Hilux vs Navara

Submitted: Sunday, May 10, 2009 at 21:19
ThreadID: 68708 Views:11119 Replies:11 FollowUps:12
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Hi all again,
I recently asked about Prado vs Patrol and got some great responses. Alas, both are out of budget and not quite going to suit what we had in mind. So we changed it!

I'm now looking at a ST-X Navara or a SR5 hilux. Both Diesel, both dual cab.

What are the thoughts on these two? Nav has a 2.5lt vs a 3.0lt, but Nav also has 3000kg towing quote as opposed to 2250kg in the lux.

Usage would be as a 'business' car (love this 30% investment allowance), but long term plans is soft-road and later (after experience and training!) off-road. Towing is important, but probably at the hi-lux limit (inc passengers and load).

All thoughts greatly appreciated again.
Cheers
Andrew
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Reply By: BuggerBoggedAgain - Sunday, May 10, 2009 at 22:17

Sunday, May 10, 2009 at 22:17
In todays sunday telegraph there was an article on test crashes, the lux is the safest 4wd with 4 stars followed by triton 4 stars

navara 3 stars, ford ranger/bt50 3 stars, colorado 3 stars, mahindra 2 stars
AnswerID: 364225

Reply By: Crackles - Sunday, May 10, 2009 at 22:44

Sunday, May 10, 2009 at 22:44
We currently have almost the full range of light utes at work making for an interesting comparison. Overall taking load carrying, towing, handling, econemy & comfort into account the Hilux would come in 2nd & the Navara 3rd but really they are all very close these days.
Cheers Craig..................
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Follow Up By: GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 15:40

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 15:40
So that begs the obvious question whats 1st
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 17:48

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 17:48
Triton. Best tow vehicle, good leg room, a sturdy chassis that goes right to the front of the car for mounting winches & bars & has a locker as an option from the factory. Our company has bought over fourty of the current model in the past couple of years & are standing up very well with few issues to note. Ironically it's the "unbreakable" Hilux that are having problems at low KMs including rear diff bearing failures.
Certainly finding all brands have improved their quality in some regaurd to the point I no longer think Toyota have the edge any more.
Cheers Craig................
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Reply By: Patrol22 - Sunday, May 10, 2009 at 23:01

Sunday, May 10, 2009 at 23:01
Straydingo

There is a good discussion going on over at the 4WD Action forum but like others have said there is not much between the lot.
AnswerID: 364232

Reply By: Doddgey - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 10:06

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 10:06
Straydingo,
We bought 2 petrol Navara's in late 2007 (after always owning Hilux's) on the back of price, reviews including a 4WD of the year award and the way they performed on a test drive.
Awesome power, very nice to drive, very roomy and comfortable and a clever internal layout.
However, we were very dissapointed with the build quality and the fuel economy. In the end we went back to Toyota's late last year and are once again very happy.
Yes you pay more up front, but I think we will get it back in spades on reliability and resale.
Just my opinion.
Cheers

Doddgey
AnswerID: 364258

Reply By: Gronk - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 10:30

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 10:30
If I was looking at utes ( I stress ME ) then the DMax and the Mazda BT50 would be the 1st 2 I would look at..I know , not really answering the question !!
AnswerID: 364260

Follow Up By: Straydingo - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 15:58

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 15:58
No, not answering the question, but it makes me think.... I hadn't even considered a DMax. Specs look good on paper. I'll have to find a dealer and take a look, but I'd probably be hesitant just as its a bit of an unknown for me - low marketing profile
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Follow Up By: tim_c - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 17:06

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 17:06
The DMax is not an unknown, it's an Isuzu - Holden have been selling Isuzu utes with "Rodeo" badges for years. If they build them as good as the Jackaroos, it would be worth at least having a look
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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 17:07

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 17:07
Isuzu build the Rodeo/Colorado and have built all of Holdens 4WDs...Jackaroo etc and are the biggest builder of diesel motors in the world.....Also the D-Max was the first diesel ute in the 2009 Dakar.....www.isuzuute.com.au
Cheers Bruce
D.Max and Jayco Outback

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Follow Up By: Straydingo - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 17:11

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 17:11
Sorry, I meant an unknown to me. I don't really know anything about them, but reading up in the forums now (instead of working)
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Follow Up By: Wherehegon - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 22:38

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 22:38
If you believe the 4wd tests they do in the 4wd monthly/Action magazine, (get the latest if you want a read) the dmax won it.. I priced one new top of the range ex demo in auto with bullbar, hardtop cover and a few other bits and pieces and was $47. Wouldnt have a clue if this was good or bad but was just tyre kicking one day a few weeks back. But bloody great looking vehicle....... WHG
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Reply By: Member - Broe (WA) - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 10:55

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 10:55
I was open and minded and looked at all three.

Also spoke to a few hire companies with their costs.

Basically this is what I ended up with;

Reliability, Hilux, if you are going to own the truck for a while, you will spend less on maintenance

Towing, Equal, the Triton, and Navara though rated more, you would not put more than 2 tonne on these vehicles for offroad or 2 1/2 for on road. Numerous cases of structual damage to all vehicles towing more than 2 1/2 tonne. Probably would be good for 3 tonne in a straight line. If you want to tow, get a Land Rover / Cruiser etc

Initial Cost, we all know this one

Resale, by far the Hilux

Adaptability, Hilux. I was very disappointed with the interior of the Navara. Triton was ok but not built to last. under bonnet space also in the Navara is shocking and if you speak to any service guy, they all hate working on them. Triton not too bad and easy to work on but problems creep in after about 50,000km (this is hire vehicle stats so prob longer for a private owner as they look after their vehicles better) as opposed to about 110,000 for a Hilux. Look at whether or not you need a 2nd battery, water heater (underbonnet) or anything else including your hands if you do need to do anything.


Hence I ended up getting a hilux.
AnswerID: 364264

Reply By: tim_c - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 12:01

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 12:01
Hi,

I've been thinking over the same vehicles for a while. I would have bought the previous model HiLux but can't quite get past the looks of the current model. I looked at the BT50 but my impression was it was a bit light-duty for the outback touring I had in mind. I was also looking at the D40 Navara but have heard of lots of problems with these - particularly the clutch (look elsewhere on this site and/or go to http://motorsm.com/complaints/latest.asp for some info) - this will be particularly important as you've mentioned you want to use it for towing. The autos can give problems too with a particulate emissions sensor which quickly fouls up and results in poor fuel economy. These sensors are rumoured to be around $4-5k to replace.

Personally, I think the Triton is for people who don't think the current HiLux is ugly enough, and I wouldn't touch a Mitsubishi due to their reputation with transmissions. Although they argue they have fixed those problems, the reputation still seems to affect resale value on current models. Add to that: the parts counter at my local Holden/Mitsubishi dealer is covered in adverts for genuine Mitsubishi reconditioned transmissions. Most dealers' parts counters have posters telling you to use only genuine consumables (oils, filters, belts, etc.) but Mitsubishi has posters telling you of the advantages of replacing your transmission with a genuine reconditioned one...
AnswerID: 364273

Follow Up By: Straydingo - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 15:47

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 15:47
yeah I looked at the BT50/Ranger but wasn't convinced. Likewise the Colarado just seemed cheap in build and quality (let alone just simply uncomfortable to sit in at the dealer's)

Mits is simply out of the question, after already having 4 mits cars, all with problems that the mechanics have said "Wow, never seen THAT before. That shouldn't happen......"

Personally, I think the Hiluxs look pretty good tho, especially with a full kit installed -steel bar, lift kit, ATs, etc etc. But yes, you've got to wonder what happen to the Triton design team :-)
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 15:35

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 15:35
I have 2 friends with Navaras and they both love the Hilux when they drive mine however they couldn't justify the price difference for work vehicles. I reckon both vehicles are great products however you cannot deny the differences. Your choice will depend on your budget, I wouldn't want to be towing 3000KG with a Navara too often.

The Hilux is perhaps an expensive product yet it keeps breaking sales records, hec the 2nd top selling vehicle behind the Commodore.! Thats gotta say something.

Value for money the Navara is a great choice.

AnswerID: 364315

Reply By: Straydingo - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 16:02

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 16:02
Just out of curiosity, was the Nav based on the Pathfinder, or the Pathfinder based on the Nav?
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Follow Up By: tim_c - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 16:55

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 16:55
I don't know - the dealer told me they were the same car with a different body on top. I went home and looked over the brochures and the Nav has solid rear axle while the Pathy has indep. rear susp. - fairly substantial difference in off-road ability I'd expect.
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Reply By: rocco2010 - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 16:38

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 16:38
Giddat

No doubt the Hilux is a good thing but is it worth the extra. Sure it sells a lot but how many are bought by "real people" who have to pay full whack, not companies for fleets etc.

I have a Ford Ranger and am very happy with it. It isn't the best looking thing either but is does the job at a substantial discount to the Toyota.

The best selling motorcycle in Australia is that little Honda that Australia Post uses. I doubt if they would sell many to anybody else.

Cheers Rocco
AnswerID: 364323

Follow Up By: Straydingo - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 16:52

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 16:52
True, but then we would also need to consider why are they purchased heavily as fleet vehicles.

Wouldn't that also be an indication of long term reliability, resale etc, if businesses are willing to pay that higher price, as opposed to a lower budget postie scooter?

I'm buying it under my business, and I can get the same sort of discount on a Hilux as a Nav as an ABN holder. In fact its considerably less than if I wanted a 'less popular' model of car (as the dealer said today)...say a Camry

(thinking aloud, not trying to be argumentative)
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Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 17:04

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 17:04
Not really - Defence buys them at about 1/10th the price of what Joe Public can get them. The main problem I have with the Hilux (it came in second behind the D40 Navara when I did the evaluation to buy a dual cab just before Christmas 2008) it is not designed for people with legs....I am a shade over 6'2" and found the D40 to be far superior in terms of comfort. Will it be less reliable....anyone's guess at this stage. Now with 10000km on the clock (and lots of extras on board - bar, winch, storage system, water tank, 2 x aux batteries, canopy, roof rack system, awning, bash plates aplenty, ARB air locker, and a few more things) I've got a pretty damn capable vehicle that is still cost me less than an SR5 with its tiny wheels and equally tiny cabin space.
My view of the world and don't expect anyone to agree with it really as always - each to their own.
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Follow Up By: rocco2010 - Monday, May 11, 2009 at 17:12

Monday, May 11, 2009 at 17:12
Hope you didn't think I was suggesting a postie bike as a substitiute for a hilux .. tho there is a mad bunch which tours outback queensland on them.

I reckon fleets and miners would get discounts we couldn't even dream of. Toyota Australia was once reputed to have a marketing budget nearly as big as Holden and Ford combined
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Reply By: Straydingo - Thursday, May 14, 2009 at 17:31

Thursday, May 14, 2009 at 17:31
thanks everyone for your comments

Cheers
Andrew
AnswerID: 364860

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