Clean Fuel

Submitted: Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 00:21
ThreadID: 66485 Views:2813 Replies:4 FollowUps:17
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With so many new diesel vehicle around with common rail dirty fuel can be a problem for them.

Pumping diesel from a 205lt drum could be a problem. The precautions that I already take are

Standing the drum up right and letting the fuel settle before opening

Having the hand pump pick up pipe set about 25mm from the bottom of the drum

Using a clean hand pump

Is there any other way that I can avoid dirty fuel or filter the fuel before it goes into the tank?

The drums of fuel will be at Well 23 on the CRS. I have not had a problem before but will have a Prado in the convey with common rail on the next CSR trip

Wayne
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Reply By: Richard Kovac - Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 00:40

Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 00:40
Wayne

Yes there is. get an in-line filter head and spin on fuel filter element, set it up after the hand pump, this way you can filter the fuel to what ever cleanliness rating of the engine (fuel system) needs before it enters the tank.

and also add a breather filter to the 3/4" bung on the 44 so no dirt or dust enters the drum why pumping this will extend the fuel filter elements life and keep the fuel in the drum clean.

If you need to talk to me you can on 0408925606

Cheers

Richard

PS. if people did more of this, they would have to spend less on chap..
AnswerID: 352107

Follow Up By: guzzi - Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 07:27

Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 07:27
Also stand your drum up the day before you want to use it.
Put a lump of 4x2 under one side and make sure the bung is the highest point. Thats what we used to do when we were refueling aircraft from drum stock.
Use Richards set up for pumping.
Shell mobil etc sell water test kits for testing fuel, if your really worried you could aquire one of these as well.
Reseal the drum if you dont use it all in one go.
Cheers

Pete
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Reply By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 07:32

Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 07:32
Wayne,

You could use one of these filter funnels

Fuel Filter/Funnel.


Cheers Kev
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AnswerID: 352111

Follow Up By: Member - William H (WA) - Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 09:56

Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 09:56
Thanks for the web site Sir Kev.

Mine is on it's way.
Cheers for now.......William H...Bunbury...WA.
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Follow Up By: Member - Ed. C. (QLD) - Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 11:59

Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 11:59
For anyone interested in these funnels, I noticed that my local (Toowoomba) BCF store has them on the shelf...
I guess it would be logical to assume that other (BCF) branches would have them as well...


Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 12:01

Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 12:01
William H (WA)

I was at ARB the other day and they have the full range there as well.

Cheers

Richard
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 12:03

Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 12:03
retract that last statement...

It was at Coventry's


Richard

I think
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 05, 2009 at 10:52

Thursday, Mar 05, 2009 at 10:52
Sir Kev,

Had a look at the funnels at BCF, $129 for the funnel that would suit our requirements.

I had not been in that shop before so I had a bit of a look around. They do have some good stuff.

Thanks for the info.

PS If anyone is trying to work out what BCF stands for, like I was, it is Boating Camping Fishing. As the name suggest has just about everything for boating camping, fishing.

Wayne
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 08:58

Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 08:58
If filling from a 44gallon drum, I'd be using that fuel to refill jerries. I think 25mm off the bottom is a bit close for comfort, so with my degree of paranoia, I'd have it 6 inches off the bottom.

My preference is to have diesel settle in a jerry, and when you pour from a jerry, the fuel is coming off the top, and the water or crud stays on the bottom. If you pour into a funnel that has a gauze filter, you'll see the water, should it appear.

Main reason that I'd be paranoid about the 120series Prado is that it has two tanks that you cannot isolate. So if you get a dirty fuel problem, you cannot switch to the other tank (it has an automatic changeover).
AnswerID: 352121

Follow Up By: Member - Fred B (NT) - Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 09:35

Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 09:35
Being the owner of one of those Prado's, I have the same concern, especially since the media has pointed out a recent spate of complaints to consumer affairs about water in fuel and the costs to repair those vehicles.

It recently cost us $3000 (fortunately the insurance paid most) to have the SWMBO's Holden Ute repaired after having water in the fuel. It's not a lot of fun I can tell you.

I recently purchased a Tanami pump, I wonder if putting an in-line fuel filter (unleaded) in the hose would prevent water going into the fuel tank? Any comments?
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 20:25

Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 20:25
Fred,
If using a Tanami pump, I'd make sure the fuel was settled and I wouldn't have the hose down to the bottom where water will settle. A petrol fuel filter won't stop water - its too small and it will still pump through.

The older LandCruiser diesels had a separate water separator - my 60series had it mounted on the inside of the RHS chassis rail - simply a metal chamber with a small drain plug on the bottom. When checking for water, you unscrew the plug and see what comes out into a glass jar. If its normal diesel, you're fine. If its water, just keep draining.

Your Prado has a similar drain plug at the bottom of the fuel filter - same deal, just drain a small amount into a glass jar and check for globules of water. Do this as often as you like. The 90series diesels had a nice hose attached that made this an easy check to do.
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Reply By: curious - Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 12:46

Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 12:46
Besides the good advice posted here about filtering diesel fuel from drums, I'm interested in people's views and experience in fitting additional fuel filters on their vehicles e.g. CAV water & fuel filters. I used to run truck fleets quite awhile ago and it was very common to fit water traps and additional fuel filters. However things have changed since those ancient days when diesel engines were not as sophisticated as they are now. I once replaced a blocked fuel filter on an MAN Diesel with nylon stockings to filter the fuel and get mobile again. God knows what the shop assistant thought of a dirty truckie buying stockings...lol... no cross dressing here tho.

Peter
AnswerID: 352143

Follow Up By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 16:40

Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 16:40
No, I don't have common rail, but have suffered due to fuel with particle contamination.
On a few trips I have picked up bad fuel. Usually at a pub out west with fuel in overhead tanks.

I have installed another filter (first filter off a 75 series toyota that is 13 micron from memory), and a lift pump. Placed up on the chassis under the back seat for easy access. Cheap to buy replacements at $9.00 each and easy to get any where.

My research on filters suggests that all filters only stop 90 to 95% of dirt to the nominated size, and once clogged passes even more. So on a trip I do the extra fuel filter every time I do an oil change every 5000k. That way the original Mitsubishi filter is a reserve filter and has a chance to do it's job when I get a load of dirty fuel.

Checked with a couple of people about the lift pump, and the concensus seems to be that the lift pump will just circulate the diesel around through the filters and back through the return line thus filtering the fuel as we drive. It will minimise any pressure drop due to the extra filter. I have tried it and the engine still runs fine if the lift pump cuts out.
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FollowupID: 620382

Follow Up By: curious - Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 20:35

Wednesday, Mar 04, 2009 at 20:35
John, thanks for the feedback. It seems good and cheap insurance to install a secondary filter especially one with finer filtration. Was the bad fuel contaminated with particles or water?

Re the lift pump, was there significant pressure drop with the additional filter to warrant the pump or was your main objective to provide additional filtration via the by-pass and return line.

- Peter
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FollowupID: 620424

Follow Up By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Thursday, Mar 05, 2009 at 08:50

Thursday, Mar 05, 2009 at 08:50
Main problem has been foreign particles.
First time it was red dust and sand.
2nd time it was sand and horse hair.
3rd time it was fine grey clay.

I had to get the injection pump overhauled at 200,000k and speaking to the fitter, dirty fuel, or only partially filtered fuel creates more wear on the seals. Rest of pump was OK.

The toyota filter is 13 micron, the pajero filter is 10 micron, so the first filter catches the worst of it and gives the pajero filter a chance to cope with a bad load of fuel.

If the extra pump is not working, there is a slight pressure drop. Not as bad as a very dirty filter :o). Maybe loose 10% power at full throttle, just like backing off a fraction at full throttle, so the car is certainly still driveable. But the pajero needs all the power it can get, and I didn't want to put too much load on the injection pump.

I have set up the toyota filter and pump under the car so I can disconnect a couple of bits of fuel line and bypass them if I need to.

I did think of getting a filtering sock for the fuel filler on the car and filter fuel as it was put into the tank, but using it every time on a fill up lengthened the fill time, plus the hassle of using and storing it.
If filling from jerries I use a funnel with a fine mesh filter in it.
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FollowupID: 620495

Follow Up By: curious - Friday, Mar 06, 2009 at 08:46

Friday, Mar 06, 2009 at 08:46
John, thanks for your detailed reponse. I was surprised at the variety of particle contamination but it makes sense when you consider the environment around the fuel storage. Years ago, I used to drive fuel tankers and when it was raining, the recessed pipe connection for underground tank was frequently waterlogged when we were trying to connect our hoses. Vigilant service station operators would have their underground tanks decontaminated regularly (hand pump the sludge from the bottom of the tank using a long suction line) but not everyone does that.

I hadn’t considered the pressure drop with an additional fuel filter and your solution of an extra pump is a good one. Thanks again for sharing your experience and tips.

Peter
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FollowupID: 620669

Follow Up By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Friday, Mar 06, 2009 at 13:09

Friday, Mar 06, 2009 at 13:09
I use a 'facet' make of pump.
Generic after market fuel pump, and easy to get a replacement anywhere if it breaks down.
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FollowupID: 620738

Follow Up By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Friday, Mar 06, 2009 at 13:12

Friday, Mar 06, 2009 at 13:12
Forgot to add.
One advantage of the 2nd fuel pump wired up to the ignition, when I have to prime the system after a filter change just turn on the ignition for a couple of minutes to pump the fuel around the system and it is primed. No hand pumping the primer. :o)
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FollowupID: 620739

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Friday, Mar 06, 2009 at 16:58

Friday, Mar 06, 2009 at 16:58
I'm an oldplodder too..... and I've done a similar mod to the 6.5 V8 Chev.

It already had a mechanical lift pump and an electric lift pump under the bonnet and 2 separate CAV filters.

I've recently removed the mechanical lift pump (it was leaking). I've moved one of the CAV filters to the rear of the rig and added my Morison Debug unit ( see debug fuel gizmo ) plus a Facet pump. So, from the tank, I have the Facet pump (which has it's own little in-line filter), then the Morison Debug, then the first CAV unit, then the fuel goes up to the engine bay to the other electric lift pump, then to the 2nd CAV unit, before finally getting to the injector pump.

Hopefully, my fuel is cleaner than when it left the refinery!!! hahaha
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Friday, Mar 06, 2009 at 17:02

Friday, Mar 06, 2009 at 17:02
By the way; I forgot to add that the CAV units both have glass bowls underneath, so I can check for water and/or other muck at any time. Having the one at the back sitting prone to stone damage on the chassis rail was a concern, but I used a short length of 100mm poly water pipe, with a cap over one end. This is held in place to protect the whole thing, using a length of shock cord.

The reason I moved it from under the bonnet was that there were fuel hoses going from one side of the engine bay to the other and the bay is cluttered enough already, so moving it just tidied things up a bit.
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Friday, Mar 06, 2009 at 17:58

Friday, Mar 06, 2009 at 17:58
Thanks for the comment Roachie.

I was going to install the CAV, but was worried about the glass bowl and stones. Good solution you have.
Other thing I was given the toyota filter at a good price, nix :o)

I didn't fit the 20 micron pre filter supplied with the pump. Was worried it would block quickly with a bad load of fuel.
My facet is before the first filter.
I just replaced my original facet after 15 years, and it didn't have the prefilter either, and had handled some pretty bad fuel (and sand) by the look of the filters, so am not too worried.
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