are solar panel really efficient ?

Ha ha ha yep!! My thoughts too.

Spot on!!

And solar panels, being much lighter would require much less energy to transport.

Cheers,

Val.

Well Val,

My 64 watt Solar panel weighs 11 kg, my 1600 watt generator weighs 22 kg.

They both have their advantages and uses.

Neither is perfect.

Cheers,

Jim.

Jim,
your 64 watt Unisolar panel should weigh only 9.2 Kg
do you have something added to it ?

Mainey . . .

Mainey,

Regulator, 10 metres of very thick cable and a Merit plug to stick into the battery box.

Cheers,

Jim.

Jim,
hope the Regulator is attached to the battery, or at least that end, not the solar panel end.

I've used windscreen installers black silastic to fix regs in some installations, keeps it stable and out of the way too.

Mainey . . .

Note to self.....

David provides SpellChecker..... perhaps I should use it!!


Cheers

Brian

And the break-even point for a generator is...??

Sure, 25 years sound a long time, but how many generators would you go through in that time?

Val.

We've been getting between 30,000 & 45,000 hours out of some of our gensets, before needing reconditioning, or replacement.

There's 8,760 hours in a year, so you'd use at least 3 gensets over 25 years. Cost varies but can be around $18-25,000 for the units I've mentioned in reply below. Then there's the fuel costs, oil changes every 250 hours..................etc.

Always got your hand in your pocket with gensets.

Bob.

Hi Bob... your point is good!

I was actually making the comparison to when you had the option of hooking into the grid against being independent and going solar!

Eg my in-laws have the power going past their gate but chose solar as the upfront fee for a grid connection was close to that of a basic solar system.. however 18 years later.. they would have been better off with mains. (Apart from the convenience factor with solar in black outs)

They have had batteries fail, regulators fail, had all the panels stolen once (insurance covered that) replaced panels that had fallen off in performance etc.

And where they live is very hot in summer and no air conditioning.

Cheers

Mark T

I think you've summed it up very well Tubby.

Until Solar technology improves by about 1000% (yes one thousand) it is economically unviable.

Cheers,

Jim.

A $1000 Solar Panel will put out an average 4 amps during daylight hours.

A $1000 generator will put out 60 amps at 12 volts - so you'll be using the generator a whole lot less.

Mike,
Your numbers may NOT be incorrect, the Solar panel will as you say put out ~4 Amps, all day during sunlight hours, therefore the Solar panel will run the appliances and also recharge the battery system.
The battery system *remains* fully charged till the sun goes behind the horizon and the *fully charged* battery system will then power the appliances during the night.
Next morning the solar panel will again run the appliances and also fully charge the battery system again.

The generator, will only charge the battery system when it is turned on and running.
The battery system becomes discharged because it has been running the appliances without charging assistance.
The battery system voltage goes from fully charged, when the genni is on, to very discharged just before the genni is turned on next time, causing battery damage and shortening their life.

You have to be there to set-up, refuel and run the genni, not with the solar system, it runs independently, you don't need to do a thing, you can be away for weeks fishing if the system is correctly set-up.

Mainey . . .

you get pretty good power output from some wind towers

Qubert,

Tell us how much power can be had from a wind tower and at what cost.

Bob - Just order one of these and be done with it:

Toshiba Portable Reactor

;) Wazza

Do you have any links to support that?

From what I know the NiCad batteries are 100% recyclable as is the rest of the car.
The body is not greatly different from conventional vehicles and probably lighter

Ive seen some sites that say the batteries are made in one place and the engine/recharger is made in another.
But how is that different to any other modern car or any consumer goods for that matter?

What car in the world draws its supples from a mine pit outside its assembly plant? :confused:


Personally I beleive that electric cars powered by grid electricity for short urban trips would be cheaper,better and more economical than hybrids

(From what I know the NiCad batteries are 100% recyclable as is the rest of the car.
The body is not greatly different from conventional vehicles and probably lighter)

Don't think they use NiCad's, way better than them.

(Ive seen some sites that say the batteries are made in one place and the engine/recharger is made in another.
But how is that different to any other modern car or any consumer goods for that matter?

What car in the world draws its supples from a mine pit outside its assembly plant? :confused: )

The problem is cost to recycle. Sure it maybe done but maybe cost negative to environment and the hip pocket.


(Personally I beleive that electric cars powered by grid electricity for short urban trips would be cheaper,better and more economical than hybrids)

Actually most research to date suggests otherwise, unless you're talking under 100k. Not only that but it would bring the grid to a complete stand still. No excess capacity now and unlikely in the future unless we go nuclear.Fully electric cars are still very impractical in our country. No capacity now and unlikely in the future unless we go nuclear.

Nickel metal hydride are the batteries,my error but they are still 100% recyclable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_metal_hydride_battery

They cost about about a$1500USD a ton to recycle,which is about the weight of the batteries of 15 cars or about $$110 per car.
Most countries are setting up plants to handle them and the recycling cost will come down

Most australians ,drive about 40 klms a day on average,which is well within the range of an electric car.

It would not affect the grid ,in fact it would make it more efficient.
Electric cars can be recharged at night when the power plants are idle.
With plants being used at near full capacity it makes them more viable.
The extra energy they consume is offset against the savings on fossil fuel used by cars.

Im not saying it should be compulsory to drive one ,but there are many inaccurate claims about the Prius' alleged short comings on the net.
For instance the Hummer being more efficient than a Prius is bunkam and is based on a report paid for by north american car dealers.

Yep Ross them's the ones.

Not sure about most countries setting up plants but I don't know.

I'm sure your right about the average klms but very impractical for most after work hours driving. Means having two cars.

It will effect the grid and the reality is the exiting grid is old and near capacity. Yes there is some spare at night but less than you think. Air Cons use has gone up exponentially. Many industries make use of off peak time. Power stations don't go to idle they remain on line at ready, but I know what you mean.

As for a comparison between coal/electric to liquids I don't know of any research. However you might find the environmental costs of coal far out way oil.

Not saying your right or wrong in any of this just discussing some points. It's going to be a long long time before main stream use electric cars. It took over 100 years to get the existing transport system and infrastructure in place. It'll take just as long to change it.

Ross ,the $110 you quote does not include the energy required for the recycling process of the whole vehicle , the pommy version of TopGear did a manufacturing and recycling energy cost comparrison of a standard tojo and the prius , the prius over an expected life span of 25yrs costs more than double , its very easy to say electric is the way to go however electric power still costs $$$$ and the environment impact is still extremely large.No form of energy is FREE of $cost or environmental impact.

"Ross ,the $110 you quote does not include the energy required for the recycling process of the whole vehicle"

No but neither did you quote the cost of recycling a normal car body.
The Prius is a car fundamenatally like any other with the battery pack and drivetrain removed so they sort of cancel each other out.

There is a taxi in Cairns that has clocked up half a million KLMS on a the same battery pack.
Others have achieved 300000 klms on the same battery.

Much of the so called information on how green the Prius is ,is based on very conservative figures of a 150000 klms lfespan of the vehicle.

The claims that mining and procesing nickel for ther batteries is enviromentally destructive also does not hold water.
Toyota get the nickel from a mine in England that has been in use since the 1800s.
Much of the damage was done with processes that havent been used for 40 years.

I watch and like Top Gear but I would not quote them.
If it was the episode I saw ,I cant remember them saying it was their report or even where they got it from.

Yes, it seems so.
If you're not in a desperate hurry you'll soon have the choice of much more efficient collectors or stock clearance prices on the existing stuff.

they 'run' solar powered cars from Darwin to Adelaide each year, I know that is a different vehicle but the solar and electronics exist atm.

It's not in production and I would guess financial constraints are the major reason because the speed and distance travelled are not in question.

I still have one of the solar panels used on the trip in 1996 :)

Mainey . . .

Mike,
You ask: "Why are there no solar-panel factories that are powerd totally by solar or wind power"

Probably for the very same and also logical reason the factories that make generators are NOT powered by generators and the factories that make batteries are NOT powered by batteries either :-))

Did you see if the US Dept of Energy have analysed the energy used to produce Generators ?

Fortunately you did get the relevant information that in 700 days (~2 years) the solar panel is absolutely energy neutral and from that point on will be helping and assisting the environment, not polluting it as a generator obviously will, by their continual need for oil and petrol and their spewing of noxious exhaust gas, which will be continually polluting the atmosphere.

(but do you and I really care? I use solar because I find it far more efficient, not because of the obvious pollution caused by generators)

Mainey . . .