Rear End Lift

Hi All, Just after some adivce - tips - recommendations on lifting the ride height of my Ford Territory when towing a coromal 440 campertrailer. When hitched it dumps my rear in a big way, and have been looking at either poly air-bags or heavier suspension.
I have been told i cant use any torsion bars because i have a TREG hitch on the van.
Interested in hearing your thoughts and suggestions on this.

Regards
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Reply By: Madfisher - Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 at 16:22

Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 at 16:22
For the life of me I cannot remember what sort of rear suspension Territorys have. If it is coils then some lovells extra heavy duty will help, if indpendent I would talk to a suspension expert.
Cheers Pete
AnswerID: 346177

Reply By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 at 16:28

Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 at 16:28
From memory, the rear of the ford is the 'blade' suspension similar to the falcon. i.e. independent with coils.
Would look at an upgrade to medium duty variable rate rear coils first.
AnswerID: 346178

Reply By: Tenpounder - Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 at 16:59

Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 at 16:59
Hi there. We don't know if your Territory is 2WD or AWD, which makes a big difference in both towing mass and drawbar load. Also, you dont say what model camper you have. If it has a Treg coupling, it may be a Pioneer model, which is about a quarter of a tonne heavier.
If the back is down, then is the front up as well? If so, the experts say you need to take some weight off the back, not pump it up. Otherwise, you can be driving a lethal rig with not enough weight on the front wheels to keep it safe.
Do you know how much the drawbar weight is? How much gear do you put in the back of the Territory? If you have (say) 180 kg on the drawabar (about normal for a van like yours) and a fair bit in the car, your rear end sag may be more about overloading than about beefing up springs.
If the front of the Territory is up, then the rules are that you must lighten the load on the rear, or else transfer some weight to the front. If you are towing with a Territory, then you could well get rid of the Treg and go for a coupling that allows you to fit a WHD.
If the front of your rig goes up significantly when you couple up, then you are risking loss of steering control, which is really not much fun, expecially if you have the family on board.
AnswerID: 346184

Follow Up By: Tenpounder - Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 at 17:02

Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 at 17:02
Sorry, WDH (Weight Distribution Hitch), not WHD
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FollowupID: 614159

Follow Up By: Darbro74 - Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 at 23:59

Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 at 23:59
Hi Tenpounder,
My car is RWD and has the heavy duty tow bar fitted - 2300kg max capacity. The van is Coromal Magnum 440xc Pioneer (as you guessed) The chassis on these vans are huge in comparison to the Goldstream / Jayco. Obvious where the weight is.
I believe the fault lies with the placement of the van axel - it appears to be approx 75% to the rear of the van, meaning the front is already leaning forward. I put the van on a Toyota Hilux - no movement in the rear of the car, however, van still pointed DOWN at the front.
I dont know the drawbar weight - taking it to be weight properly later in the week..I have been told so many different ways to do this and each one of the is supposedly the best way...one gave me a ball weight of nearly 400Kgs...which i find bloody hard to believe.
When i packed it, i had nothin in the back of the car. Other than the wife & 2kids + myself it was empty. Majority of weight packed in van was evenly distributed over rear wheels.
thanks for yoru suggestions
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FollowupID: 614236

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 00:18

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 00:18
If you fit a Hayman Reece hitch the towball height is adjustable so you can lift it to get the trailer at the right height.

Perhaps the problem is wheel size. What is on the trailer are they bigger than the car. if you have only a RWD perhaps your trailer is more Öffroad "than the car and you wont really need a treg hitch and therefore can fit a proper towing setup and fix the problem.

The way I suggested is accepted as pretty much the proper way of determining weight correctly.

Cheers





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FollowupID: 614241

Follow Up By: Tenpounder - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 09:37

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 09:37
I must confess that, when I started the towing thing a few years ago, the whole scene intimidated me, and I bought a Multi-Weigh from Maytow for $149 (which happens to be very close to me in Adelaide). This allowed me to juggle the load within the caravan (we've got a Coromal Poptop) to get the right load. I swear by the 10% rule (10% of the caravan gross weight on the drawbar), and I've used the Multi-Weigh for that purpose (weigh each wheel, plus the drawbar, to get the total).
I must confess to having done a lot of load shifting to get the perfect balance, but it pays dividends in terms of good safe towing. That is also why I won't add a second gas bottle on the drawbar.
I'd be seriously thinking that swapping the Treg for a 50mm ball would be a relatively cheap move that would go a long way by allowing a WDH, ideally with a height adjustable hitch, like Graham H suggests. Then I'd be putting as much heavy stuff towards the back of the Magnum, until I had the drawbar load down to around 200kg before weight redistribution. The secret of this is that every kg shifted from front to back takes 2 kg off the drawbar!
So all the spuds and claret can actually earn their keep this way!
Hope this helps.
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FollowupID: 614269

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 09:59

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 09:59
Actually 10% is only a recommendation and up to 15% is acceptable.

EG My van has a ATM of 2800kg as it has been uprated to its maximum legal ATM.

However as the chassis is rated at 2500KG I have to have a ball weight of at least 301kg to remain legal.

It tows fine at this . Sometimes more is better. Depends entirely on the towing characteristics of the combination.

Its a bit like men and women, some are more compatible than others.

Same with vehicles and trailers Some work well together and others will never be totally compatible


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FollowupID: 614275

Follow Up By: Darbro74 - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:33

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:33
Thanks guys for your input - it is greatly appreciated and i will take all into consideration.

Graham in answer the to wheel size - car is 17" and van is 15" LT tyres.

I didnt want to remove the TREG hitch as i intend to purchase a 4WD later this year - hence the reason for purchasing the Off-Road van with Treg hitch.

I believe i have to areas to address;

1 - is the ride height of the car- possibly do to soft springs - may be fixed with heavier springs or air bags

2 - is the ride height of the van..- I will look at the option of the Adjustable Hitch Hayman Reese...

TenP - i know Maytow (not far from me) so will check them out as well...Also Cara-Rest - they told me to bring car / van in and they will look at the setup and advise....do that in Feb when they open on weekends.

Thanks again guys for your input..

Regards
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FollowupID: 614297

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 15:05

Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 at 15:05
Well I have just come home to the van and lo and b ehold there is a Kedron ATV parked beside me with a Treg hitch AND a WDH on it so obviously they work together.





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FollowupID: 614353

Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 at 19:24

Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 at 19:24
I would be loading it up as if you are going on a trip and taking it down to the local weighbridge and see whats what.

Take wife kids everything.

Weigh the whole rig car you lot and all. = GCVM

then pull forward and weigh trailer only, disconnected from car. =ATM

Back it up and put ONLY the hitch on the weigh bridge and support it level with a jack or something like a block of wood .
Towball weight.

Then do the sums ATM minus towball weight is your GTM

Your car manual will give you the maximum figures which to stay legal and must not be exceeded.
Putting higher springs or Polyairs only raises the back and are really for lifting the extra weight in car only.

If the trailer is pushing the rear down it will be pivoting the car on the rear suspension regardless of what springs you have and lifting the front.

Nothing other than a proper WDH will alter this.

(A block of concrete on the front bumper will counteract it) LOL

Have fun
AnswerID: 346207

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