Oils and Lubes Feedback

Submitted: Friday, Jan 09, 2009 at 22:39

ThreadID: 64972 Views:5806 Replies:6 FollowUps:21

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Oils and Lubes

Whether you drive an old or a new vehicle, oils and lubricants for your engine, diff and gearbox are critical factors affecting performance and also your running costs.

Member - Raymond H (VIC)

Can somebody tell me some qualified information about adding Teflon (Nulon/Slick 50) to engine, diff, transmission/gearbox please? There appear to be two main opinions; 'great stuff' and 'it will kill your engine'. I'm both confused and curious at the same time.
This is my first input, being a newbie and towing a pop top behind a Falcon AU111 with 160,000 on the clock. I'd like to double those Ks, which kindles the interest in oil additives.
Happy 2009, RaymondH

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Reply By: Ianw - Friday, Jan 09, 2009 at 23:49

Friday, Jan 09, 2009 at 23:49

About 10 yrs ago I treated the old 90 Falcon with slick 50. Thought it might stop the tappets ticking. It didn't. But it did increase fuel economy from 28mpg to 35mpg (highway) and lowered the temp gauge a little. Traded it in at 330000 cos the gearbox overheated for the second time. Should have treated that too I guess.

Ian

AnswerID: 343506

Follow Up By: Off-track - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 00:08

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 00:08

I dont have qualified advice or knowledge of teflon additives but I have used it in cars and bikes. I once had an old CR125 motocrosser that I added Slick50 to and the effects were obvious and immediate. From the minute it was added it ran much smoother and idled a lot higher which required adjusting the carby. I was pretty impressed.

That's all I have, sorry :-)

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Follow Up By: Member - Raymond H (VIC) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 17:29

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 17:29

Thanks Off-Track and all the others who responded.

Regarding the legal problems for Slick 50, my view is that if the advertising is deceitful/un-thrthful in some way then they need to be brought to book. On the other hand, I can understand the oil companies looking for a chink to bring down a better product, I have personal experience with that happening which is not for print here.

The personal testimonies are very powerful for this fellah, so I'm going to continue using Nulon in everything, HRP10, filter and oil changes in accordance with the manual, plus extra transmission fluid changes after long pop-top towing excursions. Those precautions should give me some extra protection and reduce the chance of a mechanical failure for many Km to come.

I hope this response goes to all who gave their input (it's my first go at this). I am encouraged by you all and more confident to continue using teflon.

May God bless you with big hearts, fat wallets and lotsa love,
Raymond

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Reply By: Member - Malcolm C (QLD) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 00:57

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 00:57

I'm much in the same boat as Raymond. Nulon??

FYI Rebuild of my ZD30 is progressing well. Tappet Cover, manifolds and Turbo went back on today.

I bought 2 x 10 litre packs of Nulon 15-40W from SC when they were on special.

That's enough for the initial fill and the 1000km service.

Anybody using this stuff? Any comments?

TIA

Malcolm

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Follow Up By: Peter 2 - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 07:46

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 07:46

I have always been under the impression that new and rebuilt engines should always run normal oil for at least the first 10k to allow the rings etc to bed in, running slippery oils first up stops the bedding in and the engine will always use oil.

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Follow Up By: Member - Malcolm C (QLD) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 10:57

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 10:57

Thanks for that advice Peter

I'll need to investigate further.

Anybody else want to comment on it?

Malcolm

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Follow Up By: Member - Raymond H (VIC) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 17:33

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 17:33

Thanks Malcolm. My reply went to Off-Track for everybody.
Raymond

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Follow Up By: Member - 120scruiser (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 22:09

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 22:09

I agree with Peter 2. I am a qualified mechanic and have been for 20 years. Every reco engine I fitted had stickers placed on them "do not use friction modified or synthetic oils in first 1000 km bedding in time"
Just plain old mineral oil will do the job.
Make sure in the ZD30 you use the correct 10w/40 grade.
Scott

FollowupID: 611452

Reply By: 96 GXL 80 series - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 07:06

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 07:06

On all my cars I have added Nulon E-20 at every oil change to engine.
They always seem to idle and run smoother.

Never had any issues.

AnswerID: 343517

Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 07:09

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 07:09

Giday Ray,

About 2 years ago I was working on a property owned by a senior mechanic employed by Ford Performance Vehicles.

He was a car fanatic, as I am, and it didnt take long to drop tools and start talking cars [especially Fords].

He was a keen advocate of Slick 50, which he used on his, his wifes and his project vehicle, [300 hp BDA Escort].

He wasnt too sure on the Nulon product as he hadnt researched or used it.

Shortly afterwards I gave Slick 50 a go, and although it didnt turn the old Nissan into a rocket ship, it did run a lot smoother and seemed to rev out a lot better.

Cheers......Lionel.

AnswerID: 343518

Reply By: Robin Miller - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 07:32

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 07:32

Hi Raymond

Haven't heard that name for a while, I thought they had been sued out of town.

My advice is to just use a good oil like mobil 1.

See also other exploroz threads like 6772.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Federal Trade Commission has charged Quaker State - Slick 50, Inc., the manufacturer of Slick 50, the best-selling auto engine treatment in the U.S., with making false and unsubstantiated advertising claims. According to the FTC, ads for Slick 50 that tout tests showing improved engine performance are false and its claims of reduced engine wear are unsubstantiated.

Quaker State - Slick 50 is based in Houston, Texas. Since its 1978 introduction, Slick 50 has attracted about 30 million users world-wide. Slick 50 retails for about $18 a quart, and the company claims to have about 60% of the engine treatment market.

"Slick 50's ads claim that compared to motor oil alone, it reduces engine wear, lengthens engine life, and provides a host of other benefits. The claims sound good, but the evidence doesn't back them up,” said Jodie Bernstein, Director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection. “We believe the ads exaggerate the lack of protection motor oils provide modern engines at start-up, as well as the risk of premature engine failure. The premature engine failure Slick 50 claims to guard against is uncommon, and the company lacks reliable evidence it would be prevented by using Slick 50, in any case," she said. "In fact, all the evidence we've seen so far suggests that the best thing you can do for your car’s engine is to get an oil change performed at manufacturer recommended intervals," she said. "People who want to maximize their automobile performance and enhance its long life should read the owner's manual and follow the directions.”

etc etc

Robin Miller

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AnswerID: 343520

Follow Up By: Member - Henry L (SA) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 11:07

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 11:07

Hi Raymond,

Many years ago I treated my old 60 series Landcruiser with a 2H motor with after market turbo with Slick-50.
It certainly made a difference to the old girl.
But the interesting fact was at about 350,000K she dropped a valve, so I had the engine fully rebuilt.
After about 5000 ks the vacuum pump on the back of the alternator over heated and packed it in. I wasn't impressed so took the car back to the workshop who did the engine rebuild.
they found out after a lengthy investigation that they had in fact installed the the camshaft bearing shell around the wrong way so the oil gallery hole to the vacuum pump was blocked off.
what they couldn't workout was how it travelled over 5000ks with out oil. when they spoke to me I told them about the Slick-50 but they had a hard time believing that it Slick-50 was that good. but it was the only thing that was lubricating the vacuum pump bearing.
Anyway they pulled the engine backout and refitted the cam bearing and gave me a new alternator/ vacuum pump for nothing.
since then I would have no problem recommending the stuff.

this is just my experience with it I hope it helps.

Cheers
Henry.

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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 11:35

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 11:35

I think thats part of the problem Henry.

In your experience you had a sample of one , and most would assume that those faults would happen quickly without oil.

However in part of the proving tests to show that slick50 can be a problem they apparently ran something like 20 engines without oil and a second set without oil but with slick50

I don't recall the exact figures but the ones with slick 50 went for around 30 hours and those without oil or slick 50 ran for 34 hours.

Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 12:01

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 12:01

As another sample of one and no oil additives I ran two alternators on my old HJ45 Table Top Landccruiser fitted with the 2H engine.

Both alternators were identical and both genuine factory fit Toyota units with the vacuum pump on the rear.

Because the second alternator didn't require the vacuum pump but did require the pump housing as the rear alternator bearing is a bronze sleeve pressed into the pump housing I just removed the rotor and carbon vanes from the vacuum pimp.

Re-assembled the vacuum pump housing and blocked off the oil return and feed lines.

That alternator ran for at least 4 years that way including a trip to the top of Cape York, all on one squirt of oil from Dad's oil can!

Which I think is what Robin is saying, small statistical samples neither support nor debunk a position.

Geoff

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Follow Up By: Member - Raymond H (VIC) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 17:35

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 17:35

Cool! Thanks Robin, for the details. My reply went to Off-Track for everybody.
Raymond.

FollowupID: 611431

Follow Up By: Member - Raymond H (VIC) - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 16:47

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 16:47

Robin, Off-Track, Malcolm, 96 GLX. Lionel, Tassie; have a look at The Car Bible www.carbibles.com/additives.html . Great testimonies both for and against, plus some expert tech input.

Thanks for the confab. Sure is good to air some thoughts on lubricants and 'stuff' that makes cars go for longer and faster, even if yours is a diesel with all wheels powered!!

RaymondH

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Follow Up By: Member - Malcolm (Townsville) - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 23:14

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 23:14

RaymondH

I read most of it. The Ford Engineer made most sense.

Malcolm

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Reply By: taswegian - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 17:28

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 17:28

Hi, raymond.

Peter is dead right NEVER use so called friction modified oils or additives in newly reco engines, until around 10.000 klms. Stops rings bedding in , as neccessary to prevent compression loss and oil usage.

Cheers,

TASSIE..

AnswerID: 343594

Follow Up By: Member - Malcolm C (QLD) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 19:44

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 19:44

tassie, raymond

What is recommended oil to bed the engine in ? And the recommended first oil change (with filter of course).

Malcolm

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Follow Up By: Member - Raymond H (VIC) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 20:45

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 20:45

G'day Malcom, I'd be looking in the maintenance manual for recommendations and keeping friction modifiers away for 10,000 km at least. Being independent at running-in time is not a good idea. Engine builders don't like their work back with scratched bores and bearings, when they carry the warranty cost. My 6cy Falcon has 160,000+ on he clock, much of it while towing a Jaco Westport pop-top. Friction modifiers have been one of my experiments from when Mollybond came my way about 50 years ago. Still I don't know if my money is wasted or not. Can't prove it works and can't prove it doesn't.

Just can't stop experementing and asking questions either ... not all of them intelligent ... grin.

Raymond

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Follow Up By: Member - 120scruiser (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 22:19

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 22:19

Raymond H
I had a customer who swore by the molybond additive.
His first Toyota Hilux with the 22R engine religiously had the molybond additive put in every 10K service. That engine is still going at 475 000 km. Only had 2 timing chain kits put in.
His next Hilux with the 22R engine, well he couldn't get the molybond but it was religiously serviced every 10K and dropped compression in one cylinder at 360 000km.
Molybond is available again so he started putting it in his 2.7 litre Hilux.
I like the stuff and maybe on that test it does make a difference.
Scott

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Follow Up By: Member - Malcolm C (QLD) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 23:42

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 23:42

Raymond, Scott

Thanks for the advice.

I got out of getting my hands dirty 25 years ago when my twin brother and I retired from the army and ran a workshop. I bought and operated the first Allen Smartscope in Nth Qld. 2 x ex WO1's couldn't work together so I setup one of the first computer shops with the Microbee and 2 years later developed stock control and accounting software. I retired in 2000.

I'm rebuilding this ZD30 engine myself, in fact it's now ready to go back into the chassis. I did have recon expert (that's all he does - mining stuff. Couldn't believe such a small motor could drive such a large vehicle) check the head, pistons and bearings out for me. Based on his recommendations I just bought a standard kit from Engine Australia, hand honed the bore and put it all back together.

I'm not familiar with all the newer synthetic oils; that is why I was asking some of you "younger" guys still in the trade.

Molybond: I remember using that back in 1972 in my LS Monaro - mrs couldn't understand why we had so much money sitting on wheels, so sold it and bought our first block of land at Modbury Heights. When I sold the car I had to explain why the engine oil was BLACK. Guy took the car for 500 yards drive and said he'd take it - $4500 and I'm still crying :-(

The log book specifies: API CD, CE,CF, CF-4 or JASO DH-1 for ZD30DDTi for Hot and Warm Areas 20W-40 and 20W-50

Talk about the computer industry having jargon. What's it mean in plain english - Oils ain't oils sol.

Malcolm

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Follow Up By: Member - Raymond H (VIC) - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 09:01

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 09:01

Malcolm, my service time took 22 years in the RAAF where I learnt many things that develop independence and confidence, but unfortunately PTSD caught up and wrecked both. Sick boy for many years until diagnosed and learnt cope techniques.

Always loved mechanical things, cars particularly. Loved the Mini, respected the Renault R800 (very comfortable and capable), had a string of other brands but ended up with Fords like my father did before me. Owned a motor wrecking business for a while until too much crime associated with that industry had me back managing and business consulting mostly for engineering works that needed new ideas to get going and grow.

Has Nulon in a Falcon wagon that blew all its oil out in WA when the oil pressure sender blew its centre out. Used 32 litres of oil across the nullabor to Wollongong where rebuilt engine was fitted. Engine noise turned heads all along the way. I'm convinced that Nulon got me through, but can't prove it technically.

Now I'm off to church to look after spiritual life .. riding a bicycle with my fitness loving wife ... no oil to change and a good sun tan ... grin. I wouldn't be young again for quids.

RaymondH

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Follow Up By: Member - 120scruiser (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 09:50

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 09:50

Mal.
Nissan released a TSB (Tech Services Bulletin) for the oil use in the ZD30.

I have just copied and pasted it from my old workshop website.

First Published: 30th September 2004
Bulletin No: MAO4-001
Re: Revised Engine Oil Specification
Applied Model: Y61 & D22
Applied range: ZD3O Engines

Please be advised that the specification for the 011 fill on the ZD30 has been revised. Engine Oils that meet the specification listed below are the only oils that are permitted for use in the ZD30 Engine. 011 Specification: ACEA 83 or JASO DH.1. Nissan strongly recommend that a viscosity rating of 10W40 be used. For specific viscosity relating to ambient temperature ranges please refer to the viscosity chart in the relevant workshop manual.

Note: API CG-4 0118 must never be used In the ZD30 engine.
To support the revision in oil specification, Nissan has developed a
semi-synthetic 10W-40 engine oil that meets all the operational demands of this engine. The revision of the new oil specification is retrospective and will apply to all ZD30 engines.

The oil will be available from Nissan Parts & Accessories in 51t and 200lt Quantities using the following part numbers.
51t- B3005-10W40PK
2001t- B3200..10W40PK

Authorised by:
R Bahn
Manager. Engineering Support
National Service & Engineering Department

NISSAN MOTOR GO.
Locked Bag 1450. Dandenong South, VIC, :3154 Phone. (03) 97974111 Fax. (03) 97974400

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Follow Up By: Member - Malcolm (Townsville) - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 10:56

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 10:56

RaymondH

I know where you are coming from with PTSD.

In 1964 I took my new mini from Puckapunyal to Olive Downs Stn for 7 weeks holiday. My mum was the cook and I met the governess (now my wife). Few months later I returned for a 3 day weekend ;-) Nearly got lost in the bull dust north of BH.

I'm also a Ford man. Came home from SVN and swapped my stereo system with Allan Coffey for a 1970 XY GS Station Wagon valued at $3100. Later I owned a limo business with a couple of stretched Fairlane Ghia. My 98 V8 Ghia sedan is what I went around the block with in 2005. LOL - around the block in a limo ;-)

120scruiser

I had read that and that's what started my questions. Here they recommend a semi-synthetic oil and yet others say "keep away from synthetics for 10,000km".

Guess I'll just go into the Nissan dealer and buy the filter and oil.

Thanks all for feedback.

Malcolm

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Follow Up By: Member - Raymond H (VIC) - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 15:46

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 15:46

Malcom, I believe in keeping away from friction modifiers ie teflon etc' for the first 10,000 k. Semi and full synthetic oils aren't the same thing as friction modifiers.

Semi/full synthetic in ok at any time except for some engines that need special running-in lube for their first few hundred k. Engine rebuilders are usually particular about this.

If Nissan have something they specially recommend, then they will be protecting their warranty responsibility. That is smart for Nissan business, but not necessarily the only way to go. Play safe and don't pay later for stuffing-up I reckon.

I have a mate who is playing with 'water into hydrogen' for injecting into the air intake on his old Volvos. He is another mechanical fiddler with engineering qualifications in a similar area who is having lots of fun getting it to run like the advertisments proclaim. A Google search will bring up the advertisments, complete with lengthy testimonials. Do you know anyone who has successfully done water into hydrogen mods?

RaymondH

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Follow Up By: Member - Malcolm (Townsville) - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 23:19

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 23:19

RaymondH

"water into Hydrogen" don't know. Although I've heard around the traps its supposed to be all "hocus pocus".

I'll leave it to the younger guys ....

Malcolm

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