Polarity of 12 Volt Plugs and Sockets

Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 15:21
ThreadID: 66072 Views:9196 Replies:9 FollowUps:21
This Thread has been Archived
Need to run my 240 volt shaver from an inverter. Bought the socket to wire into the battery and the plug to wire into the Inverter.

When I queried the polarity of the plug/socket was told there is no standard. I am going to connct the earth (neg) to the vertical pin on the Plug/socket and the positive to the horizontal pin. This to me seems to fit in with 240vac plugs where the earth is the vertical pin.

Comments appreciated.

Peter
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Foxhound (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 15:32

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 15:32
Well I may get some argument here, but the way you suggested is correct. The way I was taught many years back was if you look at the pins from the front then draw a line up from the vertical pin through the horizontal pin you get a cross or positive sign. However I have seen a few wired opposite to that. As long as yours is both wired the same you will be right.
AnswerID: 349660

Follow Up By: Maîneÿ (wa) has - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 16:07

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 16:07
Must be a (WA) thing as I also agree, the 'horizontal' is POS (+)

Mainey . . .
0
FollowupID: 617935

Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 16:00

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 16:00
There are two possible ways you can wire up a 2 pin connector - and that why there a two "standards" for polarity of the T connector.

A very good reason to avoid the T connector and use the Anderson Connectors. The Grey connectors have polarity moulded into the body and the Red/Black Powerpoles have obvious polarity.

AnswerID: 349662

Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:07

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:07
I second that emotion...

Except I would use Hella plugs and sockets. All marked with centre +ve.

I just think they are neater, that's all.



I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
- Augustus McCrae (Lonesome Dove)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 617979

Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Thoughtfully- Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 16:37

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 16:37
roll me in pig fat and poke me with a stick, but there is a standard in Australia for 240v AC sockets and its a three pin setup. Doesn't your shaver have one of them on the end of its lead?

In the three pin case the top lefthand is the active and righthand is the neutral and the bottom vertical pin is the earth.

I have the two pin Horiz / vertical plugs installed in my vehicle but for 12v only and wired as you suggested.
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

AnswerID: 349674

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thoughtfully- Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 16:38

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 16:38
Yannow one should read these posts like 5 times. If you're wiring 12v I agree with you your assertion as I mentioned above hahahah
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 617948

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 07:50

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 07:50
"roll me in pig fat and poke me with a stick"

Pervert :-)

0
FollowupID: 618098

Follow Up By: RV Powerstream P/L - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 09:04

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 09:04
Geoff said Interpretation can get people into trouble you at least should have asked was the stick poking done while the spit was rotating as he might have a cooking aversion rather than a perversion.
Ian
0
FollowupID: 618104

Reply By: Maîneÿ (wa) has - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 16:58

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 16:58
Have pulled apart some 12v and also a 240v plugs and sockets for a look to see if there are (+) and (-) marks in there for reference points.
There was no reference points for (+) and (-) wires on either sets, however there was a reference point for the 'green' wire on the two 240v plugs.
That's not to suggest it's not written in an obscure 'book' somewhere?

Mainey . . .
AnswerID: 349677

Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 19:45

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 19:45
Mainey,

The "obscure" book is AS3000 otherwise known as the Standards Australia Wiring Rules.

Geoff

Geoff,
Landcruiser HDJ78,
Grey hair is hereditary, you get it from children. Baldness is caused by watching the Wallabies.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 618003

Follow Up By: Maîneÿ (wa) has - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 20:24

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 20:24
Geof,
Good to see you have one
can you copy/paste the relevant sentence or specs here please ?

That will clear it up once an for all !!

Mainey . . .
0
FollowupID: 618014

Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 20:34

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 20:34
Hi Mainey,

No I won't publish extracts.

The way the standards and rules are written today if I publish on a public website my interpretation and someone uses it to kill themselves I'm liable.

I have a licence and prior learning that says I understand the electrical component of the Standards Australia rules.

Therefore I will not publish extracts from the Australian Standards.

Geoff

Geoff,
Landcruiser HDJ78,
Grey hair is hereditary, you get it from children. Baldness is caused by watching the Wallabies.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 618017

Follow Up By: Maîneÿ (wa) has - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 21:28

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 21:28
Geof, then please assist me to understand a bit better, we are talking about " the socket to wire INTO THE BATTERY and the plug to wire INTO THE INVERTER "

* this is a 12 Volt cable between the Battery and Inverter *

It's not the Inverter outlet cable which definitely is 240 Volt and as such yes it has to be wired accordingly.

Is the information about the 12v plugs mentioned above actually stated in the same "AS3000" book ?

Mainey . . .
0
FollowupID: 618035

Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 22:27

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 22:27
Hi Mainey,

This is a link to Standards Australia web site for things electrical, Standards Australia

There's also a couple more around 3001 to 3005 that cover campers, camper trailers, boats, marina's etc that need to be read in conjunction with AS3000.

Geoff

Geoff,
Landcruiser HDJ78,
Grey hair is hereditary, you get it from children. Baldness is caused by watching the Wallabies.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 618063

Follow Up By: RV Powerstream P/L - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 08:28

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 08:28
Geoff
There has been a recent upgrade AS3001:2008 Electrical Installations-Transportable Structures and Vehicles including their site supplies.
In the preface it states the Standard differs from As/NZS 3001:2001 in several aspects.

One such aspect is Grouped as
(c)Diagrams showing the recommended method of connecting a transportable structure to a generator set/inverter have been added.

The Standard is available from SAI-Global the sales arm of Standards Australia.
Ian
0
FollowupID: 618101

Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 17:55

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 17:55
Geoff

I don't think that extra low voltage connectors rate a mention in the AUS/NZ standards - or at least the 2 pin polarised connectors don't. That is why the connectors are not labelled with polarity symbols. Could you please confirm or correct this.

PeterD
PeterD
Retired radio and electronics technician

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 618196

Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 18:33

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 18:33
Hi Peter,
I think you'll find the 2 pin polarised plug and socket aren't polarity marked because they are rated as 32V AC, 10Amp and intended for use on ungrounded transformer secondaries. (A non-MEN system so to speak)

As such there is no polarity in the system, it changes 50 times per second. Meaning there is little point marking polarity on something that doesn't have any.

I hope that helps,

Geoff
Geoff,
Landcruiser HDJ78,
Grey hair is hereditary, you get it from children. Baldness is caused by watching the Wallabies.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 618206

Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 18:40

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 18:40
Thanks Ian,

"There has been a recent upgrade AS3001:2008 Electrical Installations-Transportable Structures and Vehicles including their site supplies. "

I'll have to give our "Quality Manager" a prod tomorrow as he's dropped the ball on this one!

I haven't seen my copy yet!

Geoff

Geoff,
Landcruiser HDJ78,
Grey hair is hereditary, you get it from children. Baldness is caused by watching the Wallabies.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 618207

Follow Up By: Maîneÿ (wa) has - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 18:42

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 18:42
Geoff,
have just looked at two of my "two pin 12v plugs" and they are marked as "extra low Voltage - 15 Amp"

Mainey . . .
0
FollowupID: 618208

Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 19:15

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 19:15
Geoff

I don't think that extra low voltage connectors rate a mention in the AUS/NZ standards - or at least the 2 pin polarised connectors don't. That is why the connectors are not labelled with polarity symbols. Could you please confirm or correct this.

PeterD
PeterD
Retired radio and electronics technician

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 618216

Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 19:18

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 19:18
Disregard FollowUp 11 - something playing up this end sent it twice.

PeterD
PeterD
Retired radio and electronics technician

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 618218

Reply By: P7OFFROAD Accredited Driver Training - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 17:06

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 17:06
I've always gone with...

hold the plug so that it makes a "T"

Positive is bigger then negative, therefore positive on top.


This is how all my gear is done, but I have found that some people do it the other way.


cheers

Dave
AnswerID: 349683

Reply By: RV Powerstream P/L - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:01

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:01
Mike is right in saying use Anderson Plugs or Power Poles they are genderless and are easy to identify for positive and negative and you can now get a Chassis mount flush fitting that takes two sets of either 15A 30A or 45A Power Poles that can replace Cig sockets in vehicles.
There is also a 30A distribution panel that takes power in and gives 4x fused outlets plus a double USB outlet.
Ian
AnswerID: 349692

Reply By: Member - Keith C (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:37

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:37
G/day PiSA,I don`t mean to throw a spanner in but,most 240/12 Transformers in c/vans have a 2 pin on the 12v end and the positive pole is the Vertical pin ,don`t know about inverters, Maybe with transformers it`s an unwritten rule but all the vans i`ve had have been vertical positive for 12volt .Hope this helps.

Regards,
AnswerID: 349699

Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 17:48

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 17:48
Keith

Transformers do not have a DC output, they have an AC output. May be you are talking about power supplies. Please get your terminology correct or you create uncertainty and confusion in these threads.

PeterD
PeterD
Retired radio and electronics technician

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 618195

Reply By: ABR - SIDEWINDER - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 19:14

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 19:14
Hi Peter

I would recommend using Anderson plugs as suggested. I don't know what size your inverter is but it may require heavier cable than the ELV socket / plug you are using can take.

Make sure to increase your cable size to combat voltage drop over distance otherwise your inverter may go into low voltage protection half way through your shave.

Regards

Derek from ABR
AnswerID: 349704

Reply By: Maîneÿ (wa) has - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 00:33

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 00:33
This post is about the "Polarity of 12 Volt Plugs and Sockets"

Peter needs to run his 240 volt shaver from an inverter.
He has bought the SOCKET to wire *into the battery* and the PLUG to wire *into the Inverter* this is a 12v (nominal) cable not 240 Volt.

Peter is asking about connecting the earth (neg) cable to the Vertical pin on the Plug/socket and the positive (pos) to the Horizontal pin.
As I read the post these are 2 x single cable connections, with the (+) to (+) and (-) to (-) at each end of each individual cable, they will NOT interchange current with each other as they are individual cables, just like an 'extension' cable is.

As I read it, it's not relevant to 240 Volt connections because the cable is 12 Volt (nominal) between the Battery and the Inverter!

The lead out of the Inverter is definitely 240v and a conventional 240v power board can be plugged in to the Inverter 240v outlet socket to supply power to the shaver and various other 240v accessories. Image Could Not Be FoundMainey . . .

AnswerID: 349798

Follow Up By: RV Powerstream P/L - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 08:51

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 08:51
Mainey
I listed As/NZS 3001:2008 as reference information but Geoff is correct in his statement as Notes in this Standard under
3.4.4.4 Isolation Requirements for on -board and plug connected generators and inverters notes

(2)The extra-low voltage d.c wiring to the inverter input or the d.c.source of supply source is not detailed in this standard.
AS/NZS 3000 provides this information.

AS/NZS3001 2008 is a recommendation which may be legislated in the future but AS/NZS3000:2007 is legislated and legally binding on everyone to comply.
Ian
0
FollowupID: 618103

Follow Up By: Maîneÿ (wa) has - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 09:36

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 09:36
So now we need a certificate of 'worthiness' when we do our own or for others or have done ANY 12v work on vehicles because it have to comply with AS/NZS 3000 ??

However the original post question remains, would it be given this 'tick of approval' under AS/NZS 3000 ??

I've seen some pretty dodgy wiring set-ups !!

Mainey . . .
0
FollowupID: 618111

Follow Up By: RV Powerstream P/L - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 16:57

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 16:57
Mainey
No one may ever police it but if your name is on an installation and someone gets killed or injured they will look for a scape goat and and Im bloody sure my name is not going to be Billy and neither should yours be.
To requote AS/NZS 3000 is legislated and is legally binding whereas a lot of other standards are recommendations of good and acceptable practice.
Ian

0
FollowupID: 618183

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (14)