4wd's may need chains on ski resorts soon, even Hummers
Submitted: Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 16:05
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bucky00
Hi everyone
I live fairly close to the
Lake Mountain ski resort in Victoria and a friend from a ski
shop told me that the
Lake Mountain bosses have got a bit of a problem.
These days, there’s so many different AWD (all wheel drive) and 4wd cars and at the moment, you don’t need chains even if you’ve got an AWD, but there’s still a lot of AWD cars that can’t handle the snow and ice, like Subaru Impreza’s. They’ve considered saying that AWD cars need chains and 4wd cars don’t, but there’s an awful lot of AWD cars that the manufacturers have put 4wd on, like the old Subaru’s, the RAV 4 says, ‘Full time 4wd,” all over it, that sort of thing and a lot of people with AWD cars like to say that they’ve got 4wd cars, because they’ve got drive going to 4 wheels. When the snow and ice is bad, they’re always getting people running off the road, getting stuck and accidents to.
With this problem, they’re considering making it compulsory for everyone to have chains, even if you’ve got a Hummer. I heard a while ago that Mt Buller was thinking about the same thing, but with all the fancy legal stuff, they couldn’t. I’ve been up to
Lake Mountain in a Subaru Impreza before, and not only did I put chains on the front and rear, I let the tyres down and if I go there in my GQ, seen as I don’t have to worry about popping a tyre at low speeds on bitumen with a bit of snow, I let my tyres right down to about 10 PSI.
Hopefully it doesn't go ahead and if it does, hopefully it's just
Lake Mountain and not the others
Reply By: Crackles - Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 17:21
Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 17:21
Any 4x4 or AWD that relies on traction control to engage all four wheels should fit chains as a precaution as most systems get confused when wheels start to spin applying the brakes to each in turn eventually running out of power. I have a video of a twin turbo V8 diesel Range Rover in snow under full acceleration run out of power as the traction control applied the brakes! Not until the system was turned off (something many brands can't do) did it get up the
hill. Likewise any 4x4 that runs road pattern tyres should also fit chains as they may be able to get going but would have no better chance of stopping in an emergency than a 2WD.
I know Mt Buller were looking at having AWD's fit chains at the same time as 2WD's but with the endless variety of 4x4 & traction systems it possibly all got too hard.
I have my doubts letting your tyres down to 10 PSI to drive up to Alpine resorts serves any real benefit. Those I know that live on the mountains certainly don't drop them below 25 instead choosing to fit relatively narrow tyres with a fine all terrain pattern to bite into the snow & ice instead of floating on top. 8 to 10 PSI I have found is only required for deep snow (Over 500mm) when you need the car to sit up on top.
Cheers Craig................
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: bucky00 - Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 17:28
Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 17:28
I don't know who to believe on the smaller footprint dig down theory or the bigger footprint better traction and buoyancy theory, I'll consider what you said, thanks. I asked a four wheel driver trainer a year or so ago, and he told me right down is better.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stuart W (NSW) - Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 17:44
Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 17:44
If you watch the World rally cars on the snow they go for the skinny tyres.
Stuart
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Follow Up By: bucky00 - Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 17:49
Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 17:49
Thanks guys, I'll give it a try having them a little higher if you think so.
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 18:08
Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 18:08
In fresh snow lower tyre pressures can give increased traction but on compacted snow or ice (Alpine resort roads) a higher pressure is better & possibly a reason why one rarely sees anyone (including locals) ever reduce tyre pressures on a snow covered sealed road.
Depending on the tyre type (& if bead lockers are fitted) 15 psi is generally as low as I'd go offroad in snow except of course as mentioned above when it's very deep which requires floatation.
Below is a 3 tonne Cruiser at 8 psi sitting on 1.5 metres of snow.
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Follow Up By: bucky00 - Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 18:15
Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 18:15
Thanks for your advice, I'll give it a try. I just thought a four wheel driver trainer would know, and that's why the once I went there in my car, I had them at 10 PSI on my 285/75/16 BFG Muds. I confirmed with him that it was ice and snow, not just snow and he said both.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 19:29
Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 19:29
When using chains I would NOT reduce tyre pressure as I want the chains to be tight. Flexing tyres lead to chains flaying around and could take out brake lines. Let the chains do the griping and not the tyres would be my advice.
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 19:52
Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 19:52
"I want the chains to be tight"
I was taught that after fitting your chains you should be able to just slide your hand under the cross links, (neither tight nor loose) this way each time the chain comes around the snow & ice is flicked off avoiding any build up. Appears nothing is black & white when it come to snow driving with many theories floating around :-)
Cheers Craig......
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Reply By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 21:33
Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 21:33
I don't mean to sound cocky here, but in a previous life, I spent about 10-12 weeks of the year for 5 years straight in winter camped in the snow in the High Country, around the
Licola, Snowy Plains area and I'm of the variety that carries chains REGARDLESS.
On the Tamboritha Rd one year the road iced over in one shortish downhill section very badly and it would not have mattered what sort of tyres you had, there was NO traction. I know this as I came down the road at a VERY slow pace, using the engine braking of the diesel, got down to about 5kph, but could not stop. The troopy was just continually (slowly) sliding. It felt quite wierd and like slow motion. I had absolutely no control and ended up 'bumping' another car that had slid off into the ditch on the side of the road.
Image Could Not Be Found
Anyone who doesn't carry chains into alpine areas, "because they have a 4WD" is fooling themselves or has little real experience. In my opinion, it is academic whether it is the law or not, chains SHOULD be carried in these sorts of conditions as the weather can change very quickly causing very strange road conditions.
I currently have 2 sets of chains which get carried into the high country whenever I go there, summer of winter. Not often needed, but when they are.....
well.... say no more.
Like most, I hate fitting the wretched things, but it's better than the alternative.
Cheers,
Mark
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 21:38
Tuesday, Jan 06, 2009 at 21:38
A Summer Photo at the Arbuckle Ski Loop in December.........
Image Could Not Be Found
Cheers,
Mark
Ps Sorry 'bout the ugly mug...
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Follow Up By: Wazza - (Vic) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 23:04
Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 23:04
Mark,
Would not have mattered what tyres you had on trying to look out that windscreen. Haha.
Wazza.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 23:50
Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 23:50
Would you believe there was a solar panel on the windscreen at the time....probably not doing too much I imagine!??!?!?
Cheers,
Mark
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