Which Gear ??

Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 at 22:20
ThreadID: 65128 Views:3030 Replies:13 FollowUps:31
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Was just reading the NRMA open road mag and a question in there from a member of the public is .............. """""If I was parked facing down hill what gear should I be in ??? """" Now I have always been led to believe that if facing downhill you go reverse, if facing uphill first. The answer by the motoring guru was....... handbrake on, let it rest then first gear for all occasions. While I have always put the handbrake on when on a slope I have always let the car rest on the handbrake to avoid loading up the transmission wether its manual or auto, BUT first gear for when ever parked either facing uphill or downhill ?????????? doesnt sound right to me. Was just wondering what other peoples opinion is on this and how/what gear/handbrake etc when parking on a slope ??? WHG
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 at 22:40

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 at 22:40
This is just my opinion, but you should always have your handbrake working well enough so that you don't rely on the gears to stop the vehicle from rolling.
I don't think it matters whether its 1st or reverse, given a stationary motor can turn in both directions.
I park in first all the time.
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Follow Up By: malglo - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 at 23:15

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 at 23:15
If you drive a Pajero NM-NP 3.2 DiD, there is a strong warning in Service Manual not to turn motor backwards as the cam chain tensioner can be damaged and there has been a couple of broken cam chains reported on the Victorian Pajero Club forum which may be due to the motor being turned backwards - cost many $$$$ to repair.

Best to leave in a gear that will turn motor in normal direction i.e. 1st if facing down hill, reverse if facing uphill.
Mal
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Follow Up By: Lex M (Brisbane) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 01:13

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 01:13
I'll go along with that. Some of modern motors can skip a tooth on the timing belt if turned backward.
Lex
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:31

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:31
cmon phil bit hard with a tojo
although they manage it with the work ones due to them being adjusted every fortnight.
my 80 was done about 6 months ago and does not work one bit now - time to get it looked at again
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 20:05

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 20:05
Mal and Lex, Thanks for the correction, I pressed the send button before getting my brain in gear.

Get Outmore, I know a lot of people have problems with the Tojo handbrakes, but I am puzzled why. I've owned almost every series of LandCruiser and haven't had a problem with any apart from the transmission drum that was on the 55series. I adjust them every 15-20,000k. On the later drum/disc rear brakes, I back off 3-4 notches each side - I wonder whether some mechanics back them off too far or try to get by with just a cable adjustment.
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Reply By: shaneo86 - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 at 22:44

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 at 22:44
iv allways put the car in Reverse if im loaded upp trailer, ect if im on a steep hill facing down as its your strongest gear if facin upp then 1st
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Reply By: Member - lyndon K (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 at 22:44

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 at 22:44
Hi
I am all for people asking for advise, but i seriously hope you just got your licence yesterday.
To answer your question, i always choose first, some choose reverse.
It all has to do with engine braking which you really need to understand BEFORE you can drive a car properly.
Sorry, a bit harsh but really!
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For the clock may then be still

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Follow Up By: Wherehegon - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 at 22:56

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 at 22:56
"BUT REALLY" well let me inform you I have been driving for 24 years and have heavy vehicle licence so definately know how to drive and how to park and what gears to drive. "Engine braking" yes I have had a lot to do with that driving semi's over a 20 year period so yes I have a pretty good idea on how it works. I was just asking what other people do when in either of these situations. ""It all has to do with engine braking which you really need to understand BEFORE you can drive a car properly."" most people who have been driving for years and have no interest in cars would know very little about engine braking, they would probably say "yes that what brakes are for" Sounds like you need a drink or two to hold bak on your arrogance. Sorry, a bit harsh but really! WHG
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Follow Up By: wallabyjack5 - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 00:03

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 00:03
And you wonder way people don't like to ask questions on this forum
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Follow Up By: Lex M (Brisbane) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 01:22

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 01:22
So do you think the engine braking is the same turning the engne backwards as forwards?
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Follow Up By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 07:17

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 07:17
Wallaby, when reading WHG's question, I to thought he was having a lend of us. I also think Lyndons reply was a little strong but seen worse.

One side of the recent 'moderation debate' had their asses kicked and my reading of your comment suggests that the other side are still throwing stones.

The kerb, gentlemen, the best braking system when parked either way.


Cheers.......Lionel.
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Follow Up By: Pat Malone - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 21:36

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 21:36
rude fools like you lyndon are the reasen so many of us wont pay to join.
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Reply By: Member - lyndon K (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 at 23:09

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 at 23:09
all i can say in LOL!
Now is the only time you own
Decide now what you will,
Place faith not in tomorrow
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Reply By: Rockape - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 06:39

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 06:39
Same as you park underground which is bloody steep.

Engine off, wheels into the wall (gutter), handbrake applied and low gear selected.

I have always been taught to use the gear that doesn't allow your motor to turn backwards
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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:42

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:42
Rockape

>I have always been taught to use the gear that doesn't allow your motor to turn backwards<

I take it you mean gearbox.

I know that some 2 stroke diesels like Euclid Scrapers can run their engines in reverse mode but normal 4bies or cars?

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:16

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:16
Willem,
Note! the statement was turn backwards, not run backwards, and yes I meant a suitable gear so if you have a runaway the motor turns in its normal running direction.

Yep, the Detroit 2 stroke series of engines and Commer knockers will run backwards (not very well mind you). Used to have the problem with a 71 series Detroit suction cutter engine in a dredge, you would hit something solid on the bottom and the resulting shock would be sent back through the hydraulics, stopping it and sending it backwards. Lots of smoke and sometimes a broken supercharger drive shaft or seals in the supercharger destroyed.

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 15:52

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 15:52
yep the 2H diesal will run backwards - years ago there was a mines department alert about it.
that is why the 2H has a low oil cutoff after 10 seconds and the 1hz does not

the rotary fuel pump of the 1HZ does not allow it to run backwards
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Reply By: Cruiser Crazy - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 06:46

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 06:46
Check the internet to see which gear has the lowest reduction. And then go with the one that has the lowest, forward or reverse. (If your manual allows it off course)
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Respectfully- Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 at 21:59

Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 at 21:59
its always reverse that has the lowest ratio
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Reply By: Ray - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:36

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:36
Regarding engine braking and I'm not referring to parking I do not believe that many people know what engine braking is. It is common to see vehicles slowing down and having their brake lights on. They are obviously not "dropping down a cog" to slow the vehicle down. Also by changing down a gear you can accelerate quicker when the road is clear. It also saves on brake wear than you may need later if an emergency were to occur. I would think that engine braking is one of the items not taught at the driving schools.
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Follow Up By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:54

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:54
The vast majority of cars sold today are automatics so engine braking is irrelevant to the average motorist. The amount of wear saved on brake pads would be immeasurable. I've been driving autos for a few years now and have never noticed any difference in pad wear versus my days driving manuals.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:19

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:19
I would rather change brake pads then auto clutches :-))
.
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:36

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:36
I dont see that autos make any difference to the theory of engine braking. I use my auto box exactly the same way as a manual if I require engine braking, particularly towing an unbraked trailer. I suppose most auto drivers dont go past D ,but the option
is still there, maybe not adequately explained to auto drivers. If in
any doubt of parked vehicle rolling, I chock it......oldbaz.
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Follow Up By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:50

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:50
I agree, OldBaz. Mine is a Super Select auto, in the paj anyway, and I manually select when towing, but my comments relate to the average motorist in the average car.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:02

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:02
Oldbaz, On most older vehicles you need a certain number of revs to engage the torque converter. Any less and you will free-wheel unless you can manually 'lock' the torque converter or be in low low. So unless you up the revs by using foot or hand throttle the vehicle may freewheel.

.
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:40

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:40
Kiwi Kia, ,while I dont doubt your theory, I have no such experience with my 2000 V6 Jack. I only select the lower gears when on steep descents or in 50 kph zones. I locked it in 2nd
on the Bungle track at mostly low revs & had no issues, that was towing a C/t. Under normal conditions I let the auto do its thing.
Is this freewheeling particular to any vehicle ? My 94 Peugeot
auto will actually downchange twice if running up to a stop with no throttle, with no action by me, but never freewheels.......oldbaz.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 13:12

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 13:12
Hi Oldbaz, My vehicle is a 2.8 TDI Pajero. When you are going down a very steep track (or hill) can you take your feet off the brake and leave it on the floor without the vehicle 'running away' ? I can only crawl down a steep track in low range low, all other gears the vehicle will accelerate by itself.
You need to maintain an engine speed of about 1k engine revs to lock the torque converter unless you have done a modification and put an extra switch on the dash which allows a lock-up in other gears. Some modern vehicles can lock-up the torque converter in all gears in low range.

.
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Reply By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:28

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:28
I once heard Allan Moffat state that engine braking should be avoided unless absolutely necessary.

His theory went that brakes are designed to slow the vehicle and are much cheaper to replace than a clutch or a gearbox. Why prematurely wear out your clutch/gearbox when brakes will do a better job?

Jim.

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Follow Up By: troopyman - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:38

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:38
Why do people use gears to slow down , its not a race car . Or maybe it is ?
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:03

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:03
thats pretty much what i got told when getting my truck liscense
you might use the correct lower gear to keep speeds down on descents like the adelaide or perth hills for example but not use gears for slowing down for city driving.
use the brakes then select the correct gear for the speed
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:09

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:09
That makes sense. There is a time and place for engine braking eg I've travelled through Cunningham's Gap in QLD and the trucks are creeping down in first gear at about 5 km/h as it is so steep. They would cook their brakes if they used them all the way down.

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Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:22

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:22
Jacobs engine brakes and exhaust brakes have been around for years on truck engines with no problem at all.
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Follow Up By: Member - Keith C (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:30

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:30
I reckon engine braking stems from the old days of drum brakes and heavy loads down-hill , lowest sensible gear and feather the brakes to keep them cool,once the drums heated up no amount of boost would help much. On a lighter note,horse and cart used engine braking! left rein-left, right rein-right, both reins-whoa!!as well as the leather block on steel rim footbrake.In my childhood bakers and milko`s all used horse and cart,the old horse knew exactly where to stop,oops I digress,aaahh memories.
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Reply By: Rod W - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:17

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:17
I have seen the results of a vehicle being parked facing up hill and in reverse gear without the handbrake being applied. It managed to roll down the slope and start in reverse with becoming the air intake and the air intake becoming the, the result being all the plastic in the air intake/snorkel being melted away. This happened to a 1985/6 new Toyota diesel 70 series. I use to work for the Conservation Commission of the NT, couple of brand new vehicles had been delivered, parked on the slope outside of the Mechanical workshop with the above happening to one of the vehicles.
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Follow Up By: Lex M (Brisbane) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 20:27

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 20:27
Errr....

Wouldn't it have to have been parked in 1st for the motor to start backwards if irt was facing uphill?
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Reply By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 19:11

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 19:11
I always use first, simply because it's the lowest ratio gear in the box,
Shane
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Respectfully- Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 at 22:00

Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 at 22:00
Reverse is lower in most cases Shane
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Follow Up By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 at 22:53

Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 at 22:53
I think you are mistaken.
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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 20:06

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 20:06
Well owning an auto I just point the wheels in to the kerb and put it in P cos if I dont the key wont come out. Makes it easy.
AS for heavy vehicles stopping, the Mercedes buses I have been driving will come almost to a comlete stop from 100k without touching the brake. Great things are retarders. Makes the tailgaters wake up when it stops quite quickly with no brake lights on.
ROFL.
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Reply By: On Patrol & TONI - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 20:06

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 20:06
Wherehegon
I just stick it in "P" mate Ha Ha Ha
Hope this helps buddy.

When are you coming out with us for a play??????

If you can do camping now, let me know, we are going to a private property out past Rylstone for the Aust Day WE.

Just us & the RareBreed Club and those fellas from the Jeep Club, so if you can come, bring a Fire Extiguisher, or dont go near a Jeep, HEEEE HEEEE.
Cheers Colin.
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Follow Up By: Wherehegon - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 21:56

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 21:56
Hi Mate, already going up to Forster for that weekend dam it, sounds like it will be a great time, spewing. ""When are you coming out with us for a play?????? "" Yeah definitely up for a bit of fun, has been a while since we have done any 4wdriving. Going up to stockton on sunday for a run with some neighbours, first time out with bubs so will be interesting lol not that she will have much say in it as she will he harnessed in nice and tight. Any one welcome to tag along if they like, suppose to be 28 up there so should be a nice day. About 6 vehicles going all up maybe a couple more. Wont mention nothing about those jeeps, there better off road then my prado lol, but I can lend you another extinguisher if you like ?? WHG
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Reply By: Member - lyndon K (SA) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 23:00

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 23:00
OK, I'll eat humble pie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't quite read the post as it should have been read!
To many beers, but hey it's Darwin! LOL
I still hold by the line if people don't understand gears and engine braking ----- well really.
My first experience with motors was dirt bikes & they can teach you alot!
I guess it up to government to implement better training. My nephew has just got his licence but can't drive a manual.,but is allowed too!!!
Just stuck it into a pole last week, but that's another story!
My humble apologies for any offence given.

Cheers Lyndon
Now is the only time you own
Decide now what you will,
Place faith not in tomorrow
For the clock may then be still

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Follow Up By: Wherehegon - Friday, Jan 16, 2009 at 14:32

Friday, Jan 16, 2009 at 14:32
No offence taken Lyndon, we all have to eat hunble pie occasionally eh, Ive jumped too quick before and not read a post properly, maybe I should have also explained /written the question in a better way, anyway at last you had the balls to reply even thou it really wasnt needed, at the end of the day every one is entitled to their own opinion, all good, have a great day, WHG
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Respectfully- Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 at 22:02

Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 at 22:02
Good on yer Lyndon, its takes a big man to sidle up to a fight and a bigger man to admit he was wrong.
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