Extractors for Petrol V8

Submitted: Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:50
ThreadID: 65909 Views:4622 Replies:11 FollowUps:11
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Hi
Has anyone fitted extractors to their L/C 100 series petrol V8, and if so happy with the result. I am thinking of re chipping and extractors.
Thanks
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Reply By: Lotzi - Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:59

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:59
Saw a set (Pacemaker?) fitted at the local exhaust shop, including free flow mufflers and bigger exhaust.

Don't know whether they worked in the long term, but after the test drive, owner had the type of grin that a young fella has after reading his first Playboy.

Sound was music ... but out on the road with a load may droan a bit.
AnswerID: 348707

Reply By: Member - Matt (Perth-WA) - Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 11:25

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 11:25
Cape Kid...this might sound a little contentious but its my opinon.

Extractors on modern vehicles are not the improvement they used to be, my reasons...

1. Older vehicle exhaust systems used to dump all exhaust into one cast manifold and then turn 90deg and drop into one thin exhaust pipe. So fitting an interferance fit extractor and free flow exhaust improved the flow vastly.

It has been many years since manufacturerts have done this and the manifolds now are actually a header in design..that is they are free flowing and cast so that the firing order of exhaust gas assists in the scavenging of the next charge.

So the advantage is less and less now as our vehicles get more and more well designed. (you would need to get a mechanic to look at the LC exhaust to see if there is room for improvement in the header design)

2. The quality of the headers varies VASTLY... and some are NOT an improvement over the cast manifold if it is a header type from factory...The mounting plates can be restrictive if they havent been port matched and the welds and construction of the collector pipes can and do restrict or disturb the free flow of the gas.

3. The heat shields on factory ehaust systems are there for a reason and protect some pretty vital parts under the bonnet. Not uncommon on older cars to 'cook' the starter motors etc that had heat shields before and were removed when fitting extractors. Look at other areas like clutch master cylinder, wiring looms, aircon hoses etc that would be exposed to radiated heat if the factory header was to be removed.

4. Generally the most restrictive piece of a modern petrol exhaust are the catalytic converter/s. These can be replaced with high flow items at a large cost but CANNOT be removed.

I suggest the large smiles that some have after spending thousands on an extractor and exhaust system is the sound of the exhaust now with the new muffler and the rest is all in their mind.

You may get a dyno proven result with just high flow catts and freeflow system but I doubt the extractors will do much at all.

Talk to some experts...(not exhaust shops, they have a vested interest in selling you a system) but a reputable dyno tune specialist and ask if they have any data on LC improvements/recommendations they could pass onto you.

Good luck with it...it is a very expensive mod that can give you little more than a drone nowdays.

Matt.



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Follow Up By: Nic I (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 13:53

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 13:53
Very interesting Matt, and matches my experience with petrol vehicles over the years I've had 'em.

Do the same points apply to dump pipes on diesel motors (which i have very little experience with) ?
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Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 14:41

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 14:41
I would concur with all of Matt's comments, dyno figures would be required to temp me. Nowdays High Performance Coatings can take care of the heat issues however I strongly believe nowdays you leave modern vehicles as they are, if power or economy isn't good enough you buy another vehicle. This attitude comes with age off course, I would never expect to convince a young guy who wants the experience for so many reasons.

The 200 Series Cruiser Diesel vs Petrol is an interesting argument, die hard 4WD drivers will always take the diesel for range and torque however the Diesel doesn't head the petrol in value until you have reached 300,000kms.!
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt (Perth-WA) - Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 15:05

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 15:05
Nic...you want me to open that can of worms...hahahha!

Mate the opinons of dump pipes and advantages/dis are as diverse as the variables involved in the vehicles you look at.

The only way to know for sure is dyno before and dyno after. Some vehicles responed well to dump pipe increases and some dont. Some respond well in one area but lose in another...there is no set standard.

Additionally the rest of the system can change the results too, having different outcomes from the same dump pipe construction but dependant on the remaining of the exhaust layout.

The thermodynaics involved in turbos and exhaust system design make it impossible to give a straight answer..Sorry every application is different and results can only be tested with dyno results of torque and HP across the entire rev range.

Me...Im of the opinon that small turbo applications dont respond all that well to dump pipe and while you might gain in top end you lose substantially in bottom end. Remember a restriction actually increases air speed across it and this can aid in the turbo operation in some cases.

So I went 2.5 pipe but left the standard dump pipe...this enabled me to not have to remove the heat shilelding and protect my clutch master and heater/coolant hoses that would have been cooked otherwise. With no dyno results but running beside my wifes car with the same 4JB1t engine it leaves her for dead in both take-off and acceleration at higher speed.

So Im happy, I required more torque at low RPM and better driveability for overtaking with the trailer at higher speed.

All the best
Matt.

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Follow Up By: Nic I (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 15:23

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 15:23
Thanks Matt, I'm very glad you contributed to this post, because I'll now do heaps more research before embarking on my previously firm plan of an aftermarket ceramic coated dump pipe and 2.75" exhaust for the ute - an 08 Patrol 3L CRTD.

Maybe, like you, it will prove that my best bet is to simply fit the slightly bigger exhaust system, leaving the dump pipe standard, especially as I also want more low-end torque, not upper range power.
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt (Perth-WA) - Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 16:45

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 16:45
Yep sounds like a smart move Nic...that might be a perfect combination for the Patrol but I would be chatting to a few on the Patrol forums and maybe your dealer??

The new TDs also have 3 stage catalytic converters in them and most have controlled burns that the engine management computer overfuels for a period to burn off NOx and/or particulate in the exhaust...something that might be disrupted by an after market system.

They are getting more sensitive to modifications nowdays...not worth it in some instances..the concequences can be costly and unwarranted.

Goodluck and all the best
Matt.

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Reply By: Member - David K (VIC) - Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 11:55

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 11:55
Hi Cape Kid,

Go to www.lcool.org and search the forum. Lots of fantastic advice for all L/C owners.

AnswerID: 348715

Reply By: Rangiephil - Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 12:21

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 12:21
I must say I agreed with the above post until someone posted a picture of LCV8 exhaust manifolds.
In the photo anyway they were like an old Ford V8, just a log with a pipe out the end.
So extractors may give an increase in power.
Usually the increase is mostly from the modified exhaust.
Regards Philip A
AnswerID: 348718

Reply By: Supercalafreakinawesome- Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 13:30

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 13:30
Hi Cape Kid,
Here's some info to start you off

http://www.lcool.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3671

Cheers
AnswerID: 348723

Follow Up By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 16:03

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 16:03
You have to be a member of LCOOL to access this site
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Follow Up By: Supercalafreakinawesome- Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 19:25

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 19:25
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt (Perth-WA) - Friday, Feb 13, 2009 at 14:43

Friday, Feb 13, 2009 at 14:43
Super....that has to be the WORST factory manifold I have ever seen....reminicent of the old holden 186 etc...only worse!!

I can see the extractors (even if not tuned length) would be a vast improvement over that factory manifold.

I can only guess they did it for engine bay room. The photo isnt your vehicle (Vic not Qld) but Im just wondering how close the new extractors run to other components in the engine bay now.

Did it make a big difference on yours?

Matt.

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Follow Up By: Paul (WA) - Friday, Feb 13, 2009 at 16:29

Friday, Feb 13, 2009 at 16:29
Matt,

I had an exhaust system fitted to my vehicle about 2 years ago (see profile and picture of original manifold).

I also had a Unichip fitted after the exhaust system by Armadale 4wd in Perth. No issues with this since fitting.

Exhaust system and extractors gave around 5 % power increase

Unichip added another 10% (based on before and after dyno)

Armadale 4wd said that if I had fitted a Beaudesert Exhausts system, I would have achieved 15% power increase prior to fitting the Unichip (apparently dyno results reflect this).

Fuel dependent on how the vehicle is driven.

Clearance between extractors and other engine components is not an issue.

You can definitely notice the difference in response before and after both exhaust system and Unichip installation.

Paul

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Follow Up By: Supercalafreakinawesome- Friday, Feb 13, 2009 at 16:51

Friday, Feb 13, 2009 at 16:51
Hi Matt,
yes the extractors I got fitted were a vast improvement over the factory ones. Still seem to have ample clearance around the engine bay etc. My results were very similar to Baz & Pud (Tassie) in that I gained a little in fuel consumption and it holds better on the hills when towing 2300kgs.

The only trouble I had was that at the time I also got high flow catalytic converters fitted and this messed around with the O2 sensors which after about 500km caused the ECU to make the engine run a bit slugish and engine management light to come on. After I had those replaced (free of charge) everything has been working fine.

I would loved to have been able to leave the high flow cat's in as the power increase was really noticeable. But I am very happy with the setup I have, after all I was originally only looking for a bit more torque for towing.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt (Perth-WA) - Saturday, Feb 14, 2009 at 14:06

Saturday, Feb 14, 2009 at 14:06
Cheers Super... Guess we can let Cake Kid know that there still are vehicles being produced that can benefit from an extractor fitout.

Glad you are happy...sounds like a great vehicle to drive.

All the best
Matt
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FollowupID: 617243

Reply By: Member - Matt (Perth-WA) - Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 15:10

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 15:10
Cape Kid...this would certainly make a difference...not sure about reliability though!!!

Supercharger

Matt.
AnswerID: 348735

Reply By: Baz&Pud (Tassie) - Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 17:15

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 17:15
We have a 2002 V8 petrol and fitted extractors and 3 inch pipe to travelling to West Aus last year towing a 18' caravan weighing in at 3 ton. The end result is; 1. Now sounds like a V8.
2. The motor now hangs on a lot longer due to exhaust getting away quicker.
3. Vehicle now has more grunt.
4. Fuel economy has increased by 1kpl which meant that on our trip this paid for the set up.
Go for it.
Baz
Go caravaning, life is so much shorter than death.

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AnswerID: 348748

Reply By: Member - DOZER- Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 17:45

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 17:45
I would suggest you have a look on www.lcool.org. In the 100 series forum, there are piccies of the std vs extracters plus who does em plus a video of the car afterwards rumble rumble...
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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AnswerID: 348755

Reply By: Steve Sub - Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 22:59

Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 at 22:59
I have no experience with Extractors on petrol Landcruisers but in my experience which includesl racing cars for nearly 30 years, fitting extractors to an otherwise standard petrol engine makes virtually no difference to the performance.

There is a perceived performance increase which is usually the extra noise that sounds great but on a dyno or against the stop watch, extractors generally are not worth the $$.

However that changes if you find a way to get more fuel into the engine, modify heads, valves, cams, etc when they do help a lot.

Do your research and DO NOT talk to the exhaust shops as all they want to do is sell you extractors. Try to get exact before and after figures done on a dyno or via a stopwatch from someone who has been there done that before you buy to see if the extra increase?? in power/economy is worth while.

Also having a noisy exhaust does get on your wick if you are travelling long distances unless you are what I would call a youngster - but you can fit extractors with a quiet exhaust if the fitter knows what he is up to.

Also let the insurance company know what you have or are intending to do as they WILL want to know. If you do not tell them, they may walk if you ever make a claim and you will be un-insured - expensive.

Stevesub
AnswerID: 348802

Reply By: bass_straitener - Friday, Feb 13, 2009 at 11:51

Friday, Feb 13, 2009 at 11:51
This topic has been a real eye opener for me as I just about to splash some cash on a set of extractors and exhaust.

I have a question regarding vehicles fitted with gas. I have a 105 series petrol cruiser, on gas, that I was going to install extractors and a high flow exhaust from the cat back. The reason wasn't so much any extra power benefit, but to clear the exhaust faster possibly reducing the under bonnet temperature.

Is this not going to aid in this situation?

Any help or advice would be most appreciated.

Regards,

Bruce
AnswerID: 348839

Reply By: Cape Kid - Sunday, Feb 15, 2009 at 10:10

Sunday, Feb 15, 2009 at 10:10
Hi All
Thanks everyone for your reply's. Some good information to digest.
Cheers
Cape Kid
AnswerID: 349142

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