Fraser Island Speed Limit

"The speed limit on Fraser Island will be lowered immediately from 100 kph to 80 kph.
State Transport Minister Rachel Nolan says a meeting in Maryborough on Tuesday will endorse the new limit and discuss plans for its enforcement."

The above is a direct cut-and-paste from "news.ninemsn.com.au" this morning.

I have always understood that the speed limit on Fraser Island beach was 80kph. Every Fraser map I have says so.

So getting onto the Queensland Gov. site "epa.qld.gov.au/parks" etc gives me the following Fraser Island speed limits:
80kph Eastern Beach
40kph Shared Zones
50kph Hook Pt Inland Road
35kph All other inland roads


I hope it was nine.msn that has it wrong and not Anna's crew as, after all, they are supposed to be steering HMAS Queensland!

Cheers
Allan






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Allan

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Reply By: Member - Porl - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 13:09

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 13:09
well 80 suits my non-turbo diesel just fine ...
AnswerID: 362033

Follow Up By: Member - Jack - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 20:01

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 20:01
: )
Mine too, if I can get a tail wind.

Jack
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Reply By: Ozhumvee - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 13:17

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 13:17
80 kph is probably still too fast for the majority anyway, given that it is a beach which has a surface that changes constantly with tide and sea conditions, not an expressway that usually has a pretty stabel surface. Add in the long stretches with a couple of mm's of flowing surface water down around low tide mark from natural springs and seeps that are just ripe to aquaplane on at far lesser speeds than 80kph.
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Reply By: pprass - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 13:18

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 13:18
Which then begs the question - if it already is 80kph then what will it be reduced to? 60kph?
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Reply By: chisel - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 13:18

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 13:18
I've seen 100kph reported incorrectly so many times now I'm wondering if it really is 100kph. Someone on ausfish asked one of the journalists why she said 100 and was told it was the constable dealing with the accident who said it was 100!!

I sincerely hope it isn't being reduced from 80 to 60 as that would make it a very long and tedious trip up the eastern beach.
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Follow Up By: pprass - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 13:45

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 13:45
Exactly! A trip to Sandy Point from say Cathedral would be a huge expedition.
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Follow Up By: Member - Allan B (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 13:49

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 13:49
I know that the Fraser Beach is actually gazetted as a Public Road so maybe that results in a 100kph legal speed limit and it is Qld Parks & Forests who are "recommending" 80kph and this has become the de-facto speed limit and is then used by mapmakers etc.

I find 80 to be a satisfactory limit and certainly drop below this as appropriate such as softer sand ridges across the beach.
Nevertheless, at 80 I often get passed by vehicles seemingly doing 100 or more.

Yes, 60kph would make it a tedious trip up the beach. But I'm afraid that we are all suppressed in our behavior down to the least-common-denominator as a result of those who fail to consider others or use common-sense.

Incidentally, I have seen radar speed guns in use on Fraser Beach and will probably be more so for a while following all this recent event and publicity.

Allan
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Reply By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 15:10

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 15:10
G'dayAllan,

Not sure that this or the other proposed measures such as licencing etc will have any effect on reducing the potential accidents by troopies loaded with back packers!

I have always thought the speed limit to be 8o as well with 40 on the inland tracks. Some days it can be a race track but other days and high tides can be a real slog. And it is really a common sense choice dictated by the conditions. No amount of speed limit fiddling will prevent the next crash unfortunately.

Judging by the press it would seem that the Govt has responded to the media outcry and the greens with proposed licencing requiring training on preserving the environment as well. Some sensible solutions aimed at the hiring companies seemed to have been mostly ignored.

Kind regards
AnswerID: 362052

Follow Up By: Axel [ the real one ] - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 15:40

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 15:40
Perhaps its time to change the vehicle licencing system ,,,, the normal car / 4x4 licence was designed when cars /4x4 carried 6 people max , now 8/9 and a troopy 11 people = almost a bus ,, also a fair few of our tourists have never actually driven a manual vehicle aka a troopy yet due to the international permit putting no distinction on same any o/seas tourist can hire a manual vehicle ,,
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Reply By: rumpig - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 15:30

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 15:30
the speed limit on Fraser was 100 klm /hr only it was recommended that you only do a max. of 80 kph. Dave from P7 offroad (AKA - Chopper) had a meeting with the Hervey Bay Mayor last week and this was one topic discussed between them. below is a copy from the thread he posted on another forum.




Firstly, I'll declare my obvious conflict of interests...


Now, I met with the Mayor of Hervey Bay the other day, who, the night before had recieved a call from the BBC and was interviewed, live, and without warning, and broadcast in the town where the male fatality came from... now that is just awful!


The speed limit (and this comes directly from the Mayor) has never been enforceable on Fraser... there was a bylaw in draft (he showed it to me) that was to go before the next council meeting, to formalise the speed limits as 80 on the beach, 35 inland and 20 in the townships.

As it currently stands, except for where there are signs, like around the Maheno, the speed limit is 100, everywhere... (however you can still get booked for dangerous driving regardless of what speed you are doing).

There have been 21 accidents - reported to the police - not just rollovers, but total number of MVA since 2005, with upwards of 220 000 people visiting the island. This is a better ratio than some stretches of highway, or some shopping centre carparks.

Now, EVERY hire car acident would be reported to the police, but quite possible that some private ones would not be.

"{backpackers}" represented 19 of those 21 accidents.


(of course, how does one define a backpacker), I am hiring three landcruisers next week for a field study trip to Fraser, does that make me a backpacker... yet because we are hiring from a traditional "backpacker" hire company, if we had an incident we would be included in that stat.


I have been to Fraser, lots! really, lots and lots. and in my time I have seen just as many foolish behaviours from non-backpackers as from backpackers, and i am certain that i have helped to recover more 'aussies' than "Svens" (or "Ingas")


There are a couple of causal factors, and this comes from the preliminary police report, which I saw with my own eyes.

1. The estimated speed was between 110 and 120 km/hr.
2. Most occupants were not wearing seatbelts, including the two who were thrown from the vehicle, who died.
3. The vehicle rolled (and flipped) 8 (that's eight) times.


Those three conditions, on the highway, in the desert, in a shopping centre carpark, would have had the same result...




Now as to having 'guided' tours. The current model being suiggested is that groups of 5 cars (that's 50 people remember) will have a 'guide' sit in the passenger seat of teh lead car, and 'look in the mirror' - quote from the paper, to guide the group around the island...

This will not be a guided tour, this will not be a better option, this will just be some young, or old bloke, who thinks that the idea of hanging out with backpackers in bikinis (or less) is a good way to earn a crust.... The pay rate for this will be very ordinary, and will attract the lowest common denominator.

I have suggested that people should have options... at this time, nobody, even people qualified and insured like myself, or any of the other, reputable 4wd tour companies (and by this i do not mean ones - with a couple of exceptions - based on Fraser or at Noosa) are not allowed to operate tag along tours, we have tried, but EPA (now DERM) will not issue a Commercial Tour Operator's Permit (CTO) to a tag along business - and lets not even start about offering training on 'public land'.

There is a market, even amongst our overseas visitors, for professionaly guided tag alongs on Fraser, many visitors do want to learn and experience the island, not just drink and sunbathe, and for many, unless they are very lucky in who they end up sharing a car with, their Fraser experience is less than they had hoped it would be.



phew, that was a lot...




(oh and the Jimny quote above... one of the hire companies has a suzuki sierrra in it's compound this week that has been rolled over on the Island)
__________________

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AnswerID: 362055

Follow Up By: Member - Allan B (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:10

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:10
Ahhh, Thanks Rumpig, and Chopper, so it is as I guessed ..... legal speed limit of 100kph but 80kph encouraged by EPA and others.

So OK, I'm happy with enforcing 80kph, its what I did anyway.
It won't eliminate all accidents, maybe some, and maybe reduce the severity of some. Hopefully it may take out some "Whoopee" behavior.

And we will still be able to do Hook Point to Orchid Beach in a couple of hours.

From reports of the beach condition I don't think I will bother going there again for some time anyway. Pity because it's on my doorstep and just great.

Allan
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Reply By: Mr Pointyhead - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:13

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:13
Why not just make it mandatory to have completed an nationally accredited 4wd driver training course as a condition of driving a vehicle on Fraser (And Moreton, Bribie etc) ?



AnswerID: 362058

Follow Up By: kevanancy - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:29

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:29
I am 38yo and have been driving 4wd all my life as well as motorcycles . The idea of having to complete a training course to drive on a gazzetted rd is to me ridiculous . Have been to Fraser many , many times and never had any trouble , not even bogged .
The problem is with inexperienced backpackers and a few home grown idiots . I am sure most sensible people who visit there for the first time have no trouble at all .
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Follow Up By: Rod, Sydney - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:46

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:46
We have a problem getting nationally accredited 4WD training recognised - I have accredited training and it is not even recognised by some 4WD clubs. Our whole industry needs a lot more maturity before these issues will be resolved.
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Follow Up By: kevanancy - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:49

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:49
Woul make more sense to have all hire vehicles on Fraser speed limited to 60km/hr , trucks are speed limited these days on the highways why not the troopies an such on the island ?
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Follow Up By: Member - Tony & Julie (Malanda - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 17:42

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 17:42
Pointyhead. I wish that everyone who says you need 4x4 training to drive on a beach would Give us a break (I am not saying that training is not good). Mates and I have done it for years with no training and no accidents. I saw a American Tourist in a rented Jeep Cherokee driving like a madman write off that car on his first day.

You can not teach idiots and we have more and more rules and restrictions because of a few idiots.

Obviously reckless driving on Frazer Island needs to be policed to catch the idiots so the sane can drive without further restrictions. I would say that 100k on a beach is bordering on reckless anyway. I say this as you have no idea of the consistency of the surface conditions and thus to drive to that condition a slower speed would be required.

Cheers Tony
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 19:14

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 19:14
You are dead right Tony you cant legislate for idiots.

Never mind Fraser what about the ones that wrap themselves around a tree so bad the car is split in half.

So much for speed limits.

No matter what speed limit is set there will always be the bleep s that "know" they can drive better and faster than that.
Sadly they often find out to late they cant and die in the process.











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Follow Up By: Mr Pointyhead - Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 at 07:46

Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 at 07:46
Do you assume that Driving a 4x4 on Fraser is the same as driving a 2wd passenger car in the Suburbs ?

The idea of accredited training is to ensure that all people undertaking the training have the same basic set of skills to ensure safe operation of whatever they are being trained in.

How else would you suggest we ensure that people who drive a 4x4 on places like Fraser have the correct basic 4x4 operator skills to be able to travel in safety ?

Or would you prefer that governments overreacted and placed a silly speed limit on the beach like 40 KmHr to make it idiot proof at the expense of the the majority of people who do the right thing, or worse use it as another excuse to ban 4x4's or at least hire 4x4s ?

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Reply By: Sea-Dog - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:21

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:21
I would put money on it that even if the speed limit was 60kph the speed would still have been between 110 - 120 and they would have still rolled over EIGHT times...

80 is reasonable though... we all have to remember that this is the MAXIMUM speed and not the speed you have to travel at.
AnswerID: 362061

Reply By: troopyman - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:39

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:39
35klms/hr on inland tracks is 70klms/hr headon speed . Try max of 20kls/hr . 70klms/hr would be better on the beach . I swear buses do closer to 80klms/hr on the inland track .
AnswerID: 362065

Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:43

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 16:43
Hmmm, does that apply to aircraft :-))
AnswerID: 362068

Reply By: Dremus - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 17:26

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 17:26
At 80 kms an hour an overloaded troopy with 11 people and all of their luggage and an inexperience driver, will still end in a similar result. Troopies are top heavy at the best of times let alone overloaded.
AnswerID: 362073

Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 22:39

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 22:39
Thanks Dremus,
Spoken like a true non Troopy owner.

You do realise Troopy's are actually lighter than their equivalent year of production wagons?

The bulk of the weight of a Landcruiser is in the engine, drive train and chassis.

That would mean the bulk of the mass of a Troopy is below your bum.

Based on those facts, the C of G of a Troopy is lower than the C of G of a Landcruiser wagon.

Geoff
Geoff,
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Reply By: DIO - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 18:14

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 18:14
Max 40kmk/ph general with reduced speeds in populated/designated areas down to 15-20 km/ph
AnswerID: 362081

Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 19:06

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 19:06
I'm yet to see where a law has stopped idiots being idiots?
Another waste of tax payers money and an inconvenience to the average person!

Cheers
AnswerID: 362092

Reply By: Member - Allan B (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 19:48

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 19:48
OK. I have just watched a Police Officer on Sunshine Coast TV news say that the speed limit IS 100kph but they "have been enforcing 80kph for years".

Now that is fine and dandy but how are they able to "ENFORCE" something that does not exist in legislation? That is plain illegal.

If the authorities were convinced that 80kph was the safest maximum speed then why did they not legislate to that? If they had done so maybe some people would not have been killed or injured.

Allan
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Allan

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