Deep Cycle Batteries

Submitted: Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 15:06

ThreadID: 65046 Views:5250 Replies:4 FollowUps:24

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Battery Power

In this article we explain why you might need an additional power source independent of the starting battery installed into your vehicle and we look in detail at types of batteries,

gezza100

Hi All,

Was wondering if someone could give me some advice on purchasing a deep cycle battery. I have 105 series gxl, running a TJM dual battery management system, I currently have a second battery but need to replace it with a new one.

The batter will be required to run an 80L waeco fridge, plus 12v light around the camp for a few hours at night, any advice would be much appreciated?

Thanks

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Reply By: Ozhumvee - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 15:27

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 15:27

You would be better off just buying the biggest good quality cranking battery that will fit in the battery box, typically on cruisers a N70ZZ.
A cranking battery is a much better proposition for most people as the vehicle is typically used infrequently for camping etc so the deep cycle is not used to its best advantage.

Peter
1996 Oka Motorhome

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AnswerID: 343887

Follow Up By: stevesub - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 15:45

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 15:45

I agree and that is what we have done in our Troopy. Normal cranking batteries also charge up a lot quicker than deep cycle ones. We normally run the vehicle every day and turn the ridge off when we go to bed as it wakes us up in the night. during the evening, we run one or two fluro's, maybe a laptop or small TV (5") via an inverter for a few hours.

Stevesub

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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 19:14

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 19:14

Yes , I think thats why the Exide extremes are so popular , because they are basically a cranking battery with some deep cycle capability and still put out both slightly better cranking amps (620) and RC than your typical N70

Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Maîneÿ (wa) - Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 00:16

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 00:16

Yes, they are good, that's why they have 24 months warranty
0NLY if used solely for the purpose for which they're designed
as a Cranking battery !

BUT - only 6 months warranty
when used as Auxiliary battery

Mainey . . .

FollowupID: 611899

Follow Up By: Ozhumvee - Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 07:59

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 07:59

As I said, due to mine and others findings over 30 odd years of individually running 4wd's for recreational use the best solution for the vast majority of 4wd's used as mum's taxi and used infrequently for camping and touring is two good quality cranking batteries.
Usually connected in parallel when running around town for extended periods and for the weekend away or annual hols connected through an isolator to provide main and auxilary use.
They will both last for years and years when used like this.
Our experience with deep cycle batteries permanently connected in isolated dual battery mode is that they rarely last much past the warranty period even if they last that long. They quite often cost twice as much as the equivalent cranking battery and are just not worth the extra mony for the average 4wder that only has annual leave and the odd weekend.
The only batteries that have ever lasted for any length of time as auxillaries are Sonneschein's with in my experience a 10 year life. But this was when the vehicle was used for touring and camping for at least 3 months of every year.

Peter
1996 Oka Motorhome

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Follow Up By: stevesub - Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 08:08

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 08:08

I agree 100%. You just have to be careful not to discharge the aux battery past around 20% on a regular basis but 95% of our time, we are using the vehicle as our daily driver and not camping.

I know all the theory on cranking vs deep cycle, but have found in practice that the cranking type of battery suits our needs and lasts longer than when we were using deep cycle batteries, not to mention being cheaper.

They are not for everyone but we do not stay in one place more than overnight without running the engine (which charges the battery) for whatever reason. Our trips are touring trips in our pop-top Troopy and as I said earlier, we are running one or two flouros, maybe a laptop and small 5" TV with the fridge turned off while we are sleeping so our power usage is very small.

It would be a different story if we staying in one place for a few days or more or if we had a bigger fridge or other high power devices when deep cycle batteries are a must but we do not do that type of holiday as we have plenty of that at home being semi-retired.

Stevesub

FollowupID: 611921

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 08:59

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 08:59

Actually Guys , would anyone know of an equivalent battery to Exide extreme but with better specs.

(My current Orbital Exide beats it in CCA and deep cycle rating ibut it cannot match the RC of 150 min)
Its soon time to replace my Oribtal - not because it has any problems but just because I don't like to run batteries much beyond 3 years.

I.E. I'm looking for a battery specifically rated by manufacturer as a cranking battery but with some light duty deep cycle capacity and with 620 cca and RC of 150 min or better in standard N70 size.

Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 11:46

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 11:46

Robin,
The "Overlander" by Century is another option thats commonly available and been around for about 15 years. 700CCA and 170RC.
Link here.
Spec sheet here.

FollowupID: 611954

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:40

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:40

Thanks Phil , I have heard that name now that you mention it.

I will have a look at that , exide also make another battery the
N70zzmf endurance which has 730 cca nd 160 RC but it isn't rated for light deep cycle work so I guess its plates are thinner.

I'll try and determine how Overlander stacks up against both Exides.

Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 13:19

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 13:19

Robin,
The Overlander is a 17plate N70; the Extreme is a 15 plate and I think the Endurance is 13 plate. The Overlander will be a bit more expensive, but a friend bought one recently on a 20% off sale at AutoBahn for about $180.

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Follow Up By: Maîneÿ (wa) - Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 13:48

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 13:48

Robin,
Look around for a DELKOR in either:

"31-5 80TE"
@ 580 CCA & 180 RC

"31-6 25T"
@ 625 CCA & 180 RC

If it's the Reserve Capacity your interested in.
Quality, well constructed batteries that will last.

They're only a compromise *if you need long term Auxiliary battery*
but I'm sure you know that.

Mainey . . .

FollowupID: 611970

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 11:59

Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 11:59

Hi Guys

After good look around - decided to get the Overlander which will be the only battery I have in the GU Patrol.

My Orbital is still going fine after 3 years so it will be a good experiment to see if the Australian made Overlander does the starting and limited deep cycle job as it claims.
Am a fan of Extremes for this role but Overlander is looking good.

Its a bigger beast than normal Patrol battery but does fit within the standard plastic battery shroud - with a little cutting cause the terminals are further apart.

Model number is N70zzl4wd and it was $179 - there is a cheaper N70zzl but without the extra plate strengthing.

Heavy beast also - 23kg whereas normal GU battery was 17kg

Robin Miller

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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 15:46

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 15:46

I don't agree with using crank batteries like Peter.
The dual battery set-up should keep it properly charged and seperated when not in use.
Crank batteries are poor at deliverng a few amps over a long period and their life will be quite short if you treat them like that.
Best to buy a proper deep cycle battery.
Gels and AGMs are best because they don't fall apart inside due to vibration.
I prefer AGMs because they can handle higher charge and discharge rates, but they don't like the high temperatures under the bonnet, so it depends on where you want to put it.
Wet cells are OK provided the plates are attached top and bottom, otherwise corrugations will kill them.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome

AnswerID: 343889

Reply By: Crackles - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:40

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:40

For a 105 the largest battery you will fit in that slot is a Trojan 130 amp hour deep cycle. They are one of the best for that type of construction. Can expect around 5 years life for about $250 when I looked last.
Cheers Craig.............

AnswerID: 343927

Reply By: Maîneÿ (wa) - Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:52

Monday, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:52

gezza100,

Well at least your aware you will require a Deep Cycle battery to run your fridge & lights etc :)

Basically there are two types of batteries, Cranking and Deep Cycle.

Wet cell STARTING battery is designed to deliver quick bursts of energy ( for starting )

Wet cell DEEP CYCLE batteries have less instant energy, but greater long-term energy delivery with thicker plates and can survive a number of discharge cycles.

Starting batteries should not be used constantly for Deep Cycle applications.
The Dual Purpose battery is only a compromise between the two battery types.

The Wet Cell comes in two styles, serviceable and maintenance free, both are filled with electrolyte.

AGM construction allows the electrolyte to be suspended in close proximity with the plates active material, this enhances both the discharge and recharge efficiency.
Popular usage is in high performance engine starting, power sports, deep cycle, solar & storage battery.

Buy the largest footprint AGM Deep Cycle battery what will fit into the cradle, get a battery without a normal 'battery post' that way you know it's designed as a Storage battery, not a Cranking battery and use thick battery cable.

Image Could Not Be FoundMainey . . .

AnswerID: 343930

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 13:19

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 at 13:19

That about sums it up.

FollowupID: 611965

Follow Up By: PatrolSTL04 - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 at 01:32

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 at 01:32

Everything I have read on the net and from my local Battery World states never to use an AGM under the bonnet...apparently they cannot tolerate heat. Have visited many sites explaining this and how they will "burn and blowup" if used under the bonnet.

My Trogan has been a star.....will not touch anything else for under bonnet use. AGM's are great in my camper trailer.

Century Overlander no good as a deep cycle...killed two of these in 18 months....Battery World replaced under warranty when I promised not to use them as deep cycle.

Trogan works for me as it is cycled on regular occasions.
Brett....

FollowupID: 612099

Follow Up By: Rolly - Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 14:50

Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 14:50

My, what a lot of opinion and so little factual reference. Like the statement not to used AGM batteries under the bonnet..Why then do the military use exclusively AGM in extreme heat conditions?
As for the francised retailer mentioned, my local outlet's technical adviser had never heard of Optima batteries and denied that a 5 stage battery charger even existed. Naturally, they had neither in stock :(
Much of the chatter that you will read on the fora is just that; chatter and a fair percentage just plain BS. Try reading Collyn Rivers books on the subject. (Disclaimer - I have no pecuniary interest with this product/service.) Your local library may have it or be able to access a copy for you.

FollowupID: 613327

Follow Up By: Maîneÿ (wa) - Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 15:49

Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 15:49

Rolly,
Yes, the military use AGM's because they are *superior* batteries !!

Can I suggest nicely, the person you spoke with or as you called him your "local outlet's technical adviser" is not up to date on 12v batteries, as such I would not take any notice of any advice he gave me, due to his lack of 12v product knowledge.

As you say
YOUR post is
only YOUR opinion
no *relevant facts* in it

Mainey . . .

FollowupID: 613340

Follow Up By: Rolly - Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 16:18

Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 16:18

"......your "local outlet's technical adviser" is not up to date on 12v batteries, as such I would not take any notice of any advice he gave me, due to his lack of 12v product knowledge. "
My point prezackly!
Or maybe, just perhaps, they simply didn't stock such items and he wanted to sell what they did have in store.
Best advice? = Do not ever, not never ever, rely solely upon the advice of someone who wants to sell you something.

FollowupID: 613346

Follow Up By: Rolly - Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 16:18

Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 16:18

FollowupID: 613347

Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 17:06

Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 17:06

"Why then do the military use exclusively AGM in extreme heat conditions? "

The military use only military-grade AGMs - in a steel case for better heat conduction, to avoid the overheating problems consumer-grade AGMs have, when charged at high temperatures.

FollowupID: 613352

Follow Up By: Rolly - Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 18:04

Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 18:04

"The military use only military-grade AGMs - in a steel case for better heat conduction, to avoid the overheating problems consumer-grade AGMs have, when charged at high temperatures."
Mike R

Would you care to qualify that statement.
My knowledge is not very recent, but I understood that "everyday" transports like supply trucks, humvees, personnel transports etc. in the USA military used off-the-shelf Optima spiral wound batteries almost exclusively.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

FollowupID: 613366

Follow Up By: PatrolSTL04 - Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 18:49

Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 18:49

Rolly,

"""Or maybe, just perhaps, they simply didn't stock such items and he wanted to sell what they did have in store.
Best advice? = Do not ever, not never ever, rely solely upon the advice of someone who wants to sell you something."""

You will notice from my reply that I also use AGM's which were sold to me by the same battery world....have 3 in my camper trailer, and will not put any other type of battery in it.

My AGM's in the camper are fantastic and I find that I get better Amp hours for the dollar compared to other batteries.

The battery world owner only confirmed what I have read on the net about AGM's not liking high temperatures, and not to place them under the bonnet....maybe they were both wrong but was not prepared to risk another $350 or so under the bonnet when research has shown this, and then backed up by my trusty battery world man.

AGM's in the camper work for me, and my Trojan works for me under the bonnet....my opinion.

Brett.....

FollowupID: 613374

Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 at 07:21

Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 at 07:21

The photo here shows that the brackets are welded to the case.

Military Aircraft Batteries

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Follow Up By: Rolly - Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 at 17:41

Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 at 17:41

Have a trawl around the Optima site as well, Mike.
Even Barak Obama will be relying on them in his personal limo :D

FollowupID: 613503

Follow Up By: PatrolSTL04 - Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 12:08

Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 12:08

AGM Australia have confirmed that should temperature exceed 50 degrees, an AGM Battery is not to be placed under the bonnet. Its all likely that this could be the case...you only need to feel the battery to confirm its over 50 degrees.

This is from AGM Australia.....so I think they know what they are talking about, contrary to some other advice given here.

Brett...

FollowupID: 614751

Follow Up By: Maîneÿ (wa) has - Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 19:33

Friday, Jan 30, 2009 at 19:33

I'm not going to get into any 'someone is incorrect' scenario :-)

Will ask a question:

What battery MANUFACTURER DOES RECOMMEND A BATTERY for under bonnet temperatures that DO EXCEED 50° ??

I ask because there's many AGM's used with-out hassles !

If AGM Australia don't have the inbuilt quality to be warranted under the conditions some are presently used in with warranty, I know what brand I would NOT use, just a thought, nothing more, nothing less either.

Mainey . . .

FollowupID: 614813