Vic fires

Its hard, and very debatable, to put laws in place to protect people from their own stupidity. I get the feeling that a lot of people, men mostly, feel that its their duty and that they have the skills to protect their house and property. I've read a number of stories already today of guys who sent their family away but stayed behind themselves, one guy to try to get his boat. While I understand this desire, these people need to understand they danger they are putting the CFA/SES in, if its know people are in an area the CFA/SES will work a lot harder and put themselves in more danger than if its just property.

Matt,

Debateable? Maybe.

Have we not had seatbelt laws for nearly 40 years?

Your point about a boat is poignant. Anyone stupid enough to risk their life for a boat is a fool. Have they not heard of insurance?

We all have a right to make our own decisions, but some of those that got incinerated were children. They had no choice.

It is so very sad that people have died when they shouldn't have.

Regards,

Jim.

Jim I have been fighting fires for 30 years and from what i see here is that there wasnt enough notice to get out, and being a wooded area trees drop across the roads and visibility is poor so most had no choice at all but to stay.
Have you ever been at a severe fire front?
Anyone who hasnt doesnt know what its like, or how they will react, it wont be as you think you would.
I have seen big tough blokes go to water, even jump off the truck and try running away, a deadly move.
All the resouces and all the laws will never work under conditions like this.

Pesty

Pesty,

What I am saying is that it 2009. We have technology. we have aerial surveilance to spot fires, we have the Weather Bureau to predict wind shifts and temperatures.

We know in advance (often 24+ hours) that a town will possibly/probably be under threat. At that point everyone evacuates, no option.

The death toll from this is likely to exceed 200. Whatever we are currently doing isn't working. In 2009 I find that totally unacceptable.

Regards,

Jim.

All good in theory Jim, but in the real world it happens too fast sometimes.
If "IF" they could get word to many, huge task on its own, where do you think they would have accumilated in kinglake, ???
In the town somewhere, and quess what would have happened.
As far as i can see the fire charged so fast and changed direction it was so unpredictable, NOTHING can be done to stop these fires, or get to everyone in its path.
Maybe around 200 deceased,which is absolutely tragic, but many thousands are alive.
Sorry mate cant agree with you, so many people in so many places and so little time, mother nature will always win!

Cheers Pesty

Pesty,

From Sky News

"Meanwhile, Premier John Brumby has announced a royal commission to examine the state's emergency response and possibly review the longstanding 'stay and defend or leave early' policy aimed at mitigating the risk of fatalities from bushfires"

That is good news. We simply cannot accept that nothing can be done do save lives.

Cheers,

Jim.

All good on the face of it mate, but on the same TV an interview with a kinglake resident, he said that there was NO warning , not even any smoke, NOTHING, and it was all on them in minutes, no royal commission is going to help another day like that.

I dont say that something shouldnt be looked at, in fact the best idea i have heard yet and the most practical, reqires no outside help, is a fireproof safety room/cellar at every home rebuilt, and im sure there will be thousands who will put one in after this as well.
Good opening for you mate, start manufacturing safety rooms delivered on site.

Cheers Pesty

My wife and I also and to the wonderful people who are doing their utmost to save the day god bless you all...

Lance & Marg Cairns FNQ

Good to see you and the family are OK Jim.

A friend of mine lost his home at King Lake yesterday, but he and his family are OK.

I see they are reporting the the former Channel 9 news reader Brian Naylor who lived on his farm at King Lake West is unaccounted for and his wife has now been confirmed as killed.
Does not look good for Brian given those circumstances.

Such a sad, sad day for so many.

Jim, was hoping you guys were OK. We are in NSW at the moment but have been horrified to see the news. Have been in touch where we know people to let them know where, what how.

Cheers

I speak for all here, so sad for you all.

I grieve like the rest of sane people at the loss of life that has happened today in the fires , but Jumbo , some of your reasoning is way way out there with the fairies ,,,, "handcuffs and being chucked in the back of a van ,so be it"
this is Australia 2009 , not Germany 1939.

If anything is to be learnt from this tragedy it will be that nature cannot be tamed and the cycle of drought / fire / flood is an integral part of the Australian landscape.

Pulling people out in handcuffs just isn't feasable, there is too many people, and if you tried, there would be a certain % of people who would refuse to go on principle. You would just end up putting police in needless danger.

If money is going to be put into this (and no doubt it will be done, I'm surprised Rudd hasn't offered a couple of billion yet), I'd much rather see it go into making sure the cfa trucks are all up to scratch, alert systems, public information campaigns, slabs of beer for all the volunteers, etc.

Its sad, but it seems we need to learn this Australian fire lesson every 15 or 20 years.

Axel,

Now is not the time for personal vendettas.

Let it go. Petty point scoring pales into insignificance.

People have died needlessly. Please respect that.

Jim.

goodday jim
you have to realise that some never had time to escape the fire went thru so quick they didnt necessarily stay to protect just never had time some had only 2/3 minutes notice
daughters friends timed it as they were getting ready to go fire travelled about 25ks in 20 mins you dont have time to react as most times you are panicked trying to think what to do and where to go son in law sent daughter to my mother in laws fortunately they are some of the lucky 1s fire went around but a different wind change would have taken there farm as well

steve

Steve,

I understand that, but a lot of areas were under threat from last Thursday with a very clear weather warning.

For me, if I was in an area with the slightest threat, I'd just pack up and shoot through a day or two before.

Cheers,

Jim.

Jumbo ,nothing personal at all , just remember that your perfect vision which is nought but hindsight is worth nothing. " the slightest threat ,I,d pack up and shoot through a day or two before " COWARD , leave it for someone else to battle. , nothing personal .,,

It's difficult isn't it. Try to legislate for all possibilities and a government is told they are creating a "Nanny State". Don't legislate? A government of any persuasion is on a hiding to nothing when this sort of event strikes.
Back in the 1930's, in the timber cutting areas, it was common for buildings to have a fire bunker. Something like a bomb shelter dug into the ground with a flat tin roof that people could retreat into. If we can legislate cyclone protection standards for tropical areas post Tracey, maybe something like this should be in the building code as well.

Not a bad idea, I would love for cellars to become standard in Australia, would be damn handy things, and if every house had them, the cost of building them should come down.

Actually, the current system in Victoria comes out of the Ash Wednesday fires

The CFA policy which they tell all living in bush fire areas is that if you don't feel you are capable of defending your properly prepared house you get out early. You either stay and be prepared to defend or go early (and make sure you have good insurance cover)

Use this is the basis of your fire plan

The suggestion at community meetings is go to a shopping centre at 8 am and stay there all day if you are not willing to stay and defend.

The worst thing is not to make a decision, but attempt leave at the last moment. The worst place to be in a fire is in the open; next worst is in a car. A house, properly prepared and defended, is the safest.

Forced evacuations are probably as bad; forcing people out of the safety of their own homes and into cars when the fire is on their doorsteps is unsafe, all those cars of the trying to leave along narrow smoke filled roads... we saw on Saturday what happens

Put them in handcuffs? Who? The police? They should be there to control traffic, not throw people into the back of a divvie van. A divvie van full of people entering into a fire zone

All these ideas are great if you have time to plan or the fire is a day away. Different matter if the fire is 10 minutes away

Read some of the literature that was printed in the aftermath of Ash Wednesday by the CFA, CSIRO and others and some of the statistics...people in a properly defended and prepared house don't die, those in the open do

Maybe bushfire safety should be taught in schools along with water safety

you guys are away with the fairrys

as far as loss of life and severe injury goes who gives a flying frick how the fire started? there is ALWAYS going to be a bolt of lightning, tossed ciggarette, dipcrap with a box of matches and the list goes on

this aint the problem that can be solved

fires dont appear from no where - they have an ignition source and direction of travel


the big problem has been what has been done with this info

is the stay or go motto failing people? is there not good enough info to get people to evacuate? are evacuation procedures inaequte/non existant?

stop caring way the fire started thats never going to change and cant be controlled never has never will

start caring WHY pople were left sitting in front of a fire burning for many hours or even days and THEN your care factor may be pointed in the right direction

I heard a womman on the news telling of her father, a man with 20 years CFA experience.

He had the property fully set up to defend. As the fire approached he realised he had no hope. The conditions were far worse than he had ever encountered. He bailed out with his 78 yo Mum and drove to dam and got in. They lived.

Under some conditions a house may be defendable, but with 80 km/h winds blowing through the fire the intense heat arives well before the flames.

I saw on the news footage of houses bursting into flames before the fire got to them. The radiant heat was like a blow torch.

Something has to be learned from this. The advice as early as Wednesday last week was that the conditions were going to be worse than Ash Wednesday. Sadly it has proven to be true.

The only solution I see is for the experts to assess the danger areas and order an evacuation well in advance. Most of these fires were burning well before Saturday and predicting their path had been done.

In 2009 for over 100 people to die in fires is not acceptable. This must never happen again.

Jim.

Rob - by now hope you know that all yours are safe - we have heard this morning that our three friends in Marysville are OK - they have managed to save Crystal Journey - but lost their own house.
Now I hear the Prom is closed - what next??Jules

Unfortunately Julie its a long way from being finished.

Its still dry, its still windy, no rain and the fires are still burning across the state.

Hi Guys

We have just heard on radio urgent threat messages issued for Molesworth to Alexandra rd area , in the valley below our place but still 5km away.

The fire front is now visible at our place according to local CFA friend.

We are in melbourne - I made it in and out yesterday , I am very tempted but I don't think I will go back,
Other vehicle with us yesterday staked a tyre on all the fallen debris and this could be enough to get you killed.
But sitting here listening to news its like having someone twisting a knife slowly in your guts.

Our friends we were with last night have lost there house to- but no people.

Good to see some of your news is better now Julie.

Robin