Filling gas bottle from home supply

Submitted: Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 22:41
ThreadID: 66780 Views:13004 Replies:14 FollowUps:12
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Hello everyone, l have a friend who says that it is possible to fill a gas bottle from the supply to your house, does anyone know if this is true?

Thanks
Cisco
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Reply By: Willem - Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 22:48

Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 22:48
Yes it is possible but highly illegal and possibly quite dangerous
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Reply By: Ianw - Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 22:49

Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 22:49
LPG yes Town supply gas No

Ian
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Follow Up By: Ianw - Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 22:56

Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 22:56
Refer thread 62406

Ian
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Reply By: Notso - Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 22:52

Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 22:52
The household supply is natural gas, if you are connected. This requires high compression pressure to liquify it. The LP Gas tanks are not designed for this pressure.

If the house is on Bottled gas I have heard of people doing it but it wouldn't be worth the possible risks involved.
AnswerID: 353708

Follow Up By: Ciscocat - Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 23:28

Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 23:28
Sorry people i should have said that the supply is Natural household gas, supplied via pipeline

Cisco
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 23:42

Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 23:42
Natural gas or SafGas as it is referred to in bottled form, requires a compressor to fill aqualung style bottles as it only liquifies at very high pressure.
It is quite common in boats in New Zealand, a few boats here tried it in the early 90s but refill stations were few & far between.
We had a bottle filled & when we asked how much, were told that it wsn't worth raising an invoice for .37 cents worth of gas!
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Reply By: Shaker - Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 23:23

Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 23:23
You would need the decanting cylinder to have the pickup close to the bottom, so as to dispense liquid.
AnswerID: 353715

Follow Up By: Ianw - Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 23:28

Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 at 23:28
Just turn it upside down

Ian
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Reply By: Tim - Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 00:20

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 00:20
Very simple, obviously there are some risks with gas so maybe do it in a breezy area.
Get a hose made up so you can connect the two bottles. Turn the feeder bottle upside down, open up the valves and crack the flat blade screw on the empty bottle to allow air out as liquid goes in. As it fills you can feel the previously empty bottle fill up (weight) and when its full the liquid will shoot out the screw so be ready to do it up.
Also the gas is extremely cold so gloves are required.
AnswerID: 353720

Follow Up By: V8 Troopie - Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 00:25

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 00:25
Tim, you should re read the original message, different gas question.
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Reply By: Member - Kevin J (Sunshine Coa - Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 09:50

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 09:50
It seems a pity that you would consider your live to be worth so little as to want to save a dollar by messing around with a products which can be very dangerous.

Take your bottle to a refilling station or go to a Swap n Go.

Think of the people who have to pick up the pieces.

Kevin J
AnswerID: 353753

Follow Up By: Ciscocat - Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:44

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:44
Show me where in my question i suggested that "I" was going to do what you say! Why not just stick to the question that was asked and leave it at that! I merely stated that a friend said it was possible and thought that i would post the question on here but as always someone has to chip in with the typical answer like yours.
Like i have said before, i still see no reason as to why i should become a member on this site.

Cisco
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 11:19

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 11:19
G'day Cisco, I'm not quite sure where you are coming from with
the "member" thing. Are you saying that you wont be a member because not all answers to your posts make you happy ?. Anyone
is free to ask or respond to posts. Some of us see value in being
members, others dont. I havent detected any better responses
from members as opposed to nonmembers, perhaps you have.
People are free to reply to your questions in any manner they like, as long as they do not breech the rules , to relate such answers
to membership seems to draw a long bow...cheers...oldbaz.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kevin J (Sunshine Coa - Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:40

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:40
Cisco,

Whether the refilling of the bottle is possible or not and whether it was you or your friend who was considering this activity is immaterial. The practice of refilling gas bottles is covered by a range of legislation and is legal only when undertaken by a 'licensed' refiller location.

There is also the consideration of the type of gas in the household supply and whether it is suitable for use in the item you intend to use it on.

Now I am aware that there are certain methods promoted for refilling small bottles such as inverting the cylinder etc but my question/statement remains Why would you bother? The practice is illegal and dangerous and as my dead friend would say if he was around - 'It wasn't worth the saving!'

While most things are possible with a level of endeavour my short answer to your original posting is ' Not if you are looking for a long lifespan.

I am sorry if my answer would preclude you from participating in this or any other forum. I would be very happy if it just saved a life.

Kevin J


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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 13:08

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 13:08
Weird - every day people fill their cars with an explosive liquid that gives off fumes so dangerous that it's illegal to smoke or use a mobile phone at a filling station - yet no-one gives dire warnings about the dangers of filling your generator tank with it from a portable tank.
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Reply By: Ciscocat - Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:47

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:47
To all the people who answered my question above without the usual lectures, i say thank you.

Thanks
Cisco
AnswerID: 353767

Follow Up By: takenbyaliens (QLD member) - Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 11:50

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 11:50
Wow you are sensitive!! Reading through what people have said indicates to me that they are prepared to offer advice. Safety is an issue and most people would consider any advice re this as useful. As to the mebership issue I agree with Oldbaz...I cannot see what that has to do with the responses you have received.
According to modern astronomers, space is finite..a very comforting thought particularly for people who can never remember where they left things

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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:29

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:29
The short answer is NO!!! Dont even try it.. LPG is used in bottles and what you get from your home supply is natural gas.. Natural gas does not liquify easily and you wont get any volume in the bottle, it will be vapour and not liquid and also , things that are designed to run on LPG have different size jets to natural Gas appliances.. There is no point to try what you are talking about... Michael
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:30

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:30
Also, forgot to mention, Your friend is an idiot, dont listen to him,, His advice may kill you one day... Michael
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Reply By: Member - DOZER- Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:32

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:32
Cisco, is he still your friend?? Technically he is right, you can fill your lpg bottle with natural gas from the house...but it wont be anything more than a bomb. Have a go at this...open the valve and light it....at first it will flame, then it will gulp, and when the mix of gas and air becomes acceptable, it will rock your suburb.
Lighten up, you should be happy im telling you how dangerous it is without judging you....
Andrew
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 13:16

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 13:16
Bottling CNG is well understood technology - many NSW Govt buses run on CNG - compressed natural gas.

When they let a recent contract for more buses, they bought Diesel buses - even though they are worse polluters than CNG (do as I say, not as I do).

They chose diesel because the CNG compressors at the Bus Depots are very expensive to install and maintain and the gas mains would have to updated to supply sufficient gas flow.
AnswerID: 353789

Reply By: GerryP - Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 20:31

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 20:31
Hi Cisco,

Without getting into any emotional discussion, here are the facts:

The gases are very different. Natural gas is around 90% methane, 6% ethane, with traces of around 1% of butane and even less propane.

LPG as used in cars and bbq's consists of basically all butane and/or propane, the mixture depending on usage and/or climatic conditions where it is to be used.

To convert an appliance to operate from one gas to the other is usually quite simple, but would require re-jetting and setting correct delivery gas pressure at the very least.

The biggest problem in filling bottles from a home supply is that you need enormous (compared to LPG) pressures to liquefy and also need much more substantial cylinder construction.

There are such things as natural gas filling stations which use a high compression type compressor and is used to fill vehicle tanks. Many buses run on LNG (liquified natural gas).

To summarise though. Your ordinary LPG gas cylinder can not be filled from a natural gas supply.

Cheers
Gerry
AnswerID: 353872

Follow Up By: GerryP - Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 21:47

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 21:47
Actually, I think that should be CNG as in compressed natural gas and not LNG (liquefied natural gas).

I would need to check on the actual liquefying pressure, but I have a feeling that vehicle tanks are only compressed and not liquefied natural gas.

Maybe someone else here can clarify that?

Cheers
Gerry
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Reply By: Lenticular - Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 22:30

Friday, Mar 13, 2009 at 22:30
Gerry, The buses use CNG (high pressure gas). LNG (liquid) is really only seen in those big tankers with the three spheres in/on their hulls. The enormous refrigeration plants on the North West Shelf cool the NG enough to liquify it to send to Japan for power generation. By the way, those spheres have 12" thick aluminium walls.
No one domestically uses LNG.
AnswerID: 353894

Reply By: paulnsw - Saturday, Mar 14, 2009 at 12:28

Saturday, Mar 14, 2009 at 12:28
filling your own LPG bottles works out about $12 for 9kg. We order a liquid fill bottle for work and have hose.
AnswerID: 353950

Reply By: offroad Bob - Sunday, Mar 15, 2009 at 18:37

Sunday, Mar 15, 2009 at 18:37
Hi Ciscocat

Not sure whether you have your answer yet. From my bit - the main issue with filling up a portable gas bottle from your household outlet that comes from the street is the household outlet runs at only 4psi - low pressure gas. Thus all appliances on this have large jets to allow sufficient gas through. There has been discussions on auto web sites about installing gas compressors in home garages to fill your car gas tank. It is possible and I have read a forum where someone was doing it but like others say, very dangerous. Similar rules are in place for petrol whereby you are not allowed to fill a container with more than 200litres or store more than 200 litres at home. People do all the time but it is against the law.

Portable gas bottles have liquid gas in them stored at high pressure and then regulated out with very fine jets. The gas you use in cars is the same stuff as you will notice at service stations that top up gas bottles will sometimes just have a line running from their big above ground tank.

If you live where there was no street gas and have large gas bottles outside that provide gas to cooker or hotwater system then that could be different. I have not tried that one but have heard of people decanting to portable camping bottles. The problem is decanting the liquid not the gas. This would entail turning a big grey home tank upside down while it is full - just a dumb and dangerous thing to do.

For the few dollars you might save compare it to the rest of your life not being there. Just do like the rest of us and get shafted for a tiny gas bottle at the local swop and go.

Bob.

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