Toyota 4.7L V8 Petrol Engine, Top end noise when cold??.

Submitted: Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 15:58
ThreadID: 65603 Views:11665 Replies:5 FollowUps:10
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SWMBOS, 100series v8 is the smoothest thing to drive!, heaps of grunt, quieter than the previous sedan,Seems to be doing around the 15- 16ltrs/100k mixed driving. We are very happy with it overall but as always there's a But!. When cold or on most restarts there is valve train noise up top till the oil gets pumped thru, Just wondering if anyones had experience with these engines in this regard? The service schedule has been up to date by a toyota dealer, although it sat around for six months doing nothing. The cam clearance is adjusted by shim i believe, thinking this is where the prob may be.


Cheers Axle.
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Reply By: Madfisher - Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 16:05

Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 16:05
Their a nice thing Axle, I use to use the bosses to pick up horsefloats from St Marys. Much more refined then his new 200.
How many Ks.
Could pay to use a good quality 10/50 perhaps aqnd change it often for a while to flush any nasties out.For what its worth I like Penrite, and I have noticed a lot of engineers do also.
Cheers Pete
AnswerID: 347079

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 16:24

Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 16:24
Pete, its done 170,000 ks, Toyota use 10W/30 Castrol , Not sure if thats so bright ,ok when new but only need a little clearance when hot for that sort of grade to let things rattle.But then oils aint oils.....lol.

Axle.
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Follow Up By: gragra - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 10:21

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 10:21
Axle,

Believe it or not it is likely to be piston slap!! I had exactly the same problem with mine. Persistent complaints to Toyota resulted in them pulling the engine down and replacement of the block, pistons etc. You could clearly see the marks on the side of the Pistons. Problem is no longer apparant.

Not sure where you are at with your warranty but I would be putting pressure on Toyota.
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Reply By: toyotabits.com - Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 16:30

Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 16:30
G'day Axle, with those engines you will need to replace the oil filter with a genuine Toyota filter & use only Castrol GTX2 for 5 or 6,ooo klm's & do the same again, new fillter & GTX2 for another 5 or 6'oooklm's then change the oil again to your choice of oil from then on, use only genuine filter's always, you will find that will make an enormous difference, regards aussiedingo
AnswerID: 347088

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 17:35

Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 17:35
Thanks mate will take your advice!


Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: normglenda - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 22:15

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 22:15
Hi Axle

I have a V8, done 110000 KLM ,is going good. I have LPG Prins VSI on it. I have always used Toyota filters and oil.

What is the reason for using GTX 2? Any benefit in me doing what you suggested? Also any suggestions on me using another oil or should I stick with what I have been using.

Regards
Norm
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Follow Up By: normglenda - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 22:18

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 22:18
Apologies the above question should have directed to Toyotabits
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Follow Up By: toyotabits.com - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 22:33

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 22:33
G'day normglenda, the GTX2 has the correct amount of detergent to clean oilways in conjunction with genuine Toyota filters makes all the difference, I am a Mechanical Engineer with more than 50 years involved within this industry, occasionally you pick up a tip that works & this is one of them, usually caused by non genuine filters, this process can be done once a year or once every whenever - a cheap & rewarding pat on the back for your engine. As I stated before after this process go to the oil of your choice - whatever works for you. regards aussiedingo
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Follow Up By: normglenda - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 22:43

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 22:43
Aussiedingo

Thanks for the tip, I will give my engine a pat on the back next couple of oil changes. Is sticking with Toyota oil as good as any?

Reagards
Norm
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Follow Up By: Ranger75 - Tuesday, Feb 03, 2009 at 14:45

Tuesday, Feb 03, 2009 at 14:45
On the LCOOL site this guy posted some information about the replies here.
Sounds as if he knows a fair bit about this.


The guy responded with the following.

The GTX2 has the correct amount of detergent to clean oilways in conjunction with genuine Toyota filters makes all the difference, I am a Mechanical Engineer with more than 50 years involved within this industry, occasionally you pick up a tip that works & this is one of them, usually caused by non genuine filters, this process can be done once a year or once every whenever - a cheap & rewarding pat on the back for your engine. As I stated before after this process go to the oil of your choice - whatever works for you. "

He does know what he is talking about

Regards


I would agree with his solution, but I do not agree with his reasoning.
What the problem is has nothing to do with engine oil detergency.

It does have a lot to do with viscosity and viscosity stability of the engine oil, hydraulic pressure retention in the followers, as well as the anti-drain back valve in the filter.

In service, multigrade engine oils undergo shearing of the polymer content [the additive that renders the oil its multigrade properties], such that they lose their viscosity over time. Apart from fuel dilution in service that is the reason why used oils appear "thin" when drained and left to cool to room temperature.

Oil filters play an important role in retaining a supply of oil "ready" to circulate when an engine is cranked. They contain a valve that prevents oil from completely draining from them on standing.
If the valve does not work effectively [many non genuine filters have poor performance in preventing draining on standing, some do not even have a valve at all (lower cost)] and after the engine oil has been sheared in service there is a reduced supply of oil from the filter to the top end of the motor during cranking and the followers are not hydraulically primed sufficient to prevent tappet noise.
Most engines take between 30 seconds and 5 minutes for a full supply of oil at pressure to reach all through the top of the motor, and while many engines need very little pressure at idle the attendant tappet noise in a properly maintained engine usually indicates a lack of hydraulic pressure in one or more followers.
Now followers themselves can be a culprit here as they sometimes “leak down” on standing, but this is usually not a widespread problem in modern engines. The lack of oil supply on starting cranking is a more common fault, per above.
The reason Castrol GTX 2 is one of the many fixes, is because it is relatively high in viscosity at ambient temperature, being a 20W-50, and because it has very good shear stability [i.e.: its polymer resists mechanical shear in the engine]. It therefore retains its viscosity in service and does not drain from the filter/followers as much as lower viscosity and less shear stable engine oils. This is particularly relevant as the engine oil begins to reach the end of its drain interval. In fact some oils may be “quiet regarding tappet noise on start-up when new” but develop the ‘noise’ after 5,000km service. This points to a loss of viscosity as above.
There are other properly formulated SAE 15W-40 engine oils with excellent shear stability, as well as some SAE 10W-30 Energy Conserving engine oils that are suitable alternatives to Castrol GTX2.

As well a genuine Toyota oil filter will retain the oil on standing so the engine benefits from adequate supply on start up.
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FollowupID: 615563

Reply By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 18:00

Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 18:00
Charlie

I wouldn't do this for everybody, but, because you are such a good bloke I'll swap you my wifes new honda civic, which is very quiet, and does 6ltr to 100km. for the 100 series.

The reason is I'm a little deaf and I wouldn't hear the little rattle.

See ya down the Central Coast!

Regards Bob
AnswerID: 347109

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 18:18

Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 18:18
G/Day Bob!,,, Mmmmm, Honda!!. Not my style, will just have to pass up the offer mate!...lol.

Give me a buz when on the Coast!.

Cheers.

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FollowupID: 615262

Reply By: Willem - Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 19:59

Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 19:59
Axle


OWAF!!!

Banana peels in the sump might help?



hehehehehehe


Oh why didn't she buy a Disco?




Cheers
AnswerID: 347132

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 20:43

Sunday, Feb 01, 2009 at 20:43
ARRRRRRG!!! , You know when to stick it in !!!.


Cheers Axle.
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FollowupID: 615288

Reply By: gragra - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 10:22

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 10:22
Axle,

Believe it or not it is likely to be piston slap!! I had exactly the same problem with mine. Persistent complaints to Toyota resulted in them pulling the engine down and replacement of the block, pistons etc. You could clearly see the marks on the side of the Pistons. Problem is no longer apparant.

Not sure where you are at with your warranty but I would be putting pressure on Toyota.
AnswerID: 347212

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