Advice needed Please {Gas bottle inside C/T}

Submitted: Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:17
ThreadID: 66146 Views:9630 Replies:16 FollowUps:22
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Does any one see any problems with this,i have the 2kg bottle inside the crate with foam around it and zipped tied down to the crate,the crate is sitting in a container that we use for the shower and i would be placing it inside the storage area under the bed whole travelling.cheer's GREENDOGImage Could Not Be Found
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Reply By: Willem - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:26

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:26
No.
AnswerID: 350134

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 21:36

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 21:36
Another No.

Make sure the tap is turned off hard (obvious I know) and it is safer than your fuel tank.

Too many pontificators these days telling you how to protect your life.

I've been carrying Gas Botttles in the car for years. Tap off, packed well, no danger.

Cheers,

Jim.

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FollowupID: 618466

Reply By: RV Powerstream P/L - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:27

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:27
Dangerous and potentially illegal .
Gas bottles should not be carried in an enclosed unvented area .
Gas bottles should be in a separate enclosed compartment vented to the outside from the lowest part of the compartment.
The gas is heavier than air and if for any reason your bottle leaks the gas with go to the floor and if it cannot escape out will be waiting around to give you a big bang.
I hope you dont smoke.
I think others will tell you the same thing.
Ian
AnswerID: 350135

Follow Up By: Member - GREENDOG - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:31

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:31
Ian i do'nt smoke,but your info is very handy,so i guess i'll have to think about getting something done to the out side of the camper
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Reply By: Member - Paul Mac (VIC) - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:29

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:29
G'day Greendog,

I don't see a huge problem doing this. I know with the bigger cylinders they say not to carry them in the back of a car but I also store my 2kg bottle (used for the shower) in the camper. I just make sure its not going to bang around and there is certainly nothing in the camper that would spark and create an explosion. I think you should be fine.

Cheers.
AnswerID: 350136

Reply By: Member - Lance S (VIC) - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:31

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:31
Greendog, what you have done there, the bottle will be as snug in a rug. But they do say that bottles should be in the open.

cheers,

Lance
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AnswerID: 350137

Follow Up By: Member - GREENDOG - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:36

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:36
Thanks Lance yeah i know gas bottle's need to be out in the open for them to breath and all,but this is only a small one and it would'nt be in there for to long,but if it's a risk of some thing going wrong i'd rather not put it in there
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Reply By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:36

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:36
Gday Green Dog
I spose after a hard night with the misses,and the obligatory cigy, the inevitable gas leak, that should give you and your darling a bit of a lift..
Murray
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AnswerID: 350139

Follow Up By: Member - GREENDOG - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:40

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:40
MMM come to think of it Mrs GREENDOG lets them rip abit in bed going on past vapours maybe it would be a good idea to put it some where else LOL
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FollowupID: 618455

Reply By: Louie the fly (SA) - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:36

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:36
Yo dog, s'up? A wise'ish, old'ish man once said on here "we worry too much about things like this".

Found this on the energy.sa.gov.au website. Note paragraphs 4 & 4.

All cylinders sold in Australia must meet strict specifications. LPG cylinders are certified for ten years. When they are out of date they need to be recertified or replaced. It is illegal to fill a "time expired" LPG cylinder.

A dew line may appear around the cylinder when an appliance is operating, indicating the level of liquid inside. This is not uncommon or dangerous. An ice build-up around the cylinder may occur in exceptional circumstances and is indicating the gas demand is exceeding the supply available, in which case, the cylinder will need to be refilled or a larger cylinder used.

Always transport, store and use portable LPG cylinders in an upright position. (Forklift and autogas cylinders are the exception to this rule.)

Keep cylinders secure during transport, and don't carry them in the passenger compartment. Use a sealing plug in the cylinder valve when the appliance is not connected.

Cylinders kept in a car during summer could overheat and exceed their maximum service temperature, so avoid doing this - it could cause the safety valve to operate, filling the car with LPG vapour. If you need to transport a portable LPG cylinder in a vehicle during hot weather keep it upright and wrap it in a wet towel to keep it cool.

Never tamper with the safety valve, cylinder fittings, or use undue force on the cylinder valve.

Always store cylinders upright, outdoors and in a well ventilated area away from excess heat and possible sources of ignition.

If the cylinder has been damaged by fire or heat, or has suffered physical damage, it should be inspected at an authorised test station before refilling. It should also be inspected if it is rusty (especially underneath).

Shut off the cylinder valve before disconnecting. When replacing a portable cylinder, ensure the appliance is turned off.

When replacing one of a pair of cylinders on a permanent installation, LPG appliances may need to be turned off, unless an automatic changeover valve is fitted.

Fly.
AnswerID: 350140

Follow Up By: Member - GREENDOG - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:42

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:42
Thanks Louie for all info
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FollowupID: 618456

Reply By: Rockape - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:37

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:37
There is risk in anything we do, stuff up and bang.

Shut the valve and the bang goes away.

Do it easy
AnswerID: 350141

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:51

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:51
Nurphys law comes to mind.
Whatever will go wrong will, usually at the worst possible time.

It is illegal to carry gas bottles in an enclosed enviroment such as a car except to carry them home from a filling shop and even then its frowned upon.
They are usually carried in a holder like a jerry can holder on the outside of the trailer.


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FollowupID: 618458

Follow Up By: Member - GREENDOG - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:56

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 20:56
I do have a gas holer on the C/T but i need to find the money and the right guy to set it up for me {e.g drilling a hole through the side of the camper for the gas lead and sercuring the bottle to the holder.cheer's
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FollowupID: 618459

Follow Up By: Member - Bill F (VIC) - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 21:27

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 21:27
Hi Grahan H
I do not Know you
Please Quote the Law or State Legistration when you as a Member state that is "ILLEGAL" to do as you stated.

I have not been answered with any solid Law or State Legislation any time I have asked this question on this FORUM for any state in Australia so if I do not get a reply again I will know it is scare mongering on behalf of vested interests or a questionable explosion of a "vehicle" of questionable installation

Check thread numbers 64681 and 56269

Bill F
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 21:34

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 21:34
My thought Greendog is if you are asking this question then you probably already know the answer.
About 12 years ago a young plumber I knew well ( he and his parents lived across the road from where we used to live) opened his Hi Ace van door to go to work and either a spark from the door light switch or his cigarette leaked gas from a 2 kg cylinder in the van.The van completely disintergrated and separated from the chassis
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FollowupID: 618465

Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 21:37

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 21:37
Whoops, wrong button. Sorry.
and some of it ,including his ladder and rack cleared two rows of houses and ended up in the next street. It blew out the windows of all the surrounding houses and knocked his younger brother back down the driveway.
This stuff is b....dy dangerous.
Do not carry it inside any vehicle unless legally vented.
You have been warned!
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FollowupID: 618467

Follow Up By: RV Powerstream P/L - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 21:57

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 21:57
Bill F
I dont think you have asked the right people in the past and Im not indicating that Graham H or myself are qualified either but you live in Victoria where the Standards Committees for Gas appear to mostly be.

A quick call to your gas authority there might be the way to go.

Not withstanding that ask any auto gas installer if he can fit an open valved gas tank inside a car and he will say no you have to have an enclosed valve unit sealed and vented to the outside.

There are regulations for gas bottles in all Motorhomes,Caravans and Campers ask a manufacturer or a certified gas installer and fortheseinstallations he is a plumber with a gas ticket

Ian

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FollowupID: 618470

Follow Up By: Member - Bill F (VIC) - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 22:33

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 22:33
Ian or as indicated by Ian Graham H

If you cannot tell me the regulations re the bottles we all use for camping DO NOT CONFUSE the issue with LPG bottles used for powering vehicles

so if I do not get a reply again I will know it is scare mongering on behalf of vested interests or a questionable explosion of a "vehicle" of questionable installation

I do not require a PLUMBER YET for a portable stove

BILLF
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 22:42

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 22:42
The cylinder was a 2kg plumbers type, not a vehicle powering one. I was only trying to warn those who "think it will be ok". I really don't mind what you do just don't camp near me.
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FollowupID: 618480

Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 23:08

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 23:08
Are you sure the cylinder in question wasn't acetylene?

You do need a plumber or gas fitter for any stove that is permanently connected to a gas bottle, eg: if the kitchen can be opened or closed with the cylinder connected.
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FollowupID: 618485

Follow Up By: RV Powerstream P/L - Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 16:25

Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 16:25
I dont care whether its a vehicle drive cylinder or a loose cylinder if it can vent inside the vehicle it can create a dangerous situation.

If you were fair dinkum you should would have looked outside this firum to get your qestion answered after what you say was an unsuitable reponse.

Your remark re "If I dont get a further response"is one that misconstruing the intent of posters posting for the concern of safety of others and that is what my and I would presumeto say Graham H's vested interest is and nothing more.

Of course you dont need a plumber to connect your portable stove to a portable gas bottle but that has nothing to do with where you can carry the bottle.

The gas committe in Victoria appears to be leading the other states go to them and get proper advise and stop nit picking with everything that doesnt suit you.
Ian
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FollowupID: 618541

Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 16:48

Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 16:48
Well said mate.
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FollowupID: 618543

Follow Up By: RV Powerstream P/L - Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 17:22

Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 17:22
Just to add .
In the last 15 Minutes I have searched and come up with :
Work Cover NSW.
Transporting of Small Gas Cylinders.
Fact Sheet 2002.

This confirms what I have been saying but does not specifically say it is in a Standard .
Regardless I would hate to be on the screwing end of an Insurance Company Claim knowing that this information existed.

AS2658-2003
LP gas -Portable & Mobile Appliances.

Work Cover refers to
Safe Storage Conditions for various Gases.
AS/NZS 1596:2002 Styarage and handling of LP Gas.

Whether all this confirms the enquiries made in the past I do not know but if I was concerned about it I sure I would not call it scare mongering but get off your butt and findout.

Ian

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FollowupID: 618556

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 19:07

Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 19:07
As far as vested interests are concerned I have none

I cant find the Qland reg but was assured by my Caravan repairer that it is illegal Was also told by the barbeque shop when I got the bottles filled.

A lot of advice on here is mainly to save fools from themselves with some of the stupid and dangerous things that get proposed.
Not necessarily yours but some are.

Like the guy in the van park I am in at the moment who emptied an LPG gas bottle within 25 meteres of 3 vans who all had auto hot water.
You could smell the gas everywhere and if one system had started all hell could have broken loose.

Just an example of theose who dont hink at all about what they are doing.

Safety should always be the first consideration.

If you dont like our well meaning advice go to your local authority and get the correct info.

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FollowupID: 618584

Reply By: Top End Explorer Tours - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 21:33

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 21:33
I did an almost identical thing last year, I did 12000 km then and 14000km the year before, all this without incident it was safe as.

Cheers Steve.

AnswerID: 350152

Reply By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 21:48

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 21:48
This is how the bottle is stored in my camper. It is done like this from the factory by a MAJOR well respected camper supplier.

Image Could Not Be Found

This pic is not actually my camper but mine is the same type. The only difference is that mine has 2 bottles - 1 at each end of the storage lockers.

The lockers do have vent holes in the bottom however. Given that Greendog is putting these in the trailer, I really don't think there is a great risk of blowing everything up. Maybe just provide some type of ventilation (of which there is normally heaps in these types of trailers.

Just my 02.

Cheers,

Mark
AnswerID: 350154

Follow Up By: RV Powerstream P/L - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 22:08

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 22:08
Mark
As you said yours is vented and basically in a seperate compartment and would be considered OK.
I know a certifying engineer that would not accept that as the compartment for the gas should have a separate door unlocked easily accessable in case of problems.

Interpretation of regulations means that there is a lot of variations and they are never tested unless there is an accident .
Ian
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FollowupID: 618472

Reply By: Dandj - Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 08:56

Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 08:56
Check out the requirements for gas installations as summarised here. http://www.cmca.net.au/pages/members/technical_articles/index.php?article_id=110

AnswerID: 350191

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 09:42

Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 09:42
Some years back I saw a campertrailer after it had exploded. Had a gascylinder inside. The LPG slowly leaked and because its heavier than air, just collected (like it would in your plastic container). The guy applied the brakes and that was enough to make it all go bang.

Seen similar happen to the rear end of a 60series, but that guy was silly enough to be running a 3-way fridge off gas in the back while camped.
AnswerID: 350203

Reply By: Member - GREENDOG - Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 14:09

Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 14:09
Thanks guys for all your input i thought i might have been going the un safe way after all it is a gas bottle and it can go Bang,i'll have to have a talk to some one at the camping show to see if they can do some adjustments as in putting in a gas line to the bottle as were it is soposed to be{e.g pic} and tie down points included just hope it does'nt cost alot,again thanks guys.cheer's GREENDOGImage Could Not Be Found
AnswerID: 350236

Reply By: Smudger - Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 15:40

Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 15:40
When I was a kid working for radio station I was sent out to cover a car fire story. I never got close to the car, but I'll never forget the anguish of the man whose 2 little sons died in the inferno in the back seat of his 2 door car. An LPG bottle in the boot had exploded.

NEVER keep any gas bottle in an unventilated space.

LPG gas pools at the lowest space, just like water, so you can't always smell it and you cerainly can't see it. You don't need to be a smoker to ignite it, the poor bugger above was driving, a spark in the boot did it ..could have been metal-on-metal, or electrics ..who knows?
It may never happen, but ...
AnswerID: 350246

Reply By: DesF - Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 16:36

Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 16:36
Hi, apart from that , what is the go with the pressure cans of gas for the small portable cookers,
we never carry the cans in the unit, but packed seperatley ( wrapped in bubble wrap or rag)iand with the caps on, in the car,
Have been doing this for years and a lot of rough K's.
Just after opinions.
Cheers Des.
ps. for years have carried a 1.5kg/ 2 kg bottle in the car.???
AnswerID: 350254

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 18:59

Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 18:59
According to a site I was on this morning you may carry 2 inside vehicle.



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Follow Up By: DesF - Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 19:09

Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 19:09
Thanks for that Graham. Cheers Des.
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FollowupID: 618585

Reply By: Keith R (Townsville - QLD) - Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 18:09

Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 18:09
If you have an accident your insurance wouldn't pay
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AnswerID: 350277

Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 18:17

Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 18:17
Gday,
Youve heard all the horror storries....probably enough to make you rethink?
But after saying that....I would carry it there as a temperary measure. Just make sure sure the valve is off tight and carry a little squirty bottle with detergent and water in it and leak test it before you put it away. Also stick your nose in the trailer when you get where your going and have a sniff.

Cheers
AnswerID: 350279

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 18:48

Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 at 18:48
Forgot to sat too....you can buy cans of "leak test", its more expensive but probably more convienient.
BOC gases or CIG should have them.
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FollowupID: 618581

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