that would normally be used by the native wildlife knocking them out of the equation as well.

The research by the CSIRO says that a cull of at least 400,000 camels is needed and that means shooting them just as they do with the other ferals. A very expensive operation. One of the suggestions was to pay local aboriginal communities in the west and NT to introduce supervised culling programs in their lands. There's a bloody lot of them out there let me tell you.

Mick
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AnswerID: 342620

Reply By: Rick (S.A.) - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:43

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:43
I tried to purchase camel meat on Friday in Adelaide's Central Market. That location is arguably the best spot to source food of any variety in the state.

It was not available, and the stall holder could not/would not tell me where I could go to procure it.

Do YOU know where I can buy some?

I settled for goat meat, which we roasted that night. At that particular stall, there were many other meats, including crocodile, for sale.

Pig, chook, kangaroo, goat, sheep, beef, camel, what's the diff?? All can be yummy.

Cheers
AnswerID: 342625

Follow Up By: Top End Explorer Tours - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 21:34

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 21:34
Camel Meat In Adelaide.

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Follow Up By: Rolly - Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:38

Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:38
I would debate the claim: ...." No other introduced species has so readily thrived in the tough Australian Landscape with such minimal effect on the environment."
There is are a lot of studies that indicate quite the opposite.
My own "first-hand" experience is of 20 years ago and is possibly considerably out of date; but even then the loss of many species of native flora and fauna was becoming quite evident consequential upon over grazing by camels resulting in loss of food for the animals and shade/moisture for smaller plants.
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Reply By: Willem - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:56

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 20:56
I agree with this statement

"Given the difficulties, it seems that kangaroos and camels will not become a staple of the Australian diet any time soon and environmentalists will have to look elsewhere for solutions to the planet's problems"

In the end it has to be a viable proposition.


Cheers
AnswerID: 342628

Follow Up By: Member - Mal and Di (SA) - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 22:13

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 22:13
Willem
Until I enlarged your photo I thought you were having a lend of us!
Cheers.
M.
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Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 22:20

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 22:20
Darrell,

I've eaten a Camel steak in the Alice, & I'd defy anyone to tell the difference from beef. It even looked like a piece of bovine sirloin.

We've got some camels here in one paddock, & they've doubled their numbers over the past 20 years....from 3 up to 6. LOL

As for aerial shooting, this would raise a heap of problems. Remember the proposed brumby shoot in one of the National parks. People were getting so upset, I thought they'd start slitting their wrists.

The cost could be prohibitive too, on a large scale. Last time I looked, a 2 place helicopter (Robinson R22), costs a bit over $400/Hr. wet. A 4 place machine would be double this amount I'd say. The marksmen involved would need to be shooting a lot of camels in an hour to "pay" for the helicopter. Indiscriminate shooting of any camels would reach the ears of the sensationalism journos before too long too. More drama.

The slaughter of camels for meat would be confined to areas easy to muster, & within a profitable distance from meatworks.

I feel that the camel problem will go the way of the Murray-Darling basin. Don't do anything until it is too late, and then try to fix everything with a fistful of dollars, and they can't work out why it costs so bloody much!

Some of us retirees might be able to go into that country, camp for weeks, and do the job......expenses paid of course.

Regards,
Bob.
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Can't remember most of it.

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AnswerID: 342638

Follow Up By: Rolly - Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 23:19

Sunday, Jan 04, 2009 at 23:19
"Some of us retirees might be able to go into that country, camp for weeks, and do the job......expenses paid of course."

As sensible a use of human resources as I've heard in along time.
Combine it with Indigenous expertise and the problem could be fixed in a few years.
An Halal abattoir and a biltong factory could also provide a possible export trade.
It might be worth the authorities employing someone with the capacity for a bit of lateral thinking to have a good hard look at it.
There's already a small but steady trade in the export of racing camels to arabic nations.
Like "Coals to Newcastle".
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:37

Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:37
Way too sensible so it will never work! Count me in if it ever gets legs though. There is just a little too much lefty over sensitivities to ensure this will remain a government and taxpayer problem for a long time yet. Maybe the sub prime crisis might deflate a lump or two as there is not enough taxpayer dollars available to eradicate any feral pest. I can't see any government spending in this area whilst service remain standard and lets not forget things like education quality where the nation has taken a pounding.

Kind regards
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Follow Up By: Rolly - Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:29

Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:29
Careful with the word "lefty", Beatit.
Uncle Joe Stalin was a lefty.
Not much by the way of super-sensibility there! :D
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:33

Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:33
G'day Rolly,

I'm talking about the contemporary type! If Uncle Joe was still around we could have named these humped creatures either Bolshevics or capitalists and that would have taken care of our pests.

Kind regards
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FollowupID: 610388

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 13:15

Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 13:15
Indigenous expertise ... Rolly ????????

I had access to a taxpayer funded cattle property in NT years ago.

Had NO cattle on it ... over run with donkeys ... no culled donkeys to be seen ... all ammunition was expended providing ventilation holes in the buildings.

Didnt even know know about the art / burial sites etc that were located no more than 5 miles from the camp - too hard to get a vehicle there I suppose.

Today ... check out constant Land Council mismanagement.

Give them credit where its due ... not as a presumed expectance as is politically required today.
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Follow Up By: Rolly - Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 13:36

Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 13:36
Point taken, OzTroopy.
Finding the expertise is the real difficulty.
It *is* out there and gradually being utilised.
Much of the problem emanates from government bureaucracies and their political masters not having the slightest idea of what it is that they are actually dealing with.
None of them have any direct experience of the relities of the way of life of the multitude of aboriginal traditions nor of the devastating effect that the failed attempts to "civilise" these peoples has had on their cultures.
We are governed by a metrocentric mindset and all the worse for it.
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Reply By: OzTroopy - Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 13:03

Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 13:03
What a lot of fuss and bother ... and in Australia - a modern multicultural society known for its tolerance of others ... tsk tsk.

Whats wrong with having a few camels, canetoads, donkeys, cats, water buffaloe, goats, deer, dogs, pigs, alligators and carp ... living in the aust. wild.
AnswerID: 342711

Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 17:56

Monday, Jan 05, 2009 at 17:56
Gday,
I dont think there is one solution for every situation.
From what I hear, When the station owners try shooting out their own properties the camels keep walking through the fences from the next property.
A lot of the properties are aboriginal communities. So why not work for the dole programs, camel mustering and slaughtering programs.
People I know who have let shooters in have been disgusted with the amount of wounded camels wandering around after the cowboys have gone out and had their fun. They are now very hesitant as to who they let in as they have stuffed it for the sensible shooter.
The gov could offer grants to Stations to adapt yards etc to make export viable and shoot the crap out of the ones out in the sticks too far.
Either way...while the Gov. continue to sit on their hands and do study after study to keep the greenies happy the problem only gets bigger and becomes more expensive.
They need to act quickly and keep on top of it.

Just my thoughts

Cheers
Hairy
AnswerID: 342761

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